Preview Changes for Round 21 vs Richmond

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Petrenko = Cameron? Where's my stats suck thread?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Don't disagree here. I think we should absolutely be playing Cameron and I think his ceiling is much higher than Petrenko's.

It just interests me the hype around Charlie when his actual production this year is on par with Petrenko's. There is no doubting who will be better and who should get first crack. Its just I don't think, based on actual output, there is any difference in what they have brought to the Crows in 2014.

This is where stats lie ........look at stats and not much difference, watch the game and you see his pround effect

Interesting that IMO Petrenkos defensive actions are normally within 30 mtrs of goal wheras Charlie's defending right up to and past the wings ........Charlie is covering more ground and applying widespread defensive actions .......but he will be a super attacking player & this was notable even during the U18 championships

What i think surprises a bit for an indiginous player is he seems to not only have speed but also good endurance for a first year AFL player

That said it's still premature to right Petrenko off .......he really is not a bad player

 

[WaynesWorld19]

It was your suggestion that the Crows rest players.

Now that's idiotic?

So we can rest players... but also need a bye so that we only need to rest them once or twice... instead of two or three times.

Ok.

are we not resting Thompson and Rutten ???

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Nope. Its idiotic saying that we should model ourselves on a European Soccer League that is has so many differences to our game of AFL.

Absolutely. Whats wrong with having a bye and resting certain players if you need to? The game is so much faster and the impact on their bodies is more intense than ever before. I really believe that we should see 2-3 byes a year. The healthier our players - the better quality product we are going to get.

It can't be both.

Resting players as a valid method of getting them through the season in a fit and healthy state.... AND having byes so that we don't need to rest players from games.

You have byes if resting players is NOT valid. Ie resting Dangerfield from a game is unheard of, would destroy the spectacle, no one would watch, may as well shut the league down for a week.

The only reason there are byes is so that they can have weekends where the only games are in the prime tv spots. Then the same the next weekend. One round... two batches of prime television spots.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

are we not resting Thompson and Rutten ???

Yes.

Without a bye.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Yes.

Without a bye.

Unfortunately the byes stay (although only one in 2015) as part of collective agreement

Think resting will be more common and the push may come down the track for bigger lists ......or more flexible rookie/supplementary lists to allow clubs to rest more rather than shorten the # games per season

 

[AFC979810]

It can't be both.

Resting players as a valid method of getting them through the season in a fit and healthy state.... AND having byes so that we don't need to rest players from games.

You have byes if resting players is NOT valid. Ie resting Dangerfield from a game is unheard of, would destroy the spectacle, no one would watch, may as well shut the league down for a week.

The only reason there are byes is so that they can have weekends where the only games are in the prime tv spots. Then the same the next weekend. One round... two batches of prime television spots.

Why can't it be both? It is both right now. The notion that it can only be one or the other is a ridiculous notion.

Why not have 2 byes during the season (split rounds) so that all players get a rest. Have them after 8/9 games and after 17/18.

This keeps the AFL players as a whole healthier.

Then you can still have player management for special cases within this system. If Dangerfield has a run of games like rounds 1-3 where he got absolutely smashed - you can give him a rest against a team like St. Kilda. If you have a player like Sauce - who has no chance of winning his position (against Sandilands) and has to travel across the country - you keep him at home.

 

[1970crow]

Do a comparison of Butcher's 1st 9 games vs every KPF. It makes him look like a superstar. .. Oh wait the PAPs have done this already snd it's on the Bay.

Comparing needs to occur at more than one point. 5 games is a stupidly small sample size. We actually need to go back and watch the games before we say they are the same because Cameron has already shown poise. Perfectly weighted kicks, extracting the ball witch fancy footwork then delivering to the forwards. ...... after 50 games Petrenko was still shitting his pants at crucial times.

Fast tracking a 5 game player from the rookie draft straight back (sfter injury) into a side with form fluctuations shows the esteem which the coaches have of Cameron.

Yes there is hype. But there is reason for optimism. Let's enjoy the ride.

I thought the premise of the comparison was to illustrate that at the moment Charlie isn't adding that much more than pets in determining whether we win this game of football. I'm sure we all expect that to change as Charlie gets more games under his belt.

 

[Mattrox]

I thought the premise of the comparison was to illustrate that at the moment Charlie isn't adding that much more than pets in determining whether we win this game of football. I'm sure we all expect that to change as Charlie gets more games under his belt.

I would suggest that Cameron had a hand in the Collingwood victory.......

 

[Tex200]

Petrenko = Cameron? Where's my stats suck thread?

Will make a point of looking it up - I'm sure there will be a post in there on Kerridge's low stats sucking

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Couldn't agree more.

Charlie's hype far exceeds his actual output. Two player comparison:

Player A: 5 games. 6 goals. 7 behinds. 3 goal assists. 9 Inside 50's. 64.6% DE.Averages: 9.6 disposals, 1.4 marks, 3.4 tackles, 78.6% time on ground.
Player B: 5 games. 5 goals. 6 behinds. 2 goal assists. 13 inside 50's. 64.1%DE. Averages 12.8 disposals, 2 marks, 5 tackles. 79.1% time on ground.

Pretty identical statistics and both have 1.2 clangers a game (Sorry Mattrox I know you hate that stat).

Obviously one is Petrenko and the other is Cameron. Their impact on our team is the same. Based purely on performance Cameron = Petrenko.

Now I am not advocating dropping Cameron for Petrenko because Charlie has a much higher ceiling (especially considering the games above are his first 5 games at AFL level, whilst they are Petrenko's 72nd - 76th game).

So if a new player with plenty of upside is already matching the output of an experienced player - you pick the new player as no worse off now & better off in the future.

 

[hippyhippy]

Petrenko = Cameron? Where's my stats suck thread?

Well his shots for goal are no better. He does everything else better though.

 

[AFC979810]

So if a new player with plenty of upside is already matching the output of an experienced player - you pick the new player as no worse off now & better off in the future.

Not disagreeing.

 

[Golumless]

Couldn't agree more.

Charlie's hype far exceeds his actual output. Two player comparison:

Player A: 5 games. 6 goals. 7 behinds. 3 goal assists. 9 Inside 50's. 64.6% DE.Averages: 9.6 disposals, 1.4 marks, 3.4 tackles, 78.6% time on ground.
Player B: 5 games. 5 goals. 6 behinds. 2 goal assists. 13 inside 50's. 64.1%DE. Averages 12.8 disposals, 2 marks, 5 tackles. 79.1% time on ground.

Pretty identical statistics and both have 1.2 clangers a game (Sorry Mattrox I know you hate that stat).

Obviously one is Petrenko and the other is Cameron. Their impact on our team is the same. Based purely on performance Cameron = Petrenko.

Now I am not advocating dropping Cameron for Petrenko because Charlie has a much higher ceiling (especially considering the games above are his first 5 games at AFL level, whilst they are Petrenko's 72nd - 76th game).

See the hype is justified here because without any football background (think he only played 50 games prior to the draft) he has already matched the input Petrenko gave to this squad...

We all accept he has a massive ceiling but to already be comparable to the incumbent (who i accept is a C to B- small forward) is huge for an 18yr old rookie listed player...

 

[Golumless]

This is where stats lie ........look at stats and not much difference, watch the game and you see his pround effect

Interesting that IMO Petrenkos defensive actions are normally within 30 mtrs of goal wheras Charlie's defending right up to and past the wings ........Charlie is covering more ground and applying widespread defensive actions .......but he will be a super attacking player & this was notable even during the U18 championships

What i think surprises a bit for an indiginous player is he seems to not only have speed but also good endurance for a first year AFL player

That said it's still premature to right Petrenko off .......he really is not a bad player

He's a good lower team small forward, and is a good stop gap but doesn't have that extra gear to become a gun small forward sadly.

 

[King Elvis]

Not convinced we ever played Petrenko to his strengths; tried to fit him into a role instead.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Not convinced we ever played Petrenko to his strengths; tried to fit him into a role instead.

Skills just not up to afl standard imo.