Analysis Changes vs Swans 2/7/16

[Testekill]

Mate it's late - I agree that full strength we are competitive with anyone - I agree that we are weaker when Hrovat, Honey or Jong play as I don't particularly rate them and believe we are worse when they play as it means someone better is injured.

I just don't agree that it's impossible for us to win against decent teams if they play. Less likely to win yes.

We're weaker when they play because they're depth.

It's as bloody simple as that, it's not because them coming into the team instantly drags us down.

 

[Mattdougie]

We're weaker when they play because they're depth.

It's as bloody simple as that, it's not because them coming into the team instantly drags us down.

Ahh see my history of posting is used against me.

I was not in anyway mentioning idivodual players what I was sayin is my opinion is they are not good enough for depth players and need to be turned over.

Some think they are good enough I disagree and hope we turn several over at years end in an attempt to improve the list from the bottom up.

Every team has injures but some teams Depth players are capable of keeping the team at 80-90% of capacity, where as ours leave is aroind 60-70 IMO.

It's the drop off that concerns me I simply don't rate our depth players as others do.

And again this is not about one bloke

 

[TiAn_]

Ahh see my history of posting is used against me.

I was not in anyway mentioning idivodual players what I was sayin is my opinion is they are not good enough for depth players and need to be turned over.

Some think they are good enough I disagree and hope we turn several over at years end in an attempt to improve the list from the bottom up.

Every team has injures but some teams Depth players are capable of keeping the team at 80-90% of capacity, where as ours leave is aroind 60-70 IMO.

It's the drop off that concerns me I simply don't rate our depth players as others do.

And again this is not about one bloke

Our "depth" players all nearly all 22 and under; why on earth would we want to turn them over? See below.

They were prepared to draft Hamilton in the second round 18 months ago, he only turned 20 three months ago and he was just named emergency. He'll get at least another year or two.

Williams and Dunkley are playing seniors at 18 and 19; McLean and Daniel are going great guns at 20 and 19; Webb and Hamilton are 20 and Dale's 19; our KPD depth is Collins and Cordy, who have both played seniors, but are only 18 and 19. Hunter & Macrae are 21. Bont's 20. Even the players that feel like they've been around for ages like Jong and Hrovat are only 23 & 22. They're still a year or two away from hitting their peak.

As for depth players keeping a team at 90% performance, which team and players are you talking about and when? How many depth players were they playing? You'd struggle to find a team that has performed as well as we have with this many injuries for this long.

 

[maddog37]

Ahh see my history of posting is used against me.

I was not in anyway mentioning idivodual players what I was sayin is my opinion is they are not good enough for depth players and need to be turned over.

Some think they are good enough I disagree and hope we turn several over at years end in an attempt to improve the list from the bottom up.

Every team has injures but some teams Depth players are capable of keeping the team at 80-90% of capacity, where as ours leave is aroind 60-70 IMO.

It's the drop off that concerns me I simply don't rate our depth players as others do.

And again this is not about one bloke

I tend to agree. We need to get rid of a few honest, hard goer types and focus on better ball users. I feel we are out of whack with our mix. Without JJ and Murph this was clearly evident.

 

[Allan Shorty]

Our depth is great. Yeah key injuries but Very little dead wood. No one thinks we win the flag this year. We should be pleased with the list and where it's going.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Risk is players like Wood and JJ would of been turned over if we are too impatient/brutal with turn overs.

 

[Syrah]

I tend to agree. We need to get rid of a few honest, hard goer types and focus on better ball users. I feel we are out of whack with our mix. Without JJ and Murph this was clearly evident.

Webb fits this bill perfectly, but apparently we're trying to turn him into an inside mid.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Our depth is great. Yeah key injuries but Very little dead wood. No one thinks we win the flag this year. We should be pleased with the list and where it's going.

Before the cats game I thought we were as good a chance as any when we get some keys back. Now I am not as optimistic as the cats exposed several flaws some that will be fixed with Wood, JJ and Dahl some go deeper. Hold on I should be true to name and remain optimistic. We are still a chance this year.

 

[maddog37]

Webb fits this bill perfectly, but apparently we're trying to turn him into an inside mid.

I think we are more trying to turn him into a player that can win his own ball and increase his possession numbers accordingly. He has faded in and out of matches in the past.

 

[bresker]

The problem is that he doesnt offer more as a forward YET in my opinion.

I believe Tom does offer more than Roughy or Campbell. He 'looks' more like a forward. He knows where to go and what do to, even if he can't execute it.

Roughy never looks like a forward and Campbell is a big strong bloke with a booming boot who pops up with the odd goal.

Our structure looked way better with him in the forward line. When Redpath isn't available our attacking 50 frequently looks like the Nullabor Plain - showing the true worth of Roughy or Campbell as forwards.

 

[SlimShaddy]

Before the cats game I thought we were as good a chance as any when we get some keys back. Now I am not as optimistic as the cats exposed several flaws some that will be fixed with Wood, JJ and Dahl some go deeper. Hold on I should be true to name and remain optimistic. We are still a chance this year.

I think the Geelong coaches box exposed flaws in our coaches box.
Pound for pound I think our team is faster and tougher - especially with the players to return.
Collingwood and Carlton gave the everyone a blue print on how to play against Geelong.
That was completely ignored by our coaches box.

 

[Doggies_2008]

Our depth is great. Yeah key injuries but Very little dead wood. No one thinks we win the flag this year. We should be pleased with the list and where it's going.

100% this. 4 players with over 100 games experience and 12 players with 50 games and under(from the weekends game). I think we are going pretty damn well atm, so much improvement in so many players to come.

 

[Mattdougie]

Our "depth" players all nearly all 22 and under; why on earth would we want to turn them over? See below.



As for depth players keeping a team at 90% performance, which team and players are you talking about and when? How many depth players were they playing? You'd struggle to find a team that has performed as well as we have with this many injuries for this long.

I'm not going to name names but the reason we turn them over is coz they have all had 3-4 years and are still at best depth players.

 

[_Mike_]

I'm not going to name names but the reason we turn them over is coz they have all had 3-4 years and are still at best depth players.

It takes years to develop a standard of depth that some clubs have today and for that you'll need to go back to the drafting strategies in the 2000's to see how its paid off for teams such as Hawthorn, Sydney and Geelong. We were never going to be in a position that gives us depth without some pain of tweaking the list, letting some go and getting new blood. The main point is that it takes time to develop.

I'm all for turning over the players who cant reach the required standard however it should be noted that we have nowhere near the standard of depth yet to cover for more than 2 or 3 important/key players being out at a time. We need to have some faith in Dalrymple's drafting strategy who which he's done alright so far. It really hurt our situation in 2012/2013 when GWS were given so many concessions and top players and in a perfect world we've have a number of their current in form players on our list.

Unfortunately we're going to have to continue on the current trend until we're recognised as the "destination club" that the media is starting to call us and frankly, IMO that wont happen until we land a flag. Catch 22

 

[SayerTheCreator]

Anyone know if training sessions are open to the public this week or are they going easy with the bye?

 

[yebiga]

I think the Geelong coaches box exposed flaws in our coaches box.
Pound for pound I think our team is faster and tougher - especially with the players to return.
Collingwood and Carlton gave the everyone a blue print on how to play against Geelong.
That was completely ignored by our coaches box.

It's been said before
The loss of JJ and Murph has forced changes to the plan we had at round 1

What we did was to strengthen further a the mid field. When we win the mid field battle we win. North and geelong won that battle - we lost. They put enormous pressure on and got multiple goals from centre clearances.

The return of wood will strengthen defense
The return of JJ will increase scoring from defensive 50 rebounds and opposition turn overs. The return of Stevens should improve our entries into 50.

The way we play and the personnel we possess - JJ is crucial because of his pace he can significantly improve back half retention and line breaking run. The flow on effect is that suckling, Biggs and now Williams will have that little bit more time on a few more occasions to also deliver accurately into the forward 50.

At this point we are again contenders. But with a couple of shortcomings: conversion at goal has been poor and in September we will need a marking target like Boyd up and about.

If all these ducks line up - Dalhaus returns at full strength and we don't acquire new injuries we become a very real threat.

Finally, if a rampaging clay smith can also stay fit and deliver his best in September - in my mind we become the team to beat.

This premiership is there for the taking. Geelong, the Hawks and north are the teams to beat.

Our full strength team is more than a match. We have suffered from injury more than these contenders - this explains our ladder position . if the worm turns - dare to dream.

 

[Werewolf]

I believe Tom does offer more than Roughy or Campbell. He 'looks' more like a forward. He knows where to go and what do to, even if he can't execute it.

Roughy never looks like a forward and Campbell is a big strong bloke with a booming boot who pops up with the odd goal.

Our structure looked way better with him in the forward line. When Redpath isn't available our attacking 50 frequently looks like the Nullabor Plain - showing the true worth of Roughy or Campbell as forwards.

The problem is Campbell and Roughy are two players doing the work of one. Maybe one and a half. Ideally one would make way for Boyd so we'd lose nothing in the ruck and the forward line would gain some bite. Opposition defenders have carved us up in the last 3 losses.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I don't necessarily think that there's an issue with all 4 of our big blokes playing in the same team - how is it different to teams like North who play 1 ruck and 3 big blokes - but I do think the one area that we have to be concerned with is I don't think we can rest Campbell forward with Boyd also there, both are too immobile.

 

[compact72]

We counting on Stevens, Boyd and JJ playing for VFL?

 

[SlimShaddy]

Finally, if a rampaging clay smith can also stay fit and deliver his best in September - in my mind we become the team to beat.

I actually think this is critical as both Dahl and Clay as resting small forwards would make a significant difference there. More time for Dahl in the forward line would assist the team greatly.

Disclaimer* - Know nothing about coaching.

I agree with you but I think the coaches box are a bit slow to react at times. There really was no Plan B although I do acknowledge that the injuries have severely restricted what Plan B or Plan C would look like.

For example, it was clear from very early on that Geelong had done their homework and had a game plan to completely neutralise ours. Regardless of personnel, I personally thought it would have been apparent (given their age and lack of toughness compared to our players) that a one-on-one game plan around the ground would have given them something else to think about.

Third quarter was too late.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

It will be interesting to compare this year's team with last year's. Exclusions from last year: Hrovat, Smith, Talia , Toyd (maybe), Murphy , JJ, Dahlhaus, Crameri. Additions this year (pending selection changes): Liberatore, Adams, Dunkley, Honeychurch, Redpath, Campbell.

Feel free to add or subtract if I've overlooked someone.

No doubt Sydney will have a different line up as well.

Edit to this year: Suckling, Daniel...

 

[Next Waiting]

Do we know who the 5 fastest players on our list are? Straight line speed over say 20-50m. I'm guessing JJ is the fastest, but who is 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th?

 

[doggies ftw]

Do we know who the 5 fastest players on our list are? Straight line speed over say 20-50m. I'm guessing JJ is the fastest, but who is 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th?

Think it was JJ last year who said Hamling is right up there. Jong and definitely Stringer would be up there too

 

[Next Waiting]

Think it was JJ last year who said Hamling is right up there. Jong and definitely Stringer would be up there too

I had Jong and Stringer pencilled in but not sure. Wood, Dahl and Murphy also pencilled in as being in the mix. Who are the fastest of the young players (last 2-3 drafts)?

 

[hatescaptcha]

Do we know who the 5 fastest players on our list are? Straight line speed over say 20-50m. I'm guessing JJ is the fastest, but who is 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th?

You'd think Brad Lynch would be up there, super quick.