Changes vs The Crows

[Doggies_13]

I respectfully disagree. Redpath actively contributed to us almost losing the game. Cordy has been a non entity.

Agree to disagree then as Redpath could easily have had 3 goals

 

[immortalmike]

Agree to disagree then as Redpath could easily have had 3 goals

And McGovern could easily have won them the game. Playing forward is about more than kicking goals. He was also actively involved in losing us the game on Saturday even after Spangher was injured.

At this point it's a choice between being punched in the face or kicked in the balls. I'm not sure why people are so strong about wanting either.

 

[Doggies_13]

And McGovern could easily have won them the game. Playing forward is about more than kicking goals. He was also actively involved in losing us the game on Saturday even after Spangher was injured.

At this point it's a choice between being punched in the face or kicked in the balls. I'm not sure why people are so strong about wanting either.

Cordy offers no contest what so ever, McGovern toweled up Redpath who has played all of 4 games, McGovern is a good player, would have down just as much vs Cordy or worse, Rance did the same to Boyd, You can learn to limit your opponent and to defend better you can't be taught to attack the ball contest and want to impact that is the difference between Cordy and Redpath

 

[TempleKelvington]

I've always been a fan of continuity, don't like dropping players after one or two games, especially if there's no apparent replacement.

Yeah I agree here. If someone else was knocking the door down then sure. Big red was unlucky to be dropped after just one poor game, but to drop Cordy in similar fashion does not make sense when big Red was just ok on the weekend, that said I like him, I think he will come back very soon. I think we need to give the big guys every chance though. Confidence is a big thing, in one week out the next will destroy confidence, Cordy is lacking in confidence, the coach needs to show he has confidence in him.

We played one of the best sides in the comp with players out before the game and then 2 short for most of the game, yet we want wholesale changes and I warned people not to overeact to the hawthorn game even before it was played.

We need to hold the course, Adelaide whilst a decent outfit ain't Hawthorn, we have a chance this week, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[lachy]

Hamling for Morris
Bonts for Wallis
Wood for Goodes if all are good to go

Cordy will never make it, wasting time trying. Between now and the end of the year he only plays if he can dominate a couple of VFL games in a row. Campbell only comes in if Wil is out. Need to look at more 2nd ruck options next trade and draft period.

Red to come in for 3 or 4 games in a row to see how he goes. Personally don't see it but here's hoping. Have more confidence with Roberts but needs a few more games in the VFL.

Players on notice, Hrovat, Stevens and Grant
Possible replacements over the next few weeks Smith, Hunter, Darley, Wallis

 

[Leezorr]

Prudden was the emergency so I think he might come in for Wally
Hamling was excellent in the VFL
Bonts, Wood and Moyd all automatic if fit for mine.

Outs, Wallis, Morris, Goodes, Cordy, Stevens.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

This is why we keep Cordy:
Priorities, in order for our second forward/second ruck role
1. Ability to give Will a chopout
2. Ability to hold a team structure by leading up the wings, providing a target and ensuring that the opposition defence doesn't get intercept possessions and runs off his man. Also the ability to have the fitness to run out a full game.
3. The ability to directly impact on the game themselves through their own marking and goal-kicking

Ayce is better than anybody on our list at number 2, is probably about equal with Campbell at number 1 and much better than Redpath at number 1, and he's only worse than Campbell and Redpath at number 3. Sure, Campbell might take a contested grab or two in the first half, but what good is that when he's buggered by the second half because he still doesn't have the fitness base, an't get to contests and his opponent is running off him and getting forward at every opportunity like a soccer wing back? (Roberts who could potentially go forward is left out for the argument's sake) We need a tall bloke who can be a second ruck and can run for the whole game and keep the defender accountable (gee, how footy is changed when back int he old days it was the defender's job to keep the forward accountable). Any direct involvement in the play is actually a bonus. And anybody saying that we should not play Cordy, but not bring in either Campbell or Redpath, is being bloody ridiculous and we will just bring up the same problem of 2014 by running Will into the ground, and then having a woefully undersized forward line where Boyd will get triple teamed when he's not having to chop out in the ruck.

So ergo, Cordy stays, until Campbell and Redpath demonstrate that they can have accountability and fitness in a whole game.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

2. Ability to hold a team structure by leading up the wings, providing a target and ensuring that the opposition defence doesn't get intercept possessions and runs off his man. Also the ability to have the fitness to run out a full game.

Ayce is better than anybody on our list at number 2, is probably about equal with Campbell at number 1 and much better than Redpath at number 1, and he's only worse than Campbell and Redpath at number 3.

I agree with the sentiment of the post but I can't agree with the bolded at all. One of Cordy's biggest problems at the moment is that he's not presenting at all. He's not trying to get involved in the play. He does nothing to get involved - doesn't win contested ball, doesn't win uncontested ball, doesn't put himself in clever positions for outlets, doesn't generate overlap run, doesn't present at the ball carrier, doesn't draw the ball inside 50...in fact, he runs away from the ball when the ball carrier is looking for an option. He's done it a lot.

If Cordy was doing as you say and offering that lead up the wings there would not even be a debate - he'd be in the side. But he's not getting involved at all.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I agree with the sentiment of the post but I can't agree with the bolded at all. One of Cordy's biggest problems at the moment is that he's not presenting at all. He's not trying to get involved in the play. He does nothing to get involved - doesn't win contested ball, doesn't win uncontested ball, doesn't put himself in clever positions for outlets, doesn't generate overlap run, doesn't present at the ball carrier, doesn't draw the ball inside 50...in fact, he runs away from the ball when the ball carrier is looking for an option. He's done it a lot.

If Cordy was doing as you say and offering that lead up the wings there would not even be a debate - he'd be in the side. But he's not getting involved at all.

Maybe that be the case, but it's still better than what I believe Campbell could offer, which some people are calling for him to be included. I don't mind Campbell's tapwork, and his contested marking offers something that we don't have apart from Boyd himself in our team, but the fact of the matter is that if you think Cordy's lack of presenting and involvement is bad, wait to you see Campbell. Campbell just doesn't have the fitness and mobility to be involved in the play and just simply move around the ground, and doesn't do any of those things you said either. How many times have you seen Campbell take a lead-up mark? Cordy might be a dud that doesn't get involved in the play, but he's a 204cm dud who has the athleticism and mobility to actually stop his opponent running off him and get to ruck contests, and the fitness base to play a full 4 quarters.

 

[BRWB]

Maybe that be the case, but it's still better than what I believe Campbell could offer, which some people are calling for him to be included. I don't mind Campbell's tapwork, and his contested marking offers something that we don't have apart from Boyd himself in our team, but the fact of the matter is that if you think Cordy's lack of presenting and involvement is bad, wait to you see Campbell. Campbell just doesn't have the fitness and mobility to be involved in the play and just simply move around the ground, and doesn't do any of those things you said either. How many times have you seen Campbell take a lead-up mark? Cordy might be a dud that doesn't get involved in the play, but he's a 204cm dud who has the athleticism and mobility to actually stop his opponent running off him and get to ruck contests, and the fitness base to play a full 4 quarters.

So in your view Cordy's a dud. Good to know. Cordy's 'performance' has redefined 'dud' and not in a good way. In two games he has got a total of 10 hitouts, 0 kicks, 0 marks, 4 handballs, 4 frees against, plus clangers, costs us goals, and doesn't even compete. Measured ABC commentators described him as having 'no idea'.

But as long as he turns up and runs around a bit he stays? What an awesome job description. Sign me up.

 

[Palace03]

Ins: Wood, boyd, Bonti, Redpath

Out: Moris, Wallis, Goodes, Cordy

Roughead on Walker, Talia on Jenkins and Wood on Lynch.

Goodes and Cordy aren't up to it and can go back. Roberts sounds like he needs a couple more in the VFL so Redpath comes back instead.

 

[womble54]

Ummmm. I kinda want Cordy's head. He has had his chances and it didn't work. Fair play to everyone who gave him a crack. But here's the thing on reflection. We are desperately, desperately short on hard bodies. I don't want to play him but he at least has the benefit of 6 of his 8 years on the field hardening his body up. Likewise Goodes. He's no superstar but he's a 30 year old hammerable body we should think about throwing in the middle. Bonti and Honeychurch injuries again smack abit of still light bodies getting a touch up and tiring. It's going to happen to Toyd as well this season. The list is clearly not where we need it yet albeit you can see some excellent talent is there. We need to find a way to get some of these young blokes through the season without getting them completely smashed up. It's frustrating cos some of our older bodies are really not upto it but this is a trickier balancing act than just playing our best 22 every week. On reflection they just wouldn't last playing every week. Interesting season.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

So in your view Cordy's a dud. Good to know, his performance has redefined 'dud' and not in a good way. In two games he has got a total of 10 hitouts, 0 kicks, 0 marks, 4 handballs, 4 frees against, plus clangers, costs us goals, and doesn't even compete. Measured ABC commentators described him as having 'no idea'.

But as long as he turns up and runs around a bit he stays? What an awesome job description. Sign me up.

I would rather a player have a net zero impact on the game in Cordy's case rather than somebody else, like Campbell or Redpath, having a net negative impact on the game. Redpath because he can't ruck, forcing Boyd to ruck which we don't ruck, and Campbell who can't make his defender accountable nor have the fitness to run out a game.

Campbell and Redpath might take marks and kick goals. Let's give them an arbitrary net positive impact rating of +2. But their weaknesses that I listed above result in -3 negative impact, giving them a net impact rating of -1.

And in Cordy's case, he can just turn up and run around for a bit. Are you 204cm and have fitness, agility and athleticism to run out an entire AFL game? That's what being that size can do for you.

Futhermore the "6 years on a list to prove a point" or whatever argument is bloody stupid. He pretty much has four injury interrupted years, the first which came in his under 18 year. I may not be 100% correct, but 2014 was the first season in his entire career that he had no injury setbacks or injury management of any sort.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Maybe that be the case, but it's still better than what I believe Campbell could offer, which some people are calling for him to be included. I don't mind Campbell's tapwork, and his contested marking offers something that we don't have apart from Boyd himself in our team, but the fact of the matter is that if you think Cordy's lack of presenting and involvement is bad, wait to you see Campbell. Campbell just doesn't have the fitness and mobility to be involved in the play and just simply move around the ground, and doesn't do any of those things you said either. How many times have you seen Campbell take a lead-up mark? Cordy might be a dud that doesn't get involved in the play, but he's a 204cm dud who has the athleticism and mobility to actually stop his opponent running off him and get to ruck contests, and the fitness base to play a full 4 quarters.

Rarely - but I've seen him draw the football a lot more than Cordy has at AFL level. He doesn't create separation and doesn't often take the mark but he draws the ball and at least provides a bit of an option. Better than a clear turnover as happened numerous times on the weekend where Cordy didn't bother to present.

I'm not advocating bringing Campbell in - for mine there are six potential options here, and bringing Campbell in would be my least preferred of all of them. I can't see any way a forward line of Boyd and Campbell works, and I'm not confident in either of them's ability to run out a full game. My point is simply that, while there are positives of having Cordy over Redpath, I don't believe that #2 is one of them. Cordy's much more mobile than Campbell but Tom uses his limited athleticism more cleverly than Ayce uses his.

 

[BRWB]

I would rather a player have a net zero impact on the game in Cordy's case rather than somebody else, like Campbell or Redpath, having a net negative impact on the game. Redpath because he can't ruck, forcing Boyd to ruck which we don't ruck, and Campbell who can't make his defender accountable nor have the fitness to run out a game.

Campbell and Redpath might take marks and kick goals. Let's give them an arbitrary net positive impact rating of +2. But their weaknesses that I listed above result in -3 negative impact, giving them a net impact rating of -1.

And in Cordy's case, he can just turn up and run around for a bit. Are you 204cm and have fitness, agility and athleticism to run out an entire AFL game? That's what being that size can do for you.

Futhermore the "6 years on a list to prove a point" or whatever argument is bloody stupid. He pretty much has four injury interrupted years, the first which came in his under 18 year. I may not be 100% correct, but 2014 was the first season in his entire career that he had no injury setbacks or injury management of any sort.

So not injury interrupted and he turns out these performances? Wow.

Against the Hawks he had two handballs and two clangers and 1FA, as far as I can see that's a negative 'nett' effect.

Against Richmond he had 2 handballs, 3 clangers, 3 frees against.

I am just amazed that anyone can support his place in the team. Amazed.

But hey, he may get a game...who knows...you may be proven right. Can't say I can ever agree.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Rarely - but I've seen him draw the football a lot more than Cordy has at AFL level. He doesn't create separation and doesn't often take the mark but he draws the ball and at least provides a bit of an option. Better than a clear turnover as happened numerous times on the weekend where Cordy didn't bother to present.

I'm not advocating bringing Campbell in - for mine there are six potential options here, and bringing Campbell in would be my least preferred of all of them. I can't see any way a forward line of Boyd and Campbell works, and I'm not confident in either of them's ability to run out a full game. My point is simply that, while there are positives of having Cordy over Redpath, I don't believe that #2 is one of them. Cordy's much more mobile than Campbell but Tom uses his limited athleticism more cleverly than Ayce uses his.

That's a fair enough point.

But people are also not giving Ayce enough credit for half-decent tapwork in which he allows Minson to be somewhere near his AA form again - something that nobody else on our list could provide.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

So not injury interrupted and he turns out these performances? Wow.

Against the Hawks he had two handballs and two clangers and 1FA, as far as I can see that's a negative 'nett' effect.

Against Richmond he had 2 handballs, 3 clangers, 3 frees against.

I am just amazed that anyone can support his place in the team. Amazed.

But hey, he may get a game...who knows...you may be proven right. Can't say I can ever agree.

Jeremy McGovern was BOG against us because of Redpath's inability to be defensively accountable. I'd call that a greater net negative than anything of Cordy's in the last two games.

 

[adam10]

Out: Wallis (inj), Morris (inj), Cordy, Goodes
In: Moyd, Bonti, Redpath, Hamling

Honeychurch not fit Hunter comes straight in
Wood fit he'll come in for Koby

Webb Roughead Hamling
Murphy Talia JJ
Stevens Jong Macrae
Dahlhaus Redpath Dickson
Stringer T.Boyd Crameri

Minson, Bonti, M.Boyd

Picken, Hrovat, Grant | Honeychurch

Goodes, Hunter, Cordy

Stevens and Redpath given another big chance to impress but for me they are on the chopping board because they are the type of players who really get found out against good teams. Really looking forward to Clay and Hunter coming into this team over the next few weeks.

 

[BRWB]

That's a fair enough point.

But people are also not giving Ayce enough credit for half-decent tapwork in which he allows Minson to be somewhere near his AA form again - something that nobody else on our list could provide.

Hodge and Lewis had as many taps as Ayce...

 

[BRWB]

Jeremy McGovern was BOG against us because of Redpath's inability to be defensively accountable. I'd call that a greater net negative than anything of Cordy's in the last two games.

And do you hear me singing the praises of Redpath?

No, we just have a fundamental difference. I think we can afford to use Boyd to give Minson a chop out. Meaning we don't play any of our substandard 2nd rucks/CHFs. You don't. No worries...

 

[threenewpadlocks]

And do you hear me singing the praises of Redpath?

No, we just have a fundamental difference. I think we can afford to use Boyd to give Minson a chop out. Meaning we don't play any of our substandard 2nd rucks/CHFs. You don't. No worries...

So if we drop Cordy but don't bring any big forward to replace him, we isolate a young, developing key forward as the only main key forward target (against Adelaide who have plenty of big defenders like Talia, Hartigan and the like), and once he's had enough of that, force him to ruck. Meanwhile we run Will Minson into the ground because he's having to ruck 10% more of the game anyway, ensuring that the strong last quarters of rucking Big Will has managed in the season so far disappear. Did I mention that we'd have a woefully undersized forward line, meaning that Stringer, crameri, and Dickson are now less likely to kick goals as the structure of the forward line has fallen away? Bev isn't McCartney, he won't do that.

 

[BRWB]

So if we drop Cordy but don't bring any big forward to replace him, we isolate a young, developing key forward as the only main key forward target (against Adelaide who have plenty of big defenders like Talia, Hartigan and the like), and once he's had enough of that, force him to ruck. Meanwhile we run Will Minson into the ground because he's having to ruck 10% more of the game anyway, ensuring that the strong last quarters of rucking Big Will has managed in the season so far disappear. Did I mention that we'd have a woefully undersized forward line, meaning that Stringer, crameri, and Dickson are now less likely to kick goals as the structure of the forward line has fallen away? Bev isn't McCartney, he won't do that.

We'll see I guess. Eade went with smaller fwd lines and got us to a prelim...

 

[yebiga]

If Cordy plays this week it will be an exercise in cruelty.
Our own supporters will boo him and rightly so. It is a past a joke.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

We'll see I guess. Eade went with smaller fwd lines and got us to a prelim...

In a era with a different completely different tactical landscape.

 

[BRWB]

In a era with a different completely different tactical landscape.

And Bev keeps saying he'll shape his gameplan to his personnel. Be interesting to see what he does. See you Thursday night