Politics Coalition MPs want school chaplains to ''help'' the mental health of kids re: climate change

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FredLeDeux

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Let's be clear I am advocating for Chaplains in schools and Christianity to be taught to kids with the parents having the option of pulling them out. Nothing more.
That's bad enough, but if they must impose religion or other non-ediucational topics in schools, it should strictly be opt in, not opt out.
 

Cursed Cat

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That's bad enough, but if they must impose religion or other non-ediucational topics in schools, it should strictly be opt in, not opt out.
Yes.

And as I have mentioned upthread; in QLD at least a situation has been set up in which RE is set up as the 'Norm', and to opt out of the class is to rock the boat a little bit, or to be a recalcitrant of some kind.

Make your kids go to Sunday schools etc if you must; but to impose this stuff on primary school kids is inappropriate in a society which is more nuanced and varied in it's spiritual views.
 

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Boronia67

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But why only Christianity? Why not Islam? Why not Satanism?

It's been established that Satanists want their kids to learn their religion - why should only Christians be taught in schools?


As has been mentioned in this thread, there are Sunday Schools where you can have your kid taught Christianity (although I do like the idea of no child being taught religion until they have the mental capacity to understand what they are being taught having gone through it myself).

BTW - your post wasn't just about Christianity being taught in schools. You very clearly outlined a position that you believe a society should function on the basis of everyone following the same religion
I was responding to a post that asked me about the benefits of a homogeneous society and how that can be achieved .

Teaching kids at school the very basics of Christianity is just one way to achieve a homogeneous society.

To have a homogeneous society requires a level of integration were people are encouraged to fit into mainstream society. Christianity is the most popular religion in Australia, it has played the greatest role in shaping our history and it would be the religion most Australians are comfortable having taught to their kids.
 

Rusty Brookes

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I was responding to a post that asked me about the benefits of a homogeneous society and how that can be achieved .

Teaching kids at school the very basics of Christianity is just one way to achieve a homogeneous society.

To have a homogeneous society requires a level of integration were people are encouraged to fit into mainstream society. Christianity is the most popular religion in Australia, it has played the greatest role in shaping our history and it would be the religion most Australians are comfortable having taught to their kids.
Fair enough but I reckon we might have to agree to disagree. I don't think teaching kids the basics of Christianity does anything more than give one religion a chance to get converts versus another. We already have a set of rules and values that underpins our society - this is enshrined in our constitution and the laws of our land.

Many of the great achievements in human endeavor have been due to people that went against the status quo. The Wright brothers refused the accepted wisdom that nothing heavier than a bird could ever fly. The physicians that realised that disease could be caused by an invisible agent (the germ theory of disease) went against accepted wisdom regarding illness. Copernicus, Galileo, Tycho who all were able to show that the Earth revolves around the sun and not the other way round. Questioning the homogeny has lead to humankind progressing.

I think the more views we have, the better we can be as a society. That does not mean all views should be considered equal but approaching issues from different points of view helps progress societies IMHO.
 

Chief Ten Beers

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This eco warrior fear mongering is not new, remember growing up in school being told about the ozone hole being dangerous on a daily basis in primary school by teachers.
 

FredLeDeux

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I was responding to a post that asked me about the benefits of a homogeneous society and how that can be achieved .

Teaching kids at school the very basics of Christianity is just one way to achieve a homogeneous society.

To have a homogeneous society requires a level of integration were people are encouraged to fit into mainstream society. Christianity is the most popular religion in Australia, it has played the greatest role in shaping our history and it would be the religion most Australians are comfortable having taught to their kids.
Given the current religious, non-religious, political and cultural diversity of Australia, teaching christianity in schools would not create an homogenous society; on the contrary, it would irreparably destroy the possibility of any potential homogeneity for ever.

I mean, do you seriously think that atheists, agnostics, muslims, buddhists, hindus, etc, etc are just going to calmly roll over and agree to their kids being indoctrinated in an alien religion, and Kumbaya!?

Moreover, some of us are old enough to remember when Australia was actually a predominately "christian" country, but one of, if not the, most socially and politically divisive forces in the land was religion and the sectarianism which permeated almost every social institution, right up to and including parliament. In other words, we've tried it, and it didn't work.
 
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CM86

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A homogeneous society means we are united as one nation rather than divided into separate tribes often conflicting with one and other.

The benefits are many including facing challenges as one, the ability to get along with each other, more civil elections and political discore, people tend to donate more time and money to charitable causes, less crime, less need for government regulation and greater individual freedom.

A simple shared set of social norms and values that bind us together is the right approach. Skin colour is not relevant.

The covid-19 outbreak is a good example of how a lack of cohesiveness can cause trouble. Case numbers are much higher in areas that could be described as ethnic enclaves in Melbourne and Sydney. Than because we are not all on the same page government regulation via lockdowns is required to tackle the virus

Another example is how we tackle climate change. We just can not come close to an agreement.

I would also suggest Its very hard to have a civil political discussion in this country involving people with diverse viewpoints.

The predominant religion in this country is Christianity and it has played a greater role than any other religion in shaping our history.

You can bind people through other avenues by all means. Christianity tho is an effective tool. You get a set of values from one clear source of authority.
In my opinion, people have been using religion and religious beliefs to push political and social agendas. And that there are many challenging issues, currently, that are connected to religion, or hidden behind religious beliefs.


You bring up COVID-19. Religion and/or religious belief has caused some division due to people believing their God will save them, or that it is their God's will. People have said that if it's their time, it's their time. God knows best. etc.
So that is in direct opposition to the 1st of your two examples.

Tackling climate change. There has been generations of religion attempting to discredit science. I don't believe there are many people genuinely believing they need to oppose a reduction in pollution due to their religious beliefs. But there are a number of people hiding behind religion to push an anti-science political/social movement.


Which part of Christianity do you want to see enforced? Catholicism?

Why do you want this to be Governmentally regulated, while arguing to decrease regulations?

When has Australia ever had an "homogeneous society", and when would you argue it was an improvement over what we've had over the last 20 years?

What is an ethnic enclave?

Why did you bring up skin colour?
 

CM86

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This eco warrior fear mongering is not new, remember growing up in school being told about the ozone hole being dangerous on a daily basis in primary school by teachers.
The problem with educating, teaching, looking for solutions, and fixing the problem... Is that then, certain people, don't believe it was ever a problem. Especially if it's complicated and vested interests push against it.

Smoking is an example.

It's the same with the Y2K.
It was a serious problem, a lot was done ahead of time to fix the problem. It didn't end up as a worse case scenario. So now certain people believe it was all made up.

Primary schools teach about the importance of recycling.
We find out that there are some public and private groups have cut corners, and recycling is just being dumped in landfill with the other rubbish.
Now people don't believe in recycling.
 

Rusty Brookes

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This eco warrior fear mongering is not new, remember growing up in school being told about the ozone hole being dangerous on a daily basis in primary school by teachers.
Take it for what it's worth

 

Pie eyed

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I was responding to a post that asked me about the benefits of a homogeneous society and how that can be achieved .

Teaching kids at school the very basics of Christianity is just one way to achieve a homogeneous society.

To have a homogeneous society requires a level of integration were people are encouraged to fit into mainstream society. Christianity is the most popular religion in Australia, it has played the greatest role in shaping our history and it would be the religion most Australians are comfortable having taught to their kids.
Why should religion be taught at all in schools?
I have no issue with religion, covering all versions, being dealt with in a historical sense.
Definitely not in the sense that any religion is factual or on the basis that is a way one should lead ones life.
 

LiquidCrow

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I have my own biases, so I may read into things.
But I believe the main concern is pushing an anti-climate science/pro-fossil fuel agenda, rather than these leaders and groups having any real concern about the mental health of children.

It is actually just virtue signalling.

Putting more funding into mental health would be the most obvious and genuine first step.
It's such a bizarre policy direction and I really fail to see the connection between climate change and chaplains. If mental health in kids is such a concern, then additional funding for psychologists and social workers in schools makes a lot more sense.
 

Boronia67

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Given the current religious, non-religious, political and cultural diversity of Australia, teaching christianity in schools would not create an homogenous society; on the contrary, it would irreparably destroy the possibility of any potential homogeneity for ever.

I mean, do you seriously think that atheists, agnostics, muslims, buddhists, hindus, etc, etc are just going to calmly roll over and agree to their kids being indoctrinated in an alien religion, and Kumbaya!?

Moreover, some of us are old enough to remember when Australia was actually a predominately "christian" country, but one of, if not the, most socially and politically divisive forces in the land was religion and the sectarianism which permeated almost every social institution, right up to and including parliament. In other words, we've tried it, and it didn't work.
Parents who don't want there kids taught Christianity have the option of saying no.

I am not advocating we have the churches running government and all aspects of society far from it. What I am advocating for is kids in primary School have a 30 minute lesson in Christianity every 2nd week like I had at a public school in the 90s in an outer eastern Melbourne suburb. Nothing more.
 

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Boronia67

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In my opinion, people have been using religion and religious beliefs to push political and social agendas. And that there are many challenging issues, currently, that are connected to religion, or hidden behind religious beliefs.


You bring up COVID-19. Religion and/or religious belief has caused some division due to people believing their God will save them, or that it is their God's will. People have said that if it's their time, it's their time. God knows best. etc.
So that is in direct opposition to the 1st of your two examples.

Tackling climate change. There has been generations of religion attempting to discredit science. I don't believe there are many people genuinely believing they need to oppose a reduction in pollution due to their religious beliefs. But there are a number of people hiding behind religion to push an anti-science political/social movement.


Which part of Christianity do you want to see enforced? Catholicism?

Why do you want this to be Governmentally regulated, while arguing to decrease regulations?

When has Australia ever had an "homogeneous society", and when would you argue it was an improvement over what we've had over the last 20 years?

What is an ethnic enclave?

Why did you bring up skin colour?
Australia is one of the greatest countries in the world and has been so for the past 100 years. Christianity has played a big role in this.

The new testament at its heart is about a man who came to serve the physical, emotional and spiritual needs of others while preaching the need for love, sharing, compassion and forgiveness.

The notion of service to others is something that should be taught in schools.


At a primary school level the domination would not be relevant. They would be teaching children's bible stories.

I wouldn't describe parents being given the option of having their child taught Christianity at school as government regulation.

An ethnic enclave is geographical area with a high ethnic concentration. What we unfortunately are seeing today in these areas is a large number of people with limited English proficiency who have next to no connection with people outside of their ethnicity.

Australia was not as divided 10 years ago as it is today. This new tribal identity politics and western grievance culture is a new trend.

I brought up skin colour because when conservatives talk about a homogeneous society they are often wrongly excused of racism.
 

FredLeDeux

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Parents who don't want there kids taught Christianity have the option of saying no.

I am not advocating we have the churches running government and all aspects of society far from it. What I am advocating for is kids in primary School have a 30 minute lesson in Christianity every 2nd week like I had at a public school in the 90s in an outer eastern Melbourne suburb. Nothing more.
You have it arse-about.
If they want it, it should be opt-in, not opt-out.
But, of course, it is highly divisive in the first place, and shouldn't even be contemplated in a society seeking to be homogenous.
 

CM86

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It's such a bizarre policy direction and I really fail to see the connection between climate change and chaplains. If mental health in kids is such a concern, then additional funding for psychologists and social workers in schools makes a lot more sense.
It's virtue signalling.

They're not talking about funding school nurses or school counsellors. They are talking about increasing funding for religious support workers, who must be " someone ordained, commissioned or endorsed by a recognised religious institution".
From December 2014, any schools with a secular welfare worker had fire them and replace them with a chaplain, or have no one at all.

And I wouldn't be surprised to find out that near 100% of them are Christian.
 

CM86

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Australia is one of the greatest countries in the world and has been so for the past 100 years. Christianity has played a big role in this.
I would argue that immigration and international trade have played a bigger role in the prosperity of Australia, overall, than Christianity has.
The new testament at its heart is about a man who came to serve the physical, emotional and spiritual needs of others while preaching the need for love, sharing, compassion and forgiveness.

The notion of service to others is something that should be taught in schools.
But why through the new testament? Why through religion?
Why can't these things be taught and learnt, without going through a prism of outdated and sometimes corrosive messages of the Bible?
The notion of service to others is something that should be taught in schools.
To me, that message opposes your position on an homogenous society.

At a primary school level the denomination would not be relevant. They would be teaching children's bible stories.
I've never seen a reasonable argument for ecumenism through schools.
I wouldn't describe parents being given the option of having their child taught Christianity at school as government regulation.
But that isn't what's happening, and it's not what this thread is about.
It's about expanding the existing National School Chaplaincy Programme, to be fully funded for every school.

This has been running it its current form for the last 7 years. (2014).
 

Better Loosen Up

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https://www.theguardian.com/austral...en-suffering-mentally-due-to-climate-activism


So now the LNP want to gaslight the nation's children?

This is abhorrent, one of the worst things this sh*tstain of a government could possibly have come up with.

What the fu** is a ******* chaplain going to tell them about climate science?

This government would like nothing better than to take society back to the Dark Ages, and sadly Australia's voting public will go along for the ride with their eyes screwed up tight.

Disgusting.

I can't believe that a Goddamned chaplaincy program is funded at all in this day and age - where's the outrage?
In a multi-cultural, multi-denominational Australian society how can reinforcing outdated, white-Australia-era policies pass muster?

I moved to Qld a few years ago now and was dismayed to learn that kids at my daughter's school were subject to Religious (read: Christian only) Instruction in this day and age - we had to opt out and were met with pious disappointment - fu** YOU.

Australia's youth are orders of magnitude more intelligent than our backwards politicians, thankfully the kids have the good sense to place their faith in scientific expertise rather than the whims of ******* Invisible Sky Fairies.

What a country we're turning into
Firstly, it is abhorrent that we continue to allow agenda driven organisations to feed our children with alarmist statements related to a completely politicised climate change science. Children are mostly incapable of critical thinking of such topics and will basically absorb what they are fed on face value. Exactly what these fanatical organisations want.

Secondly, why the heck would we be engaging chaplains to do the work of psychologists?
 

Better Loosen Up

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This eco warrior fear mongering is not new, remember growing up in school being told about the ozone hole being dangerous on a daily basis in primary school by teachers.
Yep, and at that stage in our lives, we never had the capability to research and question it. We just accepted what we were told.

Just like our kids today.
 

Gethelred

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Yep, and at that stage in our lives, we never had the capability to research and question it. We just accepted what we were told.

Just like our kids today.

Or, governments got together and agreed on the Montreal Protocol to regulate the control of the gasses which were depleting the Ozone layer, and it was highly effective in preventing further damage and the environment returned to equilibrium when those governments made commitments and stuck to them?

Nah. It was people terrorising their kids. Yep. That one.
 

Better Loosen Up

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Or, governments got together and agreed on the Montreal Protocol to regulate the control of the gasses which were depleting the Ozone layer, and it was highly effective in preventing further damage and the environment returned to equilibrium when those governments made commitments and stuck to them?

Nah. It was people terrorising their kids. Yep. That one.
We were certainly not subjected to the same alarmist crap we are constantly bombarded with today.

We continued to learn Maths, English etc rather than being encouraged to engage in political protest during school hours.
 

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