Collingwood misses out on Ball

[IluvHarvey]

funny how st kilda going around talking like they are premiers.

Where does this happen? Please show me

 

[Damon_3388]

all plausible

variable being that the Dees pick him anyway - who is their Captain?

Well in the scenario I laid out, Melbourne would be making fools of themselves by picking Ball, as he would have already made it perfectly clear a few weeks before the National Draft that he doesn't want to deal with and/or play with any club but Collingwood in 2010.

By the way, James McDonald was Melbourne's Captain in 2010, and their Vice Captain was Cameron Bruce. The rest of their 'Leadership Group' consisted of Brad Green, Brad Miller, Brent Moloney and the now-departed Brock McLean.

 

[Falchoon]

How good is your list?

King (31), Gardiner (31), Hayes (30), Blake (29) & Milne (30) played in your GF side. Your window isn't as open as you think it is (you just lost Hudgton & Ball for nothing), everything, injury wise went well for St. Kilda in 09, there is no sure thing that it will continue in 2010 & you have to replace your entire ruck dept in a period of zero picks & comprimised drafts. Have fun.

Ben McEvoy says hi

 

[The Panther]

Ben McEvoy says hi

1 player is going to be your ruck dept. ? Gardiner/King won't play after next year, have fun. Your window isn't open that much longer.

 

[KissStephanie]

I'm chuffed Collingwood supporters are lavishing such attention on a St Kilda depth player, if Morgoth hadn't been carded we'd almost have the full set of pies supporters in this thread.

St.Kilda are the experts of recruiting depth players from other clubs.

and all for a player "worth" a 3rd round pick.

Collingwood did not offer a third round pick at all.

Ben McEvoy says hi

St.Kilda are one of the oldest teams in the league. They used one first year player in 2009, and he played one match. They used three first year players in 2008, and none of them were good enough to play in the Grand Final, and only one of them played any finals. In 2007, they used only two first year players, and only one of them played in the Grand Final. That is not good for St.Kilda's future at all, and they certainly won't improve on 2009 in my opinion.

 

[CHBench]

It would definitely seem like it.St.Kilda obviously had no intention of doing what is right for themselves, otherwise they would have done that of course. What they wanted for an unrequired player that is out of contract was ridiculous. Pick #25 was definitely adequate under the circumstances.

Since when did having a 3 year contract sitting in front of you mean you're unrequired?

Your who? If you believe that my opinion is wrong, then prove it.

So you still believe St Kilda's sole intention was to screw over Ball? Mmk, common sense would prove you wrong.

What does that have to do with what happened today? He clearly doesn't have a good relationship with Ross Lyon, while it's quite clear that Lyon doesn't like him, so it was fair for him to wait until the end of the season to decide. A new contract is now no longer on offer.

Ross Lyon has made it clear if Ball wants to return to the club he can. There's a contract still there, or will be there. The original 3 year contract was recinded because we need to factor in the contracts of Lovett and Peake into the salary cap. He won't be on as much money as he was previously being offered.

I don't think anybody suggested that he should have been gift wrapped, so what are you on about? Collingwood offered to get a hold of pick #25, but St.Kilda rejected that as well. That was more than fair, and Francis Leach just stated on SEN that he can't figure out why that was not accepted, and he is a St.Kilda supporter.

Oh ok, i guess if Francis Leach said it was ok then it must be. Sending a player to a fellow top 4 side who the Pies have been screaming out for, for a useless 2nd round pick we didn't even want in the first place = gift wrapping. Why make another top team stronger, while we get weaker?

Oh please. They haven't offered him $500,000 at all! St.Kilda does not want Luke Ball, otherwise a new contract would be offered, but it has in fact been withdrawn. There isn't any current offer from St.Kilda for Luke Ball, let alone one for $500,000 per year!

Collingwood offered Ball 500k, not St Kilda. Obviously Collingwood rate him higher than a mid 2nd round, they tried to call our bluff and failed. Like countless times before.

Ross Lyon clearly has shown during the season that he has little faith in Ball, and now he still treats him like shit. He is obviously still bitter from throwing away a Grand Final. Respect and credit to Geelong of course, but Lyon is responsible for that loss in my opinion.

Played 3 of our most important games of the year, naughty Lyon has no faith at all. How dare he.

Collingwood supporters should direct their angst towards their honchos, not Lyon. There's a reason so many players have slipped through their fingers at the trade table. I'd be pissed too, with the addition of Ball + Jolly you guys would've propelled to be a genuine premiership chance, perhaps even outright favourites.

 

[Falchoon]

That is not good for St.Kilda's future at all, and they certainly won't improve on 2009 in my opinion.

Well if we can stop the other teams getting better we won't need to.

 

[KissStephanie]

I paraphrased. And perhaps even hyperbolised. But I never quoted you. But the thrust of your posts prior to the QF was we were crap, and you'd pants us. That was a long way off the mark; like the majority of your posts about us.

You mis-quoted me the first time, and now you've just done it again! I stopped reading you post right here because I did not say any such thing!!!!! I asked you not to mis-quote me and make things up to suit yourself, and then you go and do it again!!! You are now on my ignore list understandably and I will not be reading anymore of your posts,

Well if we can stop the other teams getting better we won't need to.

I happen to think that younger teams will just naturally get better with experience, and I don't think St.Kilda will be able to do too much about that.

 

[Falchoon]

I happen to think that younger teams will just naturally get better with experience, and I don't think St.Kilda will be able to do too much about that.

aren't we younger than the Doggies and Geelong? who else is a threat?

 

[TomBolt]

He wasn't considered to be even remotely enough by St. Kilda. He was, in fact, offered to North Melbourne for #25 to trade on to the Saints, and when that was agreed to by North, even that pick wasn't considered to be enough.

Ditto with Goldsack and #30 being offered, in order to gain a pick for St. Kilda to offer to the Dogs for Everitt

I really rate Wellingham too, I'm glad he wasn't involved in a trade for Luke Ball, but I'm disappointed the trade didn't happen. I feel really sorry for Ball, in particular.

I second that emotion

 

[Falchoon]

Kosi ran into LRT and knocked himself out?

babow

 

[KennyHunter9]

I don't get were all this hate is coming from. It is a trade ffs, St Kilda obviously thought that Ball was worth more than Collingwood wanted to offer. Collingwood fans may think that St Kilda were playing hard ball but this is all based of opinions and what you think Ball is worth.

And Stephanie, please leave your opinions about other clubs to yourself as you obviously have no idea. I think the St Kilda football club would be very happy with the position they are in at the moment list wise. We just lost a Grand Final by 12 points to one of the best teams ever when pretty much our whole team had a bad game, so I would say we have a lot still to improve on for next year.

Lovett will make a big difference.

 

[Hahndozer]

Well in the scenario I laid out, Melbourne would be making fools of themselves by picking Ball, as he would have already made it perfectly clear a few weeks before the National Draft that he doesn't want to deal with and/or play with any club but Collingwood in 2010.

By the way, James McDonald was Melbourne's Captain in 2010, and their Vice Captain was Cameron Bruce. The rest of their 'Leadership Group' consisted of Brad Green, Brad Miller, Brent Moloney and the now-departed Brock McLean.

Jade Rawlings made it pretty clear he wanted to play with the kangaroos when he left Hawthorn. Ended up playing with the dogs, albeit poorly.

 

[KennyHunter9]

Why don't you direct the flood of Carlton supporters threatening to tear up their memberships in the same direction?
When the trade went through the most common question from Carlton supporters was "who is Lachlan Henderson "

You lost an 80 goal, Coleman medalist who was "a Blue for life" for a 15 gamer and a late first rounder Mind telling me what Collingwood lost today?



We beat you by 50 points and you kicked 4 goals when you HAD Fevola. How do you think it is gonna end this year with Kreuzer o) at FF, especially now we have Jolly?

You cite me an incident where you guys did well at the trade table and I'll give you 5 back where you ****ed up. Blotched another drafting attempt? Really? I know you don't want to go down the path of comparing Hughes' drafting to ours? You surely wouldn't be that stupid...

So glad I am a Carlton supporter. All this venom will shorten your life - and that's a desperate concern given how long away the Pies next flag it. Jolly will make a difference, but not the difference.

What a contrast today was for Carlton and Collingwood. Collingwood with just one relatively deal to get done, with a willing player but unwilling to sweeten a clearly inadequate pick 25. Carlton with some seriously heavy lifting with all the media attention and Bradshaw's fitness and Risha's interest questionable. Carlton get a 200 game CHF and pick 12. Carlton also explain in no uncertain terms why we will succeed and Collingwood will not. It's called making tough decisions. Tough decisions about discipline and lists. When Swanny said Fev was on his last warning, he meant it. Pity Collingwood couldn't be just as tough on Dids. Culture - you gotta make the tough decisions.

 

[Invigoration]

So glad I am a Carlton supporter. All this venom will shorten your life - and that's a desperate concern given how long away the Pies next flag it. Jolly will make a difference, but not the difference.

What a contrast today was for Carlton and Collingwood. Collingwood with just one relatively deal to get done, with a willing player but unwilling to sweeten a clearly inadequate pick 25. Carlton with some seriously heavy lifting with all the media attention and Bradshaw's fitness and Risha's interest questionable. Carlton get a 200 game CHF and pick 12. Carlton also explain in no uncertain terms why we will succeed and Collingwood will not. It's called making tough decisions. Tough decisions about discipline and lists. When Swanny said Fev was on his last warning, he meant it. Pity Collingwood couldn't be just as tough on Dids. Culture - you gotta make the tough decisions.

Time to call up SEN again and threaten to rip up your membership I think, you are wasting valuable time on here.

 

[dave_27]

LOL @ Collingwood rejecting a request for Ben Reid. I dont even rate Ball highly but Reid is a hack.

If Collingwood are relying on Ben Reid to be the future of there backline they are in more trouble than I thought.

 

[Brent24]

LOL @ Collingwood rejecting a request for Ben Reid. I dont even rate Ball highly but Reid is a hack.

If Collingwood are relying on Ben Reid to be the future of there backline they are in more trouble than I thought.

Will be considerably better than Pears.

 

[Zahki]

Ross Lyon has treated Ball like dirt, now the Saints have taken Ball's 3 year contract off the table. Looks like they won't play him, won't respect him, won't trade him, and now won't even offer him a spot or pay him.

Saints are a***holes.
Way to treat a captain.

This. Lyon clearly doesn't give a crap about Ball or his wishes and has treated him disgracefully. Now he takes his contract off the table to punish him even more? Why? For daring to head somewhere where he might get some time on ground?

Ball was willing to leave for less money and to a club lower on the ladder, that says a lot about how he feels he was being treated.

I wish him the best wherever he ends up, and hope that he gets the respect and treatment a player and person of his class deserves.

 

[Stylus]

I'd be happy to see Ball come to Melb in the PSD, but if he was to enter the ND, I'd say he would get to Collingwood at #30.

 

[jakson68]

Outstanding ignorance Steph. This surpasses your predictions that Collingwood would flog us in the finals, and I doubted you could improve on that.

Clearly you have hidden depths.

I reckon our young players have a fair bit to offer, and I expect them to filter into the senior side over the next couple of seasons. We tend to bring them on a bit more slowly than other teams, but you'll get to see them soon enough.

I look forward to watching St Kilda continue keeping all their silverware in a shoebox, as that is all the room they need.

 

[Strachuniee]

LOL @ Collingwood rejecting a request for Ben Reid. I dont even rate Ball highly but Reid is a hack.

If Collingwood are relying on Ben Reid to be the future of there backline they are in more trouble than I thought.

There is a reason he got drafted as an under-age player with pick 8. I know what he was picked up as know is irrelevant, but to suggest he is a hack is ignorant on your behalf. Some players, especially young key position players, will take more time to develop and hence are worth more to the club than outsiders.

 

[KissStephanie]

Since when did having a 3 year contract sitting in front of you mean you're unrequired?

He doesn't have a bloody contract sitting in front of him. He is not wanted, but St.Kilda didn't want to trade him.

So you still believe St Kilda's sole intention was to screw over Ball?

In my opinion yes. Ross Lyon has little faith in him, and they don't have a contract for him, and they didn't want to clear him. They have screwed him over as much as a player can be screwed over by their club.

Ross Lyon has made it clear if Ball wants to return to the club he can.

What an absolute load of rubbish! If St.Kilda can't have him, then nobody else can either is how Lyon feels in my opinion. Unless he takes a chance in one of the drafts.

There's a contract still there,

Please don't make things up. I don't have tolerance for people that do that. There is not a not a contract for Luke Ball from St.Kilda.

or will be there.

You're just guessing.

The original 3 year contract was recinded because we need to factor in the contracts of Lovett and Peake into the salary cap.

Oh dear. Ross Lyon has not stated that there will definitely be a contract for Luke Ball. St.Kilda are desperate hypocrites. On Grand Final night, Ross Lyon said, "if anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." What a load of absolute rubbish!

When Luke Ball did that, St.Kilda had no intention of following through and backing up those words with actions. Ross Lyon has no intention of seriously considering trading Ball to Collingwood, and he certainly had no intention of accepting a draft pick because St.Kilda don't care about young players and the future. They care about next season only and then any chance of a premiership is over in my opinion.

He won't be on as much money as he was previously being offered.

What they have done is screw a player that doesn't want to be there for their own selfish reasons. St.Kilda doesn't care if a player doesn't want to play for them or not. They are weak.

Oh ok, i guess if Francis Leach said it was ok then it must be.

He is a St.Kilda supporter that happens to agree with me. The offer was fair for an unwanted player that does not want to play for St.Kilda.

Sending a player to a fellow top 4 side who the Pies have been screaming out for, for a useless 2nd round pick we didn't even want in the first place = gift wrapping.

You are unbelievable! What a shocking attitude! Firstly, a second round draft pick is only useless to St.Kilda because they don't care about recruiting youth for the future! There are some terrific young players available in the second round, but St.Kilda wouldn't know because they don't care about that. They are an old team with very little quality youth coming through because their attitude is clearly now or never.

Secondly, what on earth does it matter which team it is? Port Adelaide dealt with Hawthorn and they were the 2008 premiers. Essendon dealt with St.Kilda, and they were the Grand Final losers. Sydney dealt with Footscray and they finished third. Ross Lyon did not say that he will only move players on to teams that are outside the top-4 that suits him if they don't want to stick around. He lied and he screwed Luke Ball over.

Why make another top team stronger, while we get weaker?

Are you fair dinkum? Is that really your selfish position regarding this issue? Trades occur every year, and surely they are willing to get a player to a desired destination instead of keeping a player that doesn't want to stay. St.Kilda made no effort to move Luke Ball on, and Ross Lyon is a liar and a hypocrite.

Collingwood offered Ball 500k, not St Kilda.

St.Kilda have offered nothing, and hopefully Collingwood will stick with that offer and put $1,000,000 in to the first season of the contract if possible so that he can be selected with pick #30 in the national draft.

Obviously Collingwood rate him higher than a mid 2nd round, they tried to call our bluff and failed. Like countless times before.

Collingwood weren't calling any bluff on anything! The offer was fair and reasonable, and I just heard an AFL mediator on ABC radio that said the very same thing. He said that Collingwood desperately tried to get the deal done in a way that was fair, while St.Kilda were being stubborn.!

Played 3 of our most important games of the year, naughty Lyon has no faith at all. How dare he.

Please don't mis-quote me again. I said that Lyon has little faith in Luke Ball, and not that he has no faith in him. Had Lyon showed the more faith, then St.Kilda would have been premiers in my opinion. He didn't though, and Lyon cost them the Grand Final, and I'm glad St.Kilda lost.

Collingwood supporters should direct their angst towards their honchos, not Lyon.

Absolutely not. I'm completely satisfied that Collingwood did everything realistically possible to get the deal done. Listening to the AFL mediator only confirms my opinion. You also stated that St.Kilda should not have traded such a player to a top-4 side which also confirms my opinion that St.Kilda were going to be nothing but rigid and unwaivering regarding this.

There's a reason so many players have slipped through their fingers at the trade table. I'd be pissed too,

Which players, and what were the reasons for these failed trades? Please show sources that support this. If this failed Ball trade is your example, then you're just wrong. There is nothing that a team can do if another team doesn't not want to help a top-4 team as you have admitted yourself. St.Kilda had no intention of compromising and trying to get Ball to his desired club despite Ross Lyon's lies on Grand Final night.

with the addition of Ball + Jolly you guys would've propelled to be a genuine premiership chance, perhaps even outright favourites.

It's quite clear to me that you are quite aware that St.Kilda had no intention of trading with Collingwood. I can understand your position if he was a required and/or contracted player. Luke Ball was neither though, and they screwed him over.

"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - hypocrite Ross Lyon lie - 27th September, 2009.

 

[jayjones1]

He doesn't have a bloody contract sitting in front of him. He is not wanted, but St.Kilda didn't want to trade him.In my opinion yes. Ross Lyon has little faith in him, and they don't have a contract for him, and they didn't want to clear him. They have screwed him over as much as a player can be screwed over by their club.What an absolute load of rubbish! If St.Kilda can't have him, then nobody else can either is how Lyon feels in my opinion. Unless he takes a chance in one of the drafts.Please don't make things up. I don't have tolerance for people that do that. There is not a not a contract for Luke Ball from St.Kilda.You're just guessing.Oh dear. Ross Lyon has not stated that there will definitely be a contract for Luke Ball. St.Kilda are desperate hypocrites. On Grand Final night, Ross Lyon said, "if anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." What a load of absolute rubbish!

When Luke Ball did that, St.Kilda had no intention of following through and backing up those words with actions. Ross Lyon has no intention of seriously considering trading Ball to Collingwood, and he certainly had no intention of accepting a draft pick because St.Kilda don't care about young players and the future. They care about next season only and then any chance of a premiership is over in my opinion.What they have done is screw a player that doesn't want to be there for their own selfish reasons. St.Kilda doesn't care if a player doesn't want to play for them or not. They are weak.He is a St.Kilda supporter that happens to agree with me. The offer was fair for an unwanted player that does not want to play for St.Kilda.You are unbelievable! What a shocking attitude! Firstly, a second round draft pick is only useless to St.Kilda because they don't care about recruiting youth for the future! There are some terrific young players available in the second round, but St.Kilda wouldn't know because they don't care about that. They are an old team with very little quality youth coming through because their attitude is clearly now or never.

Secondly, what on earth does it matter which team it is? Port Adelaide dealt with Hawthorn and they were the 2008 premiers. Essendon dealt with St.Kilda, and they were the Grand Final losers. Sydney dealt with Footscray and they finished third. Ross Lyon did not say that he will only move players on to teams that are outside the top-4 that suits him if they don't want to stick around. He lied and he screwed Luke Ball over.Are you fair dinkum? Is that really your selfish position regarding this issue? Trades occur every year, and surely they are willing to get a player to a desired destination instead of keeping a player that doesn't want to stay. St.Kilda made no effort to move Luke Ball on, and Ross Lyon is a liar and a hypocrite.St.Kilda have offered nothing, and hopefully Collingwood will stick with that offer and put $1,000,000 in to the first season of the contract if possible so that he can be selected with pick #30 in the national draft.Collingwood weren't calling any bluff on anything! The offer was fair and reasonable, and I just heard an AFL mediator on ABC radio that said the very same thing. He said that Collingwood desperately tried to get the deal done in a way that was fair, while St.Kilda were being stubborn.!Please don't mis-quote me again. I said that Lyon has little faith in Luke Ball, and not that he has no faith in him. Had Lyon showed the more faith, then St.Kilda would have been premiers in my opinion. He didn't though, and Lyon cost them the Grand Final, and I'm glad St.Kilda lost.Absolutely not. I'm completely satisfied that Collingwood did everything realistically possible to get the deal done. Listening to the AFL mediator only confirms my opinion. You also stated that St.Kilda should not have traded such a player to a top-4 side which also confirms my opinion that St.Kilda were going to be nothing but rigid and unwaivering regarding this.Which players, and what were the reasons for these failed trades? Please show sources that support this. If this failed Ball trade is your example, then you're just wrong. There is nothing that a team can do if another team doesn't not want to help a top-4 team as you have admitted yourself. St.Kilda had no intention of compromising and trying to get Ball to his desired club despite Ross Lyon's lies on Grand Final night.It's quite clear to me that you are quite aware that St.Kilda had no intention of trading with Collingwood. I can understand your position if he was a required and/or contracted player. Luke Ball was neither though, and they screwed him over.

"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - hypocrite Ross Lyon lie - 27th September, 2009.

you really have a massive hard on for saints, are you upset they are a better side then the filth pies and will be up there next year again unlike the pies? who are just pretenders and always the brides maids! its people like you who make everyone hate collingwood!!!

 

[JapaneseGameShow]

Personally I'm shocked that the Pies didn't go HARD after Fev. Jolly was a good pick up, Ball would have been the icing on the cake.

Once again MM's rigid stubborness has cost the Pies.

Fev would have won them a flag. We were still a year or two off and tbh, we're better off without him with regards to team structure and unity, so don't give me that "where are you gonna get your goals from" crap.

Saints traded Lockett in '95 and were in the '97 Grand Final.

Poor ol' Pies.

 

[m0zza]

18yo 200 cm ruckman AND a 20yo ruckman with a dozen AFL games
2 19yo kp forwards
4 other 19yos
3 21yos with a solid start to their AFL careers

Handy future additions to their Grand Final List

Pretty sure St Kilda are reasonably happy with their list

As for their rookies.... some very tall lads there!