Could Travis Varcoe be moulded into a defender?

[SJ]

Our current back six (and two on the bench) is as follows:

Back: Lonergan Scarlett Hunt
Half-back: Mackie Taylor Enright
Interchange: Milburn Wojcinski

To me that is five medium-tall defenders and three small-mediums (Hunt and Wojcinski with Enright higher up the ground).

I feel Hunt is the more solid of the two back pockets and has had a good year, however he is probably a little slow for some of the roles he needs to take on and could be left exposed if he needs to take the fastest forward. Wojcinski has the pace but is notoriously clumsy without the ball.

Enright can play small too, however generally he takes a high (medium-sized) half forward and tries to hurt his man the other way.

Scarlett is Scarlett and Taylor is Taylor. As has been discussed elsewhere, although Lonergan has been a very sound stopper this year and been reasonably good with the footy, it has meant that Scarlett hasn't really had a (decent) job for a number of weeks. I am not sure if all three can fit in the one side against most sides unless Scarlett is prepared to play on a small, and even then I believe we lose some of his run rather than gain any.

Milburn and Mackie are the other issue. If Lonergan, Taylor and Scarlett are to play then one of these generally has to play small. Milburn is in his last season, and whilst serviceable and sound, he is slowing down and can be found wanting. Mackie is quicker but is a little tall and can clang it up with the best of them. They are similar players but I think of them more as mediums who are more comfortable playing tall rather than small.

Anyone else we have coming through the reserves who could possibly play small in defence (such as Taylor Hunt) are young and very raw, and to be honest I am not keen on playing them under the pressure of finals football.

Kelly is another option to play as a small defender, as he did so to great effect particularly late last year and in the grand final, however he has done a great job taking Corey's position this year and there is no guarantee Corey will be right to play the rest of the year.

So I got thinking about who else do we have that could fit the bill. Who has a defensive side of his game, with closing speed like Wojcinski but with the tackling ability of Hunt? Who has the elite kicking skills of Gilbee with the speed of Harbrow?

Varcoe may have the potential to be an elite player off a half-back flank for the short- to medium-term. He has all the desirable qualities and may gain further confidence in a position where it is relatively easier to get a kick. It could solve our small defender problems for a year or two, as well as providing silver service on the rebound and heading inside 50 (here I am thinking of the run off half-back against St Kilda, the one-two with West, and the beautiful kick to Mooney).

I wouldn't want Varcoe to play out his career in this role, but could this be a possibility for the next year or two as our defence goes through a transition?

 

[Turbocat]

Not sure , it depends on the role assigned. As a McLeod type , a running rebound yes but is that what we lack ATM.
I really think we need a slightly different addition, one who is a negative , lockdown , "pain in the a" type. Do we have that guy on our list , not sure. Kelly is the man but he has been so good in the middle. THunt may be that in a couple of years. Djkurra? While we play Wojo in the side , I think Varcoe has to remain out of the backline.

 

[cats2rise]

When he was drafted there was always talks about him becoming an Andrew McLeod type from the experts both in the media and on BigFooty. I always presumed he would be moulded down back after he stopped his introduction to AFL level while playing up forward.

To be honest, I never saw it at start but the past 12 months of Football I have seen him play has been amazing. I didnt pick up on it in his first 40 or so games. I think he needs to have a good finals series this year though as he hasnt in the past.

As you suggest SJ, I think its possible that he will play there in a transition period. He would need to work on his defensive side (dont get me wrong, he is a great chaser and tackler up forward but its completely different in the back half) but he would always be a very attacking defender. He would be great to see flying on the half back flank at the MCG under lights.

I think he will be a weapon in the midfield for years to come though. If anyone will come close to being an Ablett Jnr fromt he AFL I would have to say Varcoe. Cyril Rioli has amazing talent, but I think Varcoe does as much but the media has not been hyping it up because he didnt show these signs as quickly as we have with Cyril Rioli.

He just needs more confidence. I think its something we have been seeing lately, but when he has more confidence in himself I think we will start to slowly see him dominate a few games.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Varcoe should be challenged to be an elite midfielder. He has the capacity to be better...maybe he could play the sweeping Burgoyne type role, but i honestly doubt we will ever really play in a style that really requires that.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Short answer SJ, yes, definitely yes.

Longer answer, for sure. Wojo doesn't have the accountability and relevant defensive skills, and is near the end anyway. Dasher ditto, and Hunt can play well against some small forwards, but lacks the leg speed to do it all the time.

Like you, I am not sure whether I'd want to see him play his whole career there, since in the era of zones that we are in, I feel your quicker players are best used up your forward half where you can break the zone. But, we lack other options, and any that come through will take time, so this year and next it is certainly something I would like to see us look at.

That said, we know from Travis that he is an excellent tackler in both technique and mentality, so he could adapt to taking on a small forward, and he has the kicking skill to be damaging when we are running it out. He would have to learn a few things but I have no doubt he could make it in this role. And there really is no one else at present that could come in and do as well as he could in that type of job.

My other point is our one area of genuine depth is how many small forward types we have drafted lately (motlop, menzel, a varcoe etc), so as I said somewhere else, as they start to come through it is definitely feasible to shift Trav down back, and in terms of what we do and don't have on the list, I reckon he may well be our best option for that role.

P.S. Trav definitely reminds me of Harbrow, I can totally see it in my head.

 

[vinum coupe]

Needs a poll SJ.

No.



Well not a defensive defender. (sounds dumb)

Someone who plays off the wing and runs back for support? yes.

 

[David the Cat]

Not sure myself. IF Ablett goes I think Varcoe will go to the midfield. I am not sure Varcoe is ready for the backline right now...maybe!>?? Certainly Gamble isnt the answer.

Corey is going to return from all accounts....so he may slot back in the midfield and release Kelly to go in the back half again. He was superb there last year....and a great Grand Final.

It will be interesting to see if Thompson sticks with young Taylor Hunt. Looks pretty raw right now...but game time might help...seems to have a good football brain.

 

[CF]

It's a credit to Travis that we would even consider him. But I have to admit I have thought the same thing this week given that our defence has been exposed by the use of small forwards by Carlton & St Kilda.

I think the problem is not only the lack of quick small defender in the backline. It has a lot to do with the structure our backline employs through the zoning off as the ball comes down so they can peel off and assist each other in the contest.

This works OK with a traditional forward set up with a few talls in it. But teams are learning to exploit this by using the small forwards to create a loose man when our defenders begin to zone off and employ their structure. They kick the ball in short instead of long to catch our lads off guard.

So I am not sure if just adding a small fast defender is the answer overall. I think the overall game plan and defensive structure needs a bit of tweaking to cope with these new tactics employed against us. Looks like it is time for our gameplan to evolve or else we will be left behind.

I think Milburn is too slow myself. Maybe switch him forward and try someone like Varcoe or even Stokes in the back pocket when our opposition has a plethora of small forwards.

 

[Vdubs]

Think i suggested this pre 09 season and got a negative response. I would love a Chris Johnson/Aker type BP, and Varcoe could be that player, quick, creative, great tackler, knows how forwards move. This is an area of weakness for us against some teams, and we might get exploited more for it in the future.

Or Hogan??? somebody who is reasonably skilled and fast. Don't know who else is on the horizon. ????Firman next year could be a mature recruit in that position. Djerrkura seems to be slip-sliding away?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Think i suggested this pre 09 season and got a negative response. I would love a Chris Johnson/Aker type BP, and Varcoe could be that player, quick, creative, great tackler, knows how forwards move. This is an area of weakness for us against some teams, and we might get exploited more for it in the future.

Or Hogan??? somebody who is reasonably skilled and fast. Don't know who else is on the horizon. ????Firman next year could be a mature recruit in that position. Djerrkura seems to be slip-sliding away?

Nup I mean Djerrkura has the defensive tackling ability as we saw by his debut game, but his disposal is too iffy by foot for him to be put in the area of the ground where you can't afford to turn it over. As an aside, I'd like to see him become a run with mid but he'll probably be delisted by then.

Anyway, back to the Varcoe thing, love the closing speed, tackling, and then quality disposal, would be great coming out of defence. Don't think Hogan could do it as he seems to get caught with the ball a lot. Down the track I think Taylor Hunt can but you've got to give him time. Hence I like SJ's idea re Varcs.

 

[AM]

Nup I mean Djerrkura has the defensive tackling ability as we saw by his debut game, but his disposal is too iffy by foot for him to be put in the area of the ground where you can't afford to turn it over. As an aside, I'd like to see him become a run with mid but he'll probably be delisted by then.

Anyway, back to the Varcoe thing, love the closing speed, tackling, and then quality disposal, would be great coming out of defence. Don't think Hogan could do it as he seems to get caught with the ball a lot. Down the track I think Taylor Hunt can but you've got to give him time. Hence I like SJ's idea re Varcs.

You see quite a bit of the twos P_O, what's happened to DJ. He was at Scotch at the same time as Rioli and considered then to be almost as good a prospect. For mine, he has performed reasonably well at the elite level but seems to be the first player relegated. I wonder whether the powers that be have been so insistent he work on his defensive skills it's been to the detriment of his flair and offensive skills.?

 

[True Blue Cat]

I think his pressure up forward is too valuable to really move him down back but i suppose in the next few years chances are he will move more into the midfield. Varcoe does have everything you would want in a small defender but it all comes down to whether or not you are willing to play him there instead of up forward. Although it is a nice option to have if push comes to shove and we have a small forward that we can't shut down any other way.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I think his pressure up forward is too valuable to really move him down back but i suppose in the next few years chances are he will move more into the midfield. Varcoe does have everything you would want in a small defender but it all comes down to whether or not you are willing to play him there instead of up forward. Although it is a nice option to have if push comes to shove and we have a small forward that we can't shut down any other way.

Well Varcs would make a good midfielder but even if Gazza goes it is to be remembered that we have no shortage of decent midfield options so it's not like we have to send Trav in there.

I agree that sending him back is a bit robbing Peter to pay Paul, but if we need to cover small forwards and he's the best option for the job, then so be it I say.

You see quite a bit of the twos P_O, what's happened to DJ. He was at Scotch at the same time as Rioli and considered then to be almost as good a prospect. For mine, he has performed reasonably well at the elite level but seems to be the first player relegated. I wonder whether the powers that be have been so insistent he work on his defensive skills it's been to the detriment of his flair and offensive skills.?

I think there's a few on these boards that see as much of the VFL as me and probably have smarter opinions. But anyway, it is to be remembered that DJ was good last year and then got injured and couldn't force his way back in. So I certainly don't think he's been written off, he just needs an opportunity and to start banging the door down.

I'm not sure about whether he's been made to work too much on the defensive skills because I don't see what they do every day (obviously). I just think people maybe expect him to be that creative small forward when it's not necessarily his go. From what I have seen in the VFL, last year and this year, he contributes well and gets a lot of inside ball, it's just a role in which you can watch a game without really noticing his good work so it doesn't stand out much. It's also hard to assess because he plays inside mid in the VFL but whenever he's brought into the seniors he plays small forward, which is a completely different role, and as I said I feel that unless his kicking becomes more damaging (it's serviceable and by no means Tenace, but he can't hurt you or be especially creative by foot) that's not his role anyway, and for me he'd excel more in inside mid, defensive mid or defensive forward. Whether he gets opportunities in any of those roles and whether he takes them, time will tell I suppose.

 

[crazycat10]

I herd on one week at a time in the 13 games we have lost since the start of 07, 35% of goals against us have been kick by small forwards. Travie would defenently be the one who could help us in this area. Great at chasing and tackleing,

 

[vinum coupe]

I wouldn't consider that a large figure.
In our past 80 wins 50% of our goals have probably been kicked by smalls.

 

[RangaInTeal]

As a junior I played against Trav, I have stated on here before how good he was in a final against us, single handly beat us in half a game of football. He was always played as an onballer and then on a wing in state sides and even most Centrals sides he played in. However, even when on the wing, he looked at his best when he was picking up kicks accross half back, running blokes down and linking up with handballs as he drove the ball forward. He has always possesed three traits, Speed, Vision and Tackling ability.

His speed is good enough to play in any possition, His tackling ability and determination sees him as a great "Defensive" Type player and his vision, wether it be reading the play or moving the ball forward, he can see what is happening before it actually happens. All are traits that would make him a great small defender.

I think Trav is a natural defender. But people get carried away with his ability to run and his speed. His ability to kick goals and unfortunatly, his skin colour. This may be a long bow to draw, but every coach was looking for the small Aboriginal forward. Where as I think trav is more the Gavin Wanganeen, Andrew McLeod, Graham Johncock, Chris Johnson, Richard Tambling type.

Another question to you guys, If Gary Ablet leaves and you guys get Travis Boak, would Travis Varcoe and your first rounder be something your side would be willing to part with? I understand how this is unfair to Geelong, but Travis Boak is a starting Rover, Travis is a HFF/speculative midfielder and pick 32/34 is a speculative player at best.

 

[vinum coupe]

Everyone will say no. But that's probably a fair trade Ranga. (and TV is my favourite player)

But I can't see the cats losing Ablett and then giving up another player and a draft pick to get Boak. It's too much to pay in the overall scheme.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Everyone will say no. But that's probably a fair trade Ranga. (and TV is my favourite player)

But I can't see the cats losing Ablett and then giving up another player and a draft pick to get Boak. It's too much to pay in the overall scheme.

Agreed...besides which the club is not going to lose ablett, and then trade out the bloke wearing #5 as well, that would be far too much for the fans to bear.

Besides which I think what makes Travis so valuable to us, as the Port poster rightly points out, is his uniqueness, and he offers us something no one else on the list really does.

Boak is a very very good player, don't get me wrong, but he's nowhere as unique as Trav and for that reason, among others, we wouldn't give up Trav.

So I am sure if Boak wants to come here we will try to give a fair trade and hence offer some decent picks or players, but travis won't be on the list, nor should he be.

 

[Vdubs]

Ranga in teal, NO WAY. Would rather have Travis Varcoe than Boak anyway

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Ranga in teal, NO WAY. Would rather have Travis Varcoe than Boak anyway

I agree.

Now let's get back to this Varcoe as defender stuff....I am very keen to push that bandwagon

 

[bulletproof]

Love the guy but not desperate, strong enough, consistent or having the required concentration levels to play in the back half. Would be an absolute disaster.It is fine to go missing for a half as a forward pocket, turn off like that in the back half and we've given away 5 goals and Scarlo has sprayed him into next week.

Not a very clever suggestion SJ.

 

[RangaInTeal]

Love the guy but not desperate, strong enough, consistent or having the required concentration levels to play in the back half. Would be an absolute disaster.It is fine to go missing for a half as a forward pocket, turn off like that in the back half and we've given away 5 goals and Scarlo has sprayed him into next week.

Not a very clever suggestion SJ.

It's easy to "go missing" for a half in a forward pocket as your game is based around big forwards making a contest, midfielders getting the ball deep enough etc. in a Back Pocket and on a Half Back Flank it is all on your shoulders, maybe what Trav needs!

 

[RangaInTeal]

It's easy to "go missing" for a half in a forward pocket as your game is based around big forwards making a contest, midfielders getting the ball deep enough etc. in a Back Pocket and on a Half Back Flank it is all on your shoulders, maybe what Trav needs!

May be the difference between Travis being an Exciting Footballer and a Good Footballer.

 

[SJ]

It's easy to "go missing" for a half in a forward pocket as your game is based around big forwards making a contest, midfielders getting the ball deep enough etc. in a Back Pocket and on a Half Back Flank it is all on your shoulders, maybe what Trav needs!

Agreed. Forward pocket is a very difficult position where, maybe moreso than any other position, you must rely on your teammates to have an impact.

I would say playing in the back pocket and particularly running off a half-back flank is a significantly easier way to become involved in the game, as you can provide both a shutdown role on your opponent and help to create run out of defence facing relatively reduced pressure.

 

[Claude Balls]

Love the guy but not desperate, strong enough, consistent or having the required concentration levels to play in the back half. Would be an absolute disaster.It is fine to go missing for a half as a forward pocket, turn off like that in the back half and we've given away 5 goals and Scarlo has sprayed him into next week.

Not a very clever suggestion SJ.

How dramatic.