If you've read them (not doubting you probably have, you read a lot on this forum) then I would be very interested to hear your arguments against the points made.
Crows Chat That 'Doesnt Deserve Its Own Thread' Thread part 2
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Just after the Crompton decision.
Scorpus
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Okay, here's my best shot at it. I won't clog up this thread for those that don't want a wall of text
I agree with the main position that most crypto "currencies" aren't currencies and are more akin to value stores, stocks, assets; a way to make money. The vision for crypto (well, at least at some point) was to make it replace traditional currencies for transactions. That vision is currently unproven, the most popular coins of today are not viable for everyday transactions (speed, cost, scalability) and the technologies to solve this largely rely on less popular coins (what is the buy in/marketability from normies to achieve widespread adoption of those/another coin?) or other tech in its infancy. I don't have an issue with another form to store value but I don't know whether the vision of replacing traditional currencies will ever become a reality, at least in the short-medium term, hence my position about the usefulness of crypto being less than originally advertised. No I don't count buying a Tesla with crypto as evidence of it being a useful currency, I'm talking about buying coffees or doing the weekly shop.
The predictions on significant price increases (Bitcoin at $100k or whatever) largely come without a timeframe which makes them seem nice. Can companies making bank since the significant increase in the crypto market over the last 2 years weather a similar period without value growth (eg. mid-18 to mid-20) or at worst a long period of decline? It's all nice to say the valuation will hit $100k or whatever arbitrary number and I don't necessarily disagree with that, but the ecosystem is new enough that it's unclear which companies and players will survive if that takes longer than expected. I don't expect big exchanges to fail, but I think there is a realistic chance they would pull the massive sponsorship deals they have in the event of lower profits.
What is the impact of increased government regulation going to be? Crypto enthusiasts are kidding themselves if they think it will actually be fully decentralized and removed from government control. You already have to pay capital gains tax on cryptocurrency profits, what else will governments do? I think this will have a significant impact on the viability of crypto as a currency replacement (will governments even let crypto replace the USD as an example or will they regulate the s**t out of it?). How will governments attempt to regulate even the investment/asset side of things? Right now there is far less interference than with traditional currencies and I don't expect that to continue, I especially think crackdowns will be made to stop illegal activity like money laundering. Any increase in oversight would impact the vision and also potential valuations in my opinion.
The environmental side of things is always contentious and I saw the point being made that 70% of crypto mining is done on renewables. Sure, but if crypto didn't exist, then that 70% of renewables use could be used for other things, reducing the amount of fossil fuel sources required for the world's energy use. There are solutions in the works for this, but the fact still remains the two largest coins are PoW and this causes a significant environmental impact. ETH is supposed to transition to PoS but the continual delays to that are questionable and it remains to be seen when or if it will happen (or happen successfully). Or even if there aren't fork attempts to continue PoW.
I also take issue with a lot of the "crypto will solve this" or "crypto will do this better" plans. I've already explained my position on NFTs and that's one of them. NFTs are great as a buzzword term you can leverage to make cash right now, but that's it. I also have concerns that poor/useless implementations of crypto will hurt widespread adoption for genuinely useful things.
Most of the points about crypto revolve around using it as an investment or wealth growth tool and I have no issue with that. I also don't think it will disappear or not keep progressing. But I do think it will be much more difficult to achieve some of the heights or goals that some hardcore enthusiasts think it will
The predictions on significant price increases (Bitcoin at $100k or whatever) largely come without a timeframe which makes them seem nice. Can companies making bank since the significant increase in the crypto market over the last 2 years weather a similar period without value growth (eg. mid-18 to mid-20) or at worst a long period of decline? It's all nice to say the valuation will hit $100k or whatever arbitrary number and I don't necessarily disagree with that, but the ecosystem is new enough that it's unclear which companies and players will survive if that takes longer than expected. I don't expect big exchanges to fail, but I think there is a realistic chance they would pull the massive sponsorship deals they have in the event of lower profits.
What is the impact of increased government regulation going to be? Crypto enthusiasts are kidding themselves if they think it will actually be fully decentralized and removed from government control. You already have to pay capital gains tax on cryptocurrency profits, what else will governments do? I think this will have a significant impact on the viability of crypto as a currency replacement (will governments even let crypto replace the USD as an example or will they regulate the s**t out of it?). How will governments attempt to regulate even the investment/asset side of things? Right now there is far less interference than with traditional currencies and I don't expect that to continue, I especially think crackdowns will be made to stop illegal activity like money laundering. Any increase in oversight would impact the vision and also potential valuations in my opinion.
The environmental side of things is always contentious and I saw the point being made that 70% of crypto mining is done on renewables. Sure, but if crypto didn't exist, then that 70% of renewables use could be used for other things, reducing the amount of fossil fuel sources required for the world's energy use. There are solutions in the works for this, but the fact still remains the two largest coins are PoW and this causes a significant environmental impact. ETH is supposed to transition to PoS but the continual delays to that are questionable and it remains to be seen when or if it will happen (or happen successfully). Or even if there aren't fork attempts to continue PoW.
I also take issue with a lot of the "crypto will solve this" or "crypto will do this better" plans. I've already explained my position on NFTs and that's one of them. NFTs are great as a buzzword term you can leverage to make cash right now, but that's it. I also have concerns that poor/useless implementations of crypto will hurt widespread adoption for genuinely useful things.
Most of the points about crypto revolve around using it as an investment or wealth growth tool and I have no issue with that. I also don't think it will disappear or not keep progressing. But I do think it will be much more difficult to achieve some of the heights or goals that some hardcore enthusiasts think it will
Fair points, glad you took the time to read up on it a bit more and provide constructive counter points. Don't agree with the majority of your points and will address a few below.
On your point about the environment, am I in a new world where crypto is the only market using electricity?
Also, will Governments also crackdown on money laundering in TradFi? It's like crypto is the only way people money launder; at least in crypto every transaction is traceable, can't say the same for cash.
There are plenty of projects in crypto that are way overvalued, but the same can be said for speculative mining stocks that never actually mine anything as well (as an example). Investing in crypto is an investment into new technologies, just like people have done in the stock market for decades.
Also, a crypto exchange pulling sponsorship because of a decrease in profits is literally no different to any company doing the same. What happens if Toyota suddenly go into a massive profit decline?
Crypto is also already heavily regulated in the US (the largest market for crypto) and if I tried to dodge the tax man in Australia, then it's very easy to catch up with me. Any major centralised exchange requires substantial identity verification these days, that's how they get a license to operate in most countries. Scams in crypto do get called out, just like anyone that gets scammed by a speculative mining company that misreported the size of their deposit and price tanks before many are able to get their money out.
Also, if you don't think crypto is already heavily used as a currency (I don't think Fiat is going anywhere either, doesn't mean I think it's any less of a Ponzi), then have a read of this article by Visa and a Tweet below about the number of transactions settled on Ethereum vs Visa last year:
On your bit about NFTs (you do realise NBA Top Shots uses this technology for their application?), have a read of this article to help your understanding if you think there aren't any real world use cases for the tech. I've already linked you to a source explaining what NFT technology actually is.
Also, will Governments also crackdown on money laundering in TradFi? It's like crypto is the only way people money launder; at least in crypto every transaction is traceable, can't say the same for cash.
There are plenty of projects in crypto that are way overvalued, but the same can be said for speculative mining stocks that never actually mine anything as well (as an example). Investing in crypto is an investment into new technologies, just like people have done in the stock market for decades.
Also, a crypto exchange pulling sponsorship because of a decrease in profits is literally no different to any company doing the same. What happens if Toyota suddenly go into a massive profit decline?
Crypto is also already heavily regulated in the US (the largest market for crypto) and if I tried to dodge the tax man in Australia, then it's very easy to catch up with me. Any major centralised exchange requires substantial identity verification these days, that's how they get a license to operate in most countries. Scams in crypto do get called out, just like anyone that gets scammed by a speculative mining company that misreported the size of their deposit and price tanks before many are able to get their money out.
Also, if you don't think crypto is already heavily used as a currency (I don't think Fiat is going anywhere either, doesn't mean I think it's any less of a Ponzi), then have a read of this article by Visa and a Tweet below about the number of transactions settled on Ethereum vs Visa last year:
On your bit about NFTs (you do realise NBA Top Shots uses this technology for their application?), have a read of this article to help your understanding if you think there aren't any real world use cases for the tech. I've already linked you to a source explaining what NFT technology actually is.
Scorpus
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Crypto isn't the only market using energy, but if it used significantly less energy, the entire world's energy requirements would decrease and we could decommission fossil fuel plants earlier. Every industry should be striving to this but I think crypto is particularly egregious because PoW isn't a requirement for crypto to function (as evidenced by non-PoW coins) and it's massively energy inefficient vs non-PoW. This also doesn't factor in the ewaste element of producing mining hardware like ASICs or GPUs
Governments are cracking down heavily on money laundering all the time. The efforts to do so are increasing all the time. I'm not saying that crypto will be regulated and other currencies won't, just that the oversight on crypto will increase and efforts will be made (as well as efforts in other areas).
I agree that it's similar to a company like Toyota, but Toyota is a more established company operating over a longer period. Newer companies who have recently experienced a boom in business are a higher risk than established businesses and there's no long term history to fall back on.
I'm not saying that regulation would be used purely to crack down on illegal activity and scams, I mean more that regulation would cause crypto to act more like a centralized currency - defeating the purpose of part of the vision for crypto in the first place. It can't be "decentralized" while also being centralized and under significant government regulation like today's "centralized" currencies.
As for your point about Ethereum transactions vs Visa, all ETH transactions include wallet to wallet transactions and extremely large transactions (eg. buying expensive art), which you wouldn't or can't use Visa for. It's obvious that crypto is not yet being used for the vast majority of day to day transactions, the market that Visa and Mastercard occupy. I highly doubt that ETH would get anywhere near the level of bank transfers (probably trillions per day) let alone any other methods of transferring money
I know what NFTs are, and as I've said I don't think they solve an existing problem. Companies want to use it for the marketing and buzzwords, but existing systems can be used in place of an NFT that are better. Games for example have had no trouble handling DLC and microtransactions without NFTs.
Governments are cracking down heavily on money laundering all the time. The efforts to do so are increasing all the time. I'm not saying that crypto will be regulated and other currencies won't, just that the oversight on crypto will increase and efforts will be made (as well as efforts in other areas).
I agree that it's similar to a company like Toyota, but Toyota is a more established company operating over a longer period. Newer companies who have recently experienced a boom in business are a higher risk than established businesses and there's no long term history to fall back on.
I'm not saying that regulation would be used purely to crack down on illegal activity and scams, I mean more that regulation would cause crypto to act more like a centralized currency - defeating the purpose of part of the vision for crypto in the first place. It can't be "decentralized" while also being centralized and under significant government regulation like today's "centralized" currencies.
As for your point about Ethereum transactions vs Visa, all ETH transactions include wallet to wallet transactions and extremely large transactions (eg. buying expensive art), which you wouldn't or can't use Visa for. It's obvious that crypto is not yet being used for the vast majority of day to day transactions, the market that Visa and Mastercard occupy. I highly doubt that ETH would get anywhere near the level of bank transfers (probably trillions per day) let alone any other methods of transferring money
I know what NFTs are, and as I've said I don't think they solve an existing problem. Companies want to use it for the marketing and buzzwords, but existing systems can be used in place of an NFT that are better. Games for example have had no trouble handling DLC and microtransactions without NFTs.
I don't think we are ever getting on the same page here, but I do appreciate the responses.
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GreyCrow
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I like how the people who are recommending caution are the ones out of touch
Its not about still depositing coins - no matter how patronising that pov is - its about caution . Get the money upfront
Firepower and MyAtm are remembered long after the others are gone
Its not about still depositing coins - no matter how patronising that pov is - its about caution . Get the money upfront
Firepower and MyAtm are remembered long after the others are gone
If you are reading the opinions from people well researched on a topic, then yes. It should just be one medium to use for your research though, but it is a start.Reading a BF thread is research??
I'm sure a portion will be upfront, just like I'm sure any sponsor will be. If any company folds while sponsoring something, I am sure there are clauses to allow a sporting organisation to exit the contact.
Not sure who you are chatting to, I've got a couple of mates that I can have constructive conservations with about crypto. There are plenty of posters on here as well that you can have reasonable discussions with.
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Crypto.com confirmed
www.afc.com.au
Crows welcome new partner
The Crows are the first Australian sporting club to partner with Crypto.com
Not saying everyone who is into Crypto is like that, but there's a fair chunk of crypto people who just can't hear anything negative about it and wrap their hole identity around it. Same with Tesla stans. Twitter is the worst for it.
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Another win for our womens team as reading the announcement and the previous one for their AFL sponsorship, womens footy was a massive influence in their decision to get involved.
It's probably similar for any topic though (sport is just as bad), especially on Twitter.
Mr MysteryGuest
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Ironic given how bad your take on NFT’s is. Use crypto if you like but I hope this sponsorship does not lead the club towards NFT’s, something we should never get involved with.
1. Yes but most of the other uses aren’t really that good either and don’t offer anything more advantageous than pre-exist ing technology.
2. Most of the digital art community do not love NFTs, in fact they hate them. They are wide reports of art theft, and that has been repurposed and sold as NFTs and artist gets nothing.
3. One of the co-inventor’s of the encryption technology has said that the current format is underdeveloped and he did not intend for its current wide spread use. He also believes the most common use of NFTs are a scam.
Did you happen to comment on a Twitter post by the club announcing the sponsorship? A source for your last comment would be appreciated, have not heard that before but always happy to learn.
Mr MysteryGuest
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If I can find the article
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