Current Membership Tally

[Chaz Pendlebury]

The Sheedy era generated a mass of junior supporters during the period 1993 - 2001 most notably. This was the period when Essendon were the biggest ticket in town and amassed a wave of junior support. This is translated in the junior membership figures.

Any kid who jumped on in the mid 90's, lets say they were 5 in 93, would be turning 20 this year.

Kids age like the rest of us. Unless a high proportion of these kids are from never never land then they would be buying concessions or adult season tickets now.

A seven year old in 2000 would be 15 this year and buying a concession.

Essendon's juniors jumped from under 5,000 to over 11,000 in 1 year, now unless the bombers have recruited the pied-piper to their membership department then there is no way that could be real growth

Earlier on this year when essendon's juniors where listed at around 4,000, much lower than a lot of other clubs, I suggested that that was rediculous and it was more likely that there was something dodgey about other clubs junior numbers

the bottom line is, despite which clubs you might believe have attracted the most new young supporters over the last 5 to 10 years (or 10 to 20 years if they are flying to games with peter pan) junior memberships are purchased by adults taking their kids to the games

if Carlton have 2000 more junior members than us despite having 4,000 less adults, then i would suggest there is quite a bit of "wind" in their numbers

 

[gopies1981]

Essendon have finished just behind Collingwood for total memberships - and interesting to note that the figures were auditered and published by the AFL, confirming what I always thought, Essendons membership is on a par with Collingwood. On the junior membership front, it always puzzled me to see that Essendon had previously had only 4,500 junior members whilst some clubs in Victoria doubled this number. I even remember some of the smaller clubs having more junior members than the bombers.

The Junior Membership result for Essendon is more consistent with what I believe to be the general opinion in the football world - that Essendon of all clubs have the highest proportion of junior supporters of all clubs in the AFL, on the back of the 1993 - 2000 premiership teams. Essendon have always been well represented by junior supporters and the confirmed membership result reinforces my belief that Essendon have the most junior supporters in the AFL - something I think the general opinion would have always thought anyway.

On the total result, a great result by Essendon - just falling short of Collingwood for top of the Victorian membership ladder. A great result given poor on field results in recent years. Reinforces my long helf view that Essendon is on a par with Collingwood as the biggest club in the land - and confirming that they are the big 2.

Also noteworthy is the Carlton final figure, below 40,000 and some 2,000 behind Essendon. This is of some surprise to many I would have thought.

Adelaide membership down to 48,000 - not out of the question that a premiership to either Essendon or Collingwood would see them threaten Adelaide for top membership in the AFL in the years ahead.

So does this mean that in the next 10-20 years Collingwood will be the 6th most popular Victorian Club?

 

[dave10]

I think it will be a race between Collingwood and Essendon to see who will be the first Victorian Club to reach 50,000 member's. I think it will depend on which club wins a premiership first!

Agree, I think they both have another gear up their sleeve

 

[dave10]

No its not end of story, your website is inaccurate then.

Also your fellow posters admit it. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=465740&page=2

Ok, our website is inaccurate then.

 

[dave10]

I have no doubt that Collingwood would easily be in the top 2 (along with Essendon) for junior support in Victoria. Weather or not it will result in junior memberships time will tell? Collingwood would easily have more supporter's in Victoria under 14 years of age the Richmond! Remember like Dave10 said last year Essendon had one of the lowest junior membership bases last year but does that reflect that in 2007 essedon has one the the lowest junior supporters bases in Victoria? of couse not! same applies for Collingwood in 2008!

Putting all this into perspective, I think we can draw the following conclusions about the final membership lists:

Collingwood are marginally ahead of Essendon with Carlton a bit further behind these clubs, I think this correlates well with the level of support these 3 clubs enjoy. Hawthorn and Geelong have obviously had successful years with plenty of optimism and have capitalised with surging membership bases. Richmond continue to hold a 'solid' core base after years of failure - whilst I don't believe they are at the same level as Essendon and Collingwood, they are at probably the 4th biggest Vic club. To me, the big worry is St Kilda. Membership dropped 10%, the club holds no cash reserves, has a 'no name' major sponsor, has significant doubts over its future headquarters and admin base and is fighting against a slide down the ladder. 2008 may see a major financial loss on poor membership and attendances - add to that the inevitable drop in merchandising and events income with a falling away of on field form. I am a bit worries about St Kilda.

 

[dave10]

Any kid who jumped on in the mid 90's, lets say they were 5 in 93, would be turning 20 this year.

Kids age like the rest of us. Unless a high proportion of these kids are from never never land then they would be buying concessions or adult season tickets now.

A seven year old in 2000 would be 15 this year and buying a concession.

Essendon's juniors jumped from under 5,000 to over 11,000 in 1 year, now unless the bombers have recruited the pied-piper to their membership department then there is no way that could be real growth

Earlier on this year when essendon's juniors where listed at around 4,000, much lower than a lot of other clubs, I suggested that that was rediculous and it was more likely that there was something dodgey about other clubs junior numbers

the bottom line is, despite which clubs you might believe have attracted the most new young supporters over the last 5 to 10 years (or 10 to 20 years if they are flying to games with peter pan) junior memberships are purchased by adults taking their kids to the games

if Carlton have 2000 more junior members than us despite having 4,000 less adults, then i would suggest there is quite a bit of "wind" in their numbers

Chaz, my broader point is that overall, Essendon argueably have the highest proportion of young fans as a total of its supporter base as any club. In his latest colum in "The Bomber", Ray Horsburgh maintains that 54% of Essendons 'committed fans' are between the ages of 14-34. My point is, whilst I think the Dons have a higher proportion of juniors to total supporters relative to other clubs, they generally have a younger supporter base - relative to other clubs.

It is this last point that Essendon is aggressively capitalising on in its pursuit of corporate sponsors as well with some success.

With regard to the reported Junior Membership total, I believe the AFL have changed their position on Junior categories to now include Squadron memberships as ticketed members. However, Essendon also report that Junior membership in 2008 is up 20%, it's largest growing category in 2008. Given adult membership grew by 2,300 in 2008, these two categories form the majority of its overall growth.

 

[dave10]

So does this mean that in the next 10-20 years Collingwood will be the 6th most popular Victorian Club?

No. Based on the majority of kids following in their parents footsteps. I would say 20% of kids choose a club to support based on their own choice and reasons at the time they get to the age where they decide to follow a club or the game. I think Essendon would have snapped up many of these '20%' between 1993 - 2000. Collingwood will always be strong in this regard, maintaining support amongst the other '80%' that I would think they would be born into. What is MAY mean is, the present generation of kids may be slightly skewed in favour of Essendon as opposed to Collingwood. The rest is genetics.

 

[dave10]

No. Based on the majority of kids following in their parents footsteps. I would say 20% of kids choose a club to support based on their own choice and reasons at the time they get to the age where they decide to follow a club or the game. I think Essendon would have snapped up many of these '20%' between 1993 - 2000. Collingwood will always be strong in this regard, maintaining support amongst the other '80%' that I would think they would be born into. What is MAY mean is, the present generation of kids may be slightly skewed in favour of Essendon as opposed to Collingwood. The rest is genetics.

Sometimes I get the feeling I am talking to myself...!

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

Chaz, my broader point is that overall, Essendon argueably have the highest proportion of young fans as a total of its supporter base as any club. In his latest colum in "The Bomber", Ray Horsburgh maintains that 54% of Essendons 'committed fans' are between the ages of 14-34. My point is, whilst I think the Dons have a higher proportion of juniors to total supporters relative to other clubs, they generally have a younger supporter base - relative to other clubs.

This may well be true but is consistent with my point that these wouldn't be affecting junior membership numbers

With regard to the reported Junior Membership total, I believe the AFL have changed their position on Junior categories to now include Squadron memberships as ticketed members.

This is what I was getting at. There had to be some kind of revision of criteris that was responsible for that jump. I still really don't yunderstand how these weren't counted in previous years if they included season tickets

However, Essendon also report that Junior membership in 2008 is up 20%, it's largest growing category in 2008. Given adult membership grew by 2,300 in 2008, these two categories form the majority of its overall growth.

even 20 % is a tad suss. That almost puts you in carlton's league with your junior memberships growing at more than double your adults.

 

[drewie_rama]

No its not end of story, your website is inaccurate then.

Also your fellow posters admit it. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=465740&page=2

worthy of another call to SEN?

 

[Hawkk]

With respect, you have absolutely no idea about the composition of the Essendon membership, or non ticketed component. What you don't know is that what Essendon may call 'non ticketed' may well be stipulated by the AFL as included in the auditered membership results as confirmed yesterday. You also have no idea if a category Essendon called non ticketed is classified as ticketed by the AFL in 2008. The auditing of clubs lists is very serious as it has signficant implications on allocations of finals tickets mainly, and club portions of total tickets available, it is a serious process. It may well have amended its rules classification for what is classsed as 'non ticketed' Vs 2007 rulings.

What Essendon calls non ticketed may well be ticketed at every other club. eg: It is believed Hawthorn have only 2,000 'non ticketed' members... Hawkk tells us this component relates to MCC related packages. Now, you can't tell me that Hawthorn has no membership category for those that can't make it to games but still obtain voting rights and are financial supporters? eg interstate memberhips. Considering Hawkks analysis, Hawthorn obviously count interstate members as 'ticketed'. Where at Essendon they count these as 'non ticketed'.

Whichever way you look at it, Essendon have 42,000 members which is second to Collingwood of the Vic clubs and sells 16,000 annual reserved seats. The AFL have auditered all the clubs lists and confirmed the Essendon figure as published.

If you don't know, you are just speculating. There is no fact in speculation.

That's the end of the story.

What I did say was that the Hawks (as a case in point) have 2 MCC membership categories. MCC Associate - which is ticketed and MCC Supporter - which is not ticketed. I'd assume that other clubs with big support bases in the MCC (Melbourne, Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond) would have similar membership packages to cater for their different elements of their support base.

Its a bit suss that Essendon jumped so much in junior membership while staying relatively stable at adult level, I suspect Essendon has followed the other Victorian clubs and redesigned their membership packages (ie. offering 4 junior memberships with a family ticket) to increase their junior numbers substantially to levels constant with the other Victorian clubs and as a result lifting their membership to compete with the higher membered clubs.

 

[dave_27]

I think it will be a race between Collingwood and Essendon to see who will be the first Victorian Club to reach 50,000 member's. I think it will depend on which club wins a premiership first!

Its one horse race, Collingwood will be the first Vic club with 50k members.

I dont think Essendon can even have 50k members while based out of TD?

 

[gaelictiogar]

I have no doubt that Collingwood would easily be in the top 2 (along with Essendon) for junior support in Victoria. Weather or not it will result in junior memberships time will tell? Collingwood would easily have more supporter's in Victoria under 14 years of age the Richmond! Remember like Dave10 said last year Essendon had one of the lowest junior membership bases last year but does that reflect that in 2007 essedon has one the the lowest junior supporters bases in Victoria? of couse not! same applies for Collingwood in 2008!

You are Speculating Gopies. I'm looking at stats. I'm simply pointing out that the figures provided on this thread showed the poorest performing vic club in living memory with more junior members than either Collingwood or essendon.

I don't doubt there are more kids in school playing fields who support essendon than richmond. I DO very much doubt if a similar percentage will end up as ticket buying fans. Richmond's junior membership figure is staggering given the state of the team in those kids lifetimes.

 

[Rob]

No. Based on the majority of kids following in their parents footsteps. I would say 20% of kids choose a club to support based on their own choice and reasons at the time they get to the age where they decide to follow a club or the game. I think Essendon would have snapped up many of these '20%' between 1993 - 2000. Collingwood will always be strong in this regard, maintaining support amongst the other '80%' that I would think they would be born into. What is MAY mean is, the present generation of kids may be slightly skewed in favour of Essendon as opposed to Collingwood. The rest is genetics.

You may well be right, but most of these kids aren't going to have ticketed memberships. It's not like the kid pays, nor will the kid go to the game on their own. I'd say the bulk of junior memberships are part of a family membership, or a cheap way for people to bump up the membership figures.

 

[Dan26]

You may well be right, but most of these kids aren't going to have ticketed memberships. It's not like the kid pays, nor will the kid go to the game on their own. I'd say the bulk of junior memberships are part of a family membership, or a cheap way for people to bump up the membership figures.

Junior members don't indicate how much junior support you have, anyway.

Junior members are obviously kids, and they are paid for by their parents. So, junior memebrs are just kids who followed their parents and who their parents pay for.

Where my club has an advanatage is the massive surge in kids that CHOSE to barrack for Essendon after the 84-85 premierships (when they were 9-10 years old) and who then started to become members and attending supporters in their own right 10 years later.

Not coincidentally, the mid 90's (10 years after 1985) was when we overtook Collingwood, and the Bombers have led every survey since then. Everyone wanted to barrack for us back then. I was 9 in 1985 and everyone wanted to be an Essendon fan.

It's the people who have CHOSEN to barrack for the Bombers that have given us an advantage in the modern era. These were not junior members, because you don't become a junior member when you're 9 years old UNLESS[/b[ your old man signs you up. No, these are people (young kids) who openly chose to barrack for a different team because of success, and who now are starting to vote with their feet and become members as they become adults.

Junior membership as an indication of "young" support is one of the most irrelevant statistics in the game. It has no correlation to young support. If anything it shows you have older fans, because the only people who are junior members are kids that were forced to follow the same team as their parents.

 

[Dan26]

You are Speculating Gopies. I'm looking at stats. I'm simply pointing out that the figures provided on this thread showed the poorest performing vic club in living memory with more junior members than either Collingwood or essendon.

I don't doubt there are more kids in school playing fields who support essendon than richmond. I DO very much doubt if a similar percentage will end up as ticket buying fans. Richmond's junior membership figure is staggering given the state of the team in those kids lifetimes.

See my post above. Richmond having a large amount of junior members shows they have virtually no young fans. The junior members are just offspring of older fans. And you have a lot of older fans who jumped on board between 1967-1982.

But the fans you need are NOT the ones who follow their parents (the junior members)

No, you need the fans who CHOOSE to barrack for you, because you are succcessful. And where are they? There are not many of them because Richmond hasn't been successful.

The 9 year olds who CHOOSE to barrack for you, will never be junior member, yet ironically, they are the ones you want. Junior memebrs are the ones who follow their parents. A 9 year old who chooses a team on his own (usually a successful team) does not pay for his own membership.

All Richmond have is the sons of older fans. You have lots of older fans, but not many new ones (except the offspring of the older ones, and these are the junior members)

 

[gopies1981]

You are Speculating Gopies. I'm looking at stats. I'm simply pointing out that the figures provided on this thread showed the poorest performing vic club in living memory with more junior members than either Collingwood or essendon.

I don't doubt there are more kids in school playing fields who support essendon than richmond. I DO very much doubt if a similar percentage will end up as ticket buying fans. Richmond's junior membership figure is staggering given the state of the team in those kids lifetimes.

So are you saying that even though Essendon have more junior support then Richmond, Richmond have more Junior Support the Collingwood?

Like I have said Collingwood would easily be in the top 2 for junior Support (under 14) in Victoria along with Essendon. Richmond wouldn't even come close!

 

[gopies1981]

Junior members don't indicate how much junior support you have, anyway.

Junior members are obviously kids, and they are paid for by their parents. So, junior memebrs are just kids who followed their parents and who their parents pay for.

Where my club has an advanatage is the massive surge in kids that CHOSE to barrack for Essendon after the 84-85 premierships (when they were 9-10 years old) and who then started to become members and attending supporters in their own right 10 years later.

Not coincidentally, the mid 90's (10 years after 1985) was when we overtook Collingwood, and the Bombers have led every survey since then. Everyone wanted to barrack for us back then. I was 9 in 1985 and everyone wanted to be an Essendon fan.

It's the people who have CHOSEN to barrack for the Bombers that have given us an advantage in the modern era. These were not junior members, because you don't become a junior member when you're 9 years old UNLESS[/b[ your old man signs you up. No, these are people (young kids) who openly chose to barrack for a different team because of success, and who now are starting to vote with their feet and become members as they become adults.

Junior membership as an indication of "young" support is one of the most irrelevant statistics in the game. It has no correlation to young support. If anything it shows you have older fans, because the only people who are junior members are kids that were forced to follow the same team as their parents.

Again Dan26 please show me in 2008 were Essendon Lead Collingwood in any fan survey's? Roy Morgan Poll and Hearld Sun Survey's Essendon do not lead Collingwood. Essendon also in 2008 have less members then the Pies and are also some 200,000 less in Attendances then Collingwood and are 70,000 less then Carlton. So that would tell you that in 2008 Collingwood are more popular then Essendon!

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

So in summing up:

Collingwood = highest attendances + highest membership + highest average tv audiences = biggest supporter base (victorian clubs at least)

 

[gaelictiogar]

So are you saying that even though Essendon have more junior support then Richmond, Richmond have more Junior Support the Collingwood?

Like I have said Collingwood would easily be in the top 2 for junior Support (under 14) in Victoria along with Essendon. Richmond wouldn't even come close!

Maybe so but if so then the fact that richmond have more junior members has to mean SOMETHING. It can only be that Richmond supporters are on average more likely to buy memberships for their kids than any other club. This would be in step with the widely acknowledged fact that they are the most committed most 'fanatic" if you like fanbase in the game.

 

[tazhawk]

So in summing up:

Collingwood = highest attendances + highest membership + highest average tv audiences = biggest supporter base (victorian clubs at least)

Speaking of highest, you forgot to add that they also have the highest number of Grand Final losses.

25 ...... Ouch.

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

Speaking of highest, you forgot to add that they also have the highest number of Grand Final losses.

25 ...... Ouch.

Cheers Tazhawk, forgot that one

 

[Hearts to hearts]

See my post above. Richmond having a large amount of junior members shows they have virtually no young fans. The junior members are just offspring of older fans. And you have a lot of older fans who jumped on board between 1967-1982.

But the fans you need are NOT the ones who follow their parents (the junior members)

No, you need the fans who CHOOSE to barrack for you, because you are succcessful. And where are they? There are not many of them because Richmond hasn't been successful.

The 9 year olds who CHOOSE to barrack for you, will never be junior member, yet ironically, they are the ones you want. Junior memebrs are the ones who follow their parents. A 9 year old who chooses a team on his own (usually a successful team) does not pay for his own membership.

All Richmond have is the sons of older fans. You have lots of older fans, but not many new ones (except the offspring of the older ones, and these are the junior members)

If you'd like to visit my Auskick, you'd be surprised. Out of hundreds of pre-year 2 kids, more support the Tigers passionately than any other club. I don't get it either, but it's true nevertheless.

 

[gaelictiogar]

If you'd like to visit my Auskick, you'd be surprised. Out of hundreds of pre-year 2 kids, more support the Tigers passionately than any other club. I don't get it either, but it's true nevertheless.

They love the jumper with its bright vivid colours. They love the name. What name could be more evocative than the Mighty Tigers? A Tiger is more attractive to a kid than a magpie or a Kangaroo or a colour. Beautiful and strong the tiger is loved. They have as fathers/uncles etc the most committed most passionate fan base in the game bringing them up to love the Tiges. They are a resource the next good tigerteam will tap into.

 

[Dan26]

If you'd like to visit my Auskick, you'd be surprised. Out of hundreds of pre-year 2 kids, more support the Tigers passionately than any other club. I don't get it either, but it's true nevertheless.

Anecdotal "evidence" is meaningless and irrelevant.

Richmond have had 26 years of failure. Historically success breeeds support. Richmond have not had many younger fans choose to barrack for them over the last 26 years. Why would they?

If you look at how many young fans barrack for the Tigers it would be among the least in the AFL. There is no logic to suggest young kids would gravitate to a club that has missed the finals in 24 of the last 26 years. The morgan survey sugests Richmond fans are more lilely to be aged 35-49 than any other fans.

This tells you, that they generated a heap of support between 1967-1982. And hardly any since.

One thing I do agree with gaelicotiger is that if Richmond were successful, everyone would want to barrack for them. But they havn't been successful. And they have missed out on a generation of support becase of it. Most surveys show that Hawthorn and Geelong are now very close to the Tigers in support.

You would never see that 25 years ago. Richmond were streets ahead of both back then. Now Hawthorn and Geelong are close to Richmond.