Rumour Dees pull out of tough training camp

[Le Grille]

Seriously though, in terms of development and building mental toughness this sort of stuff has it's benefits. Can show people what they are capable of.

Tyson's knee could have happened doing any exercise. I'm sure the fitness staff wouldn't suggest it if they weren't satisfied that it was safe enough.

 

[Ricketz]

Its not a good sign that the coaches are pushing for one thing and the players aren't opting in from a relationship and trust perspective.

Oh dear, of all the people who you would think had learned a lesson about complicity and obeisance to authority, you would think it would be Essendon supporters - but clearly you have not learned one thing from your players doing exactly as you suggested a few years back. Your advice above is exactly why your players became involved in the drugs saga - too few of them questioned dubious decisions from their hierarchy. As far as their physical fitness goes, it is their money maker - no employer should be beyond question, and they have every right to protect their future livelihood.

 

[Taylor]

Not sure about that.
Maybe different for athletes, but I dunno.
Personally, I wouldnt be changing diddly squat because some over ego'd ******* is yelling stuff at me. Seriously, is this 1968?

That is only part of it. You either find it within yourself to go on or you don't. All they are trying to do is keep you moving while the early voices tell you to quit, until your internal strength either pushes you through and you have a new appreciation of your own ability or you don't.

Some people are afraid of finding out they don't, but everyone does.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Imagine the Richmond playing group doing this to Tom Hafey in the 70’s?

Hafey cost Collingwood a few flags by overtraining them in GF week, would have been happy if somebody had have been able to reign him back...but thats an aside.

 

[demondavey]

yes, but... but... surely you can see it was your coaching staff who organised the camp in the first place??

And, for some reason, the playing group had to go over their head to get it stopped. Which can only mean that the Melbourne coaching group think they absolutely DO need to do SAS style training. And the players mutinied over it.

And you think that's a load of over rated spin? Really?!

A. It was to be modified this year given what happened last year.
B. I think it would have been toned down anyway
C. The players still didn't want a piece of it.
D. End thread, move on and focus on some sport specific high intensity training.

 

[Ricketz]

Imagine the Richmond playing group doing this to Tom Hafey in the 70’s?

Imagine the Essendon playing group doing this to Kevin Sheedy in the 80’s?

Imagine the North playing group doing this to Denis Pagan in the 90’s?

Imagine the Brisbane playing group doing this to Leigh Matthews in the 00’s?

Imagine the Hawthorn playing group doing this to Alistair Clarkson in the last 5 years?

This is why Melbourne will always be a pathetic football club

Imagine Salem was at North and walked in to tell Ziebell that? LOL

You have got to do a lot of imagining to make your argument work.

In reality, they would have been the first to blow up about that sort of training technique - as much as you think those guys were tough as - they were semi professional, and not even close to the physical levels of fitness of today's athletes, they wouldn't have lasted one session - given they were used to drinking beers and fanging down prawns at that time of the year. More so, they had bugger all to no knowledge of what was good or bad for their bodies back then.

 

[JVseven]

Imagine Salem was at North and walked in to tell Ziebell that? LOL

Ziebell is tuff as.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

My issue with this is the when and how

This would have been in the planning stages for months, and its yank now? Why didnt the leadership group intervene much earlier?

As for how, running to the aflpa rather than talking to the clubs footy ops manager directly is just sad

Not a knock on melbourne. This is all about modern day players

 

[owen87]

but thats more my point the players don't know what is and what isn't relevant if the club tell you to do something then they should do it and not pick and choose if it was so unsafe then it wouldnt be allowed to run. whats next a player feeling like running 10 laps is to much and only doing 5 etc

Stephen Dank likes this.

 

[demondavey]

Imagine the Richmond playing group doing this to Tom Hafey in the 70’s?

Imagine the Essendon playing group doing this to Kevin Sheedy in the 80’s?

Imagine the North playing group doing this to Denis Pagan in the 90’s?

Imagine the Brisbane playing group doing this to Leigh Matthews in the 00’s?

Imagine the Hawthorn playing group doing this to Alistair Clarkson in the last 5 years?

This is why Melbourne will always be a pathetic football club

Imagine Salem was at North and walked in to tell Ziebell that? LOL

Well you've answered your own question.

2017 is a long way from the 70s, 80s, 90s and even the start of the decade. Sport Science had developed exponentially since those days, and the players calling bullshit on some 'camp' run by a macho insecure full metal jacket drill sergeant is something I've got no issue on.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

A. It was to be modified this year given what happened last year.
B. I think it would have been toned down anyway
C. The players still didn't want a piece of it.
D. End thread, move on and focus on some sport specific high intensity training.

but... if A and B then C is absurd. And therefore so is D. How can you be giving it the old move on nothing to see here treatment?

The players and the coaches are fundamentally at odds. The players had to get the union to step in. You yourself think that "the players don't need some SAS style training camp unless they're actually training for the SAS. It's 2017 and we are playing football for gods sake, just because they aren't standing in front of some drill sergeant with about as much relevance in the world as my nearly cut grass".

And yet this is clearly not what your club's coaches think. To the point that union intervention was required?

Why didn't the coaches accede to the players demands themselves?

How is that nothing to see here?

 

[demondavey]

Hafey cost Collingwood a few flags by overtraining them in GF week

The mindset of training until physical and mental exhaustion does not stand up scientifically. It just doesn't. In 2017 with staff paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, there is just no relevance.

One player ruined his knee last year, one got concussed. That's bullshit. This is professional sport. Tyson had an awful year last year and it was due to that injury. He couldn't even start in round one, so couldn't build a proper fitness base.

This isn't about being defiant, it's about being intelligent.

 

[Ricketz]

Seriously though, in terms of development and building mental toughness this sort of stuff has it's benefits. Can show people what they are capable of.

Tyson's knee could have happened doing any exercise. I'm sure the fitness staff wouldn't suggest it if they weren't satisfied that it was safe enough.

Yeah, these guys have made it onto an AFL playing list. I am pretty sure they know what they are capable of.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

The mindset of training until physical and mental exhaustion does not stand up scientifically. It just doesn't. In 2017 with staff paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, there is just no relevance.

One player ruined his knee last year, one got concussed. That's bullshit. This is professional sport. Tyson had an awful year last year and it was due to that injury. He couldn't even start in round one, so couldn't build a proper fitness base.

This isn't about being defiant, it's about being intelligent.

perhaps someone should tell Goodwin and co?

It's strange in the extreme that some Melbourne supporters are acting as though this camp was forced on them by the AFL or something.

Well no, this was a Melbourne planned event, that wasn't cancelled by Melbourne.

It's one of the strangest preseason stories I've heard, that's for sure

 

[Proper Gander]

A. It was to be modified this year given what happened last year.
B. I think it would have been toned down anyway
C. The players still didn't want a piece of it.
D. End thread, move on and focus on some sport specific high intensity training.

I think you may have missed Uppercut’s point in there somewhere - it is concerning that communication between coaching group and players is somehow fractured to the point where the players feel they need assistance from their reps in this matter. None of this indicates a good culture or a happy workplace, and these are two things that undeniably do affect results.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I think you may have missed Uppercut’s point in there somewhere - it is concerning that communication between coaching group and players is somehow fractured to the point where the players feel they need assistance from their reps in this matter. None of this indicates a good culture or a happy workplace, and these are two things that undeniably do affect results.

exactly.

The only other option is that the players did tell the coaches, and the coaches reacted like many in this thread, possibly using some kind of juxtaposition of the words "soft" and "utensils", and told them to suit up and grab a backpack.

Which clearly went down about as well as a brick on the head if that's the case

 

[ApplecrossWC]

Not surprising, they are soft as butter. When you have someone like Bernie Vince trying to rough up other players it's laughable.

 

[Ricketz]

but... if A and B then C is absurd. And therefore so is D. How can you be giving it the old move on nothing to see here treatment?

The players and the coaches are fundamentally at odds. The players had to get the union to step in. You yourself think that "the players don't need some SAS style training camp unless they're actually training for the SAS. It's 2017 and we are playing football for gods sake, just because they aren't standing in front of some drill sergeant with about as much relevance in the world as my nearly cut grass".

And yet this is clearly not what your club's coaches think. To the point that union intervention was required?

Why didn't the coaches accede to the players demands themselves?

How is that nothing to see here?

Oh, come on - its clear you guys are trolling. You are speculating big time - on a topic that the players clearly should be praised for, if we have learned anything from the Essendon saga and repeat concussion issue. Players need to protect their livelihood, but you think their bodies are for your entertainment only. Its a pretty immature perspective, to be honest.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

My issue with this is the when and how

This would have been in the planning stages for months, and its yank now? Why didnt the leadership group intervene much earlier?

As for how, running to the aflpa rather than talking to the clubs footy ops manager directly is just sad

Not a knock on melbourne. This is all about modern day players

Spot on

Its not the why

Its the when and how.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The mindset of training until physical and mental exhaustion does not stand up scientifically. It just doesn't. In 2017 with staff paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, there is just no relevance.

One player ruined his knee last year, one got concussed. That's bullshit. This is professional sport. Tyson had an awful year last year and it was due to that injury. He couldn't even start in round one, so couldn't build a proper fitness base.

This isn't about being defiant, it's about being intelligent.

All true but you surely have to admit the appallingly late timing of the cancellation and the fact that the players had to bring the AFLPA into it surely raises questions.

 

[Bluelegs]

I have two thoughts on this:

1. Goodwin is a nutter with his army “push em to the limit” approach.

2. Endless fuel for opposition sledgers. This will not go well for the dees public image.

Yeah think Goodwin needs his head pulled in on this one. Shame it had to come to the players seeking support from the AFLPA.

On the second point I agree but only if we play s**t football next year. Winning solves everything.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Oh, come on - its clear you guys are trolling. You are speculating big time - on a topic that the players clearly should be praised for, if we have learned anything from the Essendon saga and repeat concussion issue. Players need to protect their livelihood, but you think their bodies are for your entertainment only. Its a pretty immature perspective, to be honest.

That’s not the point though.

The point is that the coaching staff have proposed this game again.
And that the players have had to speak to The aflpa.

So whether uou think the players should toughen up or be better looked after, it appears to be the case that Melbourne FC hold BOTH positions on the matter.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Hafey cost Collingwood a few flags by overtraining them in GF week, would have been happy if somebody had have been able to reign him back...but thats an aside.

Hafey did get Collingwood to four GF's in six seasons. Given they didn't play in a GF for six seasons pre-Hafey and seven seasons post-Hafey, an alternative view might be that his methods worked.

 

[captain cotch 9]

Weak.

Political correctness has gone mad!

uhhhh...how is that political correctness....?

 

[Tiger Toffee]

So essentially you're just trolling?

No not really, weak hearted players will always look for ways to take the easy way out meanwhile our new draftees were sent into the Tasmanian wilderness for a tough hiking trip in appalling conditions and they didn't complain.