Mod. Notice Depressed? Anxious? Call Beyond Blue (1300 224636), Lifeline (131114), resources in OP

[Lithium]

You talking about Fergus Miller? That was really sad. It does hurt when beloved musicians die - they have a huge impact on our emotional worlds.

Yeah I am. Had seen him a few with times with bored nothing and had a few words, was a lovely person and it's such a shame that his gone now. He left some great music behind though.

 

[Gone Critical]

I appreciate this.
The last few days I have laid it all out there for more parents to see. Drug use, impulsive behaviour, suicidal ideations, all of that and more. They met with my psychiatrist and are now aware of my diagnoses and how we are going fourth with treating them. They were upset, but you were right, they wen't angry and have made it clear that they want nothing other than me to get better.

I had a slight set back yesterday with one of my favourite musicians taking their life which with my current situation hurt quite a bit, but it also put things into perspective, i don't want to make a rash decision and hurt those who clearly do care for me.

Im sure I'm still going to provide a fair amount of trouble for them but as of right now I'm going to give it everything I have got. Working on taking small steps like trying to find some work will be where I'm going to start.

I really do appreciate the comments and advice people have given. Sometimes I feel as if I'm loosing control and there is now way out, but knowing that so many people have come out the other side really does help.

I can understand how a favourite musician taking there own life can affect you. Let me tell you though suicide is just so damaging. It's a desperate act and causes massive damage. There is no romance or or nobility attached to it. A life worth living is lost and those left behind are damaged and devestated.

The effects go well beyond your immediate circles of family and friends. There is a life lost and a major hole left in the lives of many others. Please always see there are better options and help is available. Be open with your family and doctors counsellors. Don't be afraid to tell them even the dark stuff. Keeping stuff in doesn't help and interferes with you getting help. Good luck.

 

[BattlerGM]

Good point. It's a starting point, but regardless of guarantees or popular myths it isn't an infallible path to a solution.

I've personally found 'talking with some one' and using meds a waste of time. I'll be looking into Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT) aka shock therapy.

Anybody have any experience with ECT?

 

[mxett]

I've personally found 'talking with some one' and using meds a waste of time. I'll be looking into Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT) aka shock therapy.

Anybody have any experience with ECT?

have you tried ACT?

 

[Matt Stevic]

Yeah I am. Had seen him a few with times with bored nothing and had a few words, was a lovely person and it's such a shame that his gone now. He left some great music behind though.

I know this probably isn't much help but I know how you feel.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ri...y/news-story/47909b802ea4105e665563164edcb97d
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...g/news-story/75c6af786154206b3d4fe1962f70dacf

I was very close with Kirsten, got to know her from about 2012 onwards after meeting through uni. I could sense that things weren't travelling so well for her in the lead up to her death, but I couldn't piece things together until after the fact. I felt responsible, she never held anything back and I should have been there to support her. I hadn't seen her in about 2 weeks when she died, and I was just about to get in touch with her to hang out...but I decided it could wait because I was snowed under with uni work. I was lucky enough to have a great support network at the time, if this happened now things would be a lot worse.

The suicide of someone close to us, whether we've known them since birth or they influenced us from afar, is always difficult. Hang in there.

 

[Defabs]

I've personally found 'talking with some one' and using meds a waste of time. I'll be looking into Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT) aka shock therapy.

Anybody have any experience with ECT?

Hi, it's my first post on this thread.

For 15 years, I've suffered from major depression (moreso atypical depression in recent years) and OCD and up until 3 months ago, had been on pretty much all SSRIs, SNRIs and a few others not belonging to a particular class (ie Avanza)

My psych recommended a MAOI three months ago, which I procrastinated about taking and just sat on the script for a month.

I finally decided to take the plunge as my mental health was deteriorating once more. At this stage, I'm tirating up slowly; am still on 40mg but I can definite feel a lifting of symptoms across the board.

The food restrictions still need to be respected but are grossly exaggerated, which was why I avoided taking the medication. I've cut aged cheeses, meats, vegemite, soy and beer/wine from my diet, which is no big issue compared to the pain of depression.

It's still early days but I want to give this a real shot. I haven't experienced any real side effects except for occasional low blood pressure. Most psychs perceive this a last resort medication because of the potential for increased blood pressure from not adhering to the diet but I'll definitely be singing its praises if I continue to improve.

Also Maois improve all major transmitters in the brain continue dopamine, which SSRIs don't target obviously.

 

[Fossie 32]

Hi, it's my first post on this thread.

For 15 years, I've suffered from major depression (moreso atypical depression in recent years) and OCD and up until 3 months ago, had been on pretty much all SSRIs, SNRIs and a few others not belonging to a particular class (ie Avanza)

My psych recommended a MAOI three months ago, which I procrastinated about taking and just sat on the script for a month.

I finally decided to take the plunge as my mental health was deteriorating once more. At this stage, I'm tirating up slowly; am still on 40mg but I can definite feel a lifting of symptoms across the board.

The food restrictions still need to be respected but are grossly exaggerated, which was why I avoided taking the medication. I've cut aged cheeses, meats, vegemite, soy and beer/wine from my diet, which is no big issue compared to the pain of depression.

It's still early days but I want to give this a real shot. I haven't experienced any real side effects except for occasional low blood pressure. Most psychs perceive this a last resort medication because of the potential for increased blood pressure from not adhering to the diet but I'll definitely be singing its praises if I continue to improve.

Also Maois improve all major transmitters in the brain continue dopamine, which SSRIs don't target obviously.

Hope things keep getting better for you bro

 

[Al Kemy]

I've personally found 'talking with some one' and using meds a waste of time. I'll be looking into Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT) aka shock therapy.

Anybody have any experience with ECT?

If you are interested there is a site called mens psychology .com. There are reasons why talking things out dont always work for men. We are all different and what has helped me might not work for you but if it helps one of you im happy. Traditional talk therapy resulted in me being aware of every little emotion and thought that enters my head , it affected me to a point i could not handle social situations for two years. It also put me in denial about my enviroment and lifestyle. For me it wasn't all in my head, i really was unhappy about my life, i lacked the skills to handle the lifestyle i was in. For me this was a relief, taking physical action is something i can do. Having others tell me for years its in my head, negative thoughts etc made me extremely fearfull as i have little control over my 30 odd thousand thoughts a day.
If any of that sparked some interest im happy to share any info i have.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

If you are interested there is a site called mens psychology .com. There are reasons why talking things out dont always work for men. We are all different and what has helped me might not work for you but if it helps one of you im happy. Traditional talk therapy resulted in me being aware of every little emotion and thought that enters my head , it affected me to a point i could not handle social situations for two years. It also put me in denial about my enviroment and lifestyle. For me it wasn't all in my head, i really was unhappy about my life, i lacked the skills to handle the lifestyle i was in. For me this was a relief, taking physical action is something i can do. Having others tell me for years its in my head, negative thoughts etc made me extremely fearfull as i have little control over my 30 odd thousand thoughts a day.
If any of that sparked some interest im happy to share any info i have.

Thanks for sharing. This definitely resonates with me a bit. Much appreciated.

 

[KO_KO]

Hey all, posted on this thread a while back but thought i'd share an update.

Just finished moving house and about to swap jobs, this would not have been possible 2 years ago, you WILL get better, just take care of yourself and listen to good advice.

One thing that helped me greatly was meditation. There is nothing mysterious or new age about it IMO, just concentrating on your breathing.

A fantastic and free Australian app is Smililng Mind, i would encourage you to try it if you're an anxiety sufferer like me.

 

[Matt Stevic]

Two years ago tomorrow I had a close friend take her own life (have posted about this on here before).

Last year was not as bad because I was living in Toowoomba but this year I've been feeling rubbish anyway...thinking about this just makes it worse.

The self hatred is really kicking in. I am beating myself up fiercely for not stopping it from happening in the first place, and also for feeling guilty about it when she can't feel anything at all.

I just want to stay inside all weekend. Shut myself in. But my idiotic family won't let that happen.

 

[sameolds33]

A Facebook friend recently shared this article, for the second time since it was published in September last year and, this time, I read it. It is the best thing I have come across for supporting someone in grief. The advice that, "some things in life cannot be fixed. They can only be carried." is powerful in its truth.

http://www.womensagenda.com.au/talk...hing-doesn-t-happen-for-a-reason#.Vi7QhvkrKUl

 

[Gone Critical]

A Facebook friend recently shared this article, for the second time since it was published in September last year and, this time, I read it. It is the best thing I have come across for supporting someone in grief. The advice that, "some things in life cannot be fixed. They can only be carried." is powerful in its truth.

http://www.womensagenda.com.au/talk...hing-doesn-t-happen-for-a-reason#.Vi7QhvkrKUl

Thanks for that link. Interesting take but I found it a bit too strong and dogmatic. I wonder whether the strong feelings in it come from a US background with a strong Christian fundamentalism behind it that the writer is railing against. Words themselves are not necessarily the strongest support here. It's really the thought and empathy behind the words. In many of the worst situations there are no words and whether a person tries to fill that space with some thoughts, gives silent support or empathises with actions can all work. Knowing people care even when there is nothing they can change helps.

 

[Gone Critical]

Two years ago tomorrow I had a close friend take her own life (have posted about this on here before).

Last year was not as bad because I was living in Toowoomba but this year I've been feeling rubbish anyway...thinking about this just makes it worse.

The self hatred is really kicking in. I am beating myself up fiercely for not stopping it from happening in the first place, and also for feeling guilty about it when she can't feel anything at all.

I just want to stay inside all weekend. Shut myself in. But my idiotic family won't let that happen.

That's painful. Can understand that feeling of wanting to lock your self away. Those are tough thoughts and pretty common in the circumstance I reckon. Pretty natural to look at what you could have done. Truth almost is always you couldn't have stopped it happening. Ask the questions sure but don't beat yourself up.

This weekend being an anniversary could be bringing all those feelings back up. The fact that you care so much I am sure also means you were a good friend and a help. Just hard to see that sometimes.

Good luck.

 

[sameolds33]

Thanks for that link. Interesting take but I found it a bit too strong and dogmatic. I wonder whether the strong feelings in it come from a US background with a strong Christian fundamentalism behind it that the writer is railing against. Words themselves are not necessarily the strongest support here. It's really the thought and empathy behind the words. In many of the worst situations there are no words and whether a person tries to fill that space with some thoughts, gives silent support or empathises with actions can all work. Knowing people care even when there is nothing they can change helps.

Interesting, I found it extremely empathetic. The writer says, "The ones who helped—the only ones who helped—were those who were there. And said nothing." So I think you're saying the same thing as the writer. Empathy is all that is needed. As he says, all you need to say is, "I acknowledge your pain. I am here with you." And then, of course, be there. Agree with you that it is possible that his forceful rejection of the "everything happens for a reason" platitude could be due to his opposition of the US Christian fundamentalist narrative although there was nothing in that article that led me to think that the advice was anything but sound and supportive of the person in grief.

 

[Gone Critical]

Interesting, I found it extremely empathetic. The writer says, "The ones who helped—the only ones who helped—were those who were there. And said nothing." So I think you're saying the same thing as the writer. Empathy is all that is needed. As he says, all you need to say is, "I acknowledge your pain. I am here with you." And then, of course, be there. Agree with you that it is possible that his forceful rejection of the "everything happens for a reason" platitude could be due to his opposition of the US Christian fundamentalist narrative although there was nothing in that article that led me to think that the advice was anything but sound and supportive of the person in grief.

No my point was more if you say nothing or say something or if stumble and say something not very helpful because it's really hard to work out what to say it's the empathy and care behind the thought that counts. I think concentrating on the words alone may make you miss the feeling behind them.

 

[sameolds33]

No my point was more if you say nothing or say something or if stumble and say something not very helpful because it's really hard to work out what to say it's the empathy and care behind the thought that counts. I think concentrating on the words alone may make you miss the feeling behind them.

ah, yes. I see. Again, the writer makes the point that we've all done that. Given advice and platitudes trying to help our friends in need. I know I have. But the bigger point is that it's not about us trying to help, even if we fall short. It's about actually providing help, not about our best efforts being good enough because we meant well. A person in pain isn't going to see that. Someone else pointed this video out to me which perhaps makes the same point in a more humourous, less forceful way you might prefer:



(Brene Brown empathy)

 

[Gone Critical]

ah, yes. I see. Again, the writer makes the point that we've all done that. Given advice and platitudes trying to help our friends in need. I know I have. But the bigger point is that it's not about us trying to help, even if we fall short. It's about actually providing help, not about our best efforts being good enough because we meant well. A person in pain isn't going to see that. Someone else pointed this video out to me which perhaps makes the same point in a more humourous, less forceful way you might prefer:



(Brene Brown empathy)

Sorry I may be being difficult but I didn't like that video either. My first call on this is is grief is multi faceted and is often not a one way street. There is no prescriptive one size fits all way of doing it. That first article where the author claims all certain actions and statements are inappropriate is just wrong. There are so many differences to every situation no one has such answers. Likewise the claim that the only ones who help is the friend who stands there in silence is fine for that person but to say that is only what works for everyone is over the top.

The video to me was fundamentally flawed. The person talking didn't really seem to understand the difference between sympathy and empathy. Sympathy was presented as being flawed. Again that's just wrong. Both are virtuous and appropriate depending on the circumstance and both could be innapropriate at times. To empathise with someone there has to be some common ground otherwise sympathy would be a much better response. Example if you were healthy and a close friend had just been diagnosed with a terminal illness sympathy not empathy would be appropriate. To say " I am really thinking of you at this time and will try to support you, I can't really imagine how you must be feeling" would be a much better response than " I can really feel your pain and understand what you are going through so I would like to support you as much as I can". Empathy and sympathy really have different best situations, one isn't better than the other as was suggested.

The other thing both these things neglect is that grief was presented as a one way street. Not only is it much more multifaceted that these articles/ videos suggest it is much more often a 2 way street or even a multi lane freeway. Their ideas seem based just on the one person suffering and the other supporting. That is too simplistic for mine. There are lots of examples I could give but some would be parents losing a child, both would be grieving and supporting at the same time, changes the dynamic greatly and suddenly these golden rules of supporting others or obtaining what you need are turned on their head. A group of friends who lose one of their group to illness or suicide, there will be a mass of competing supports and needs, some will need more support and will give more support but they are all grieving, maybe at different levels so all have needs as well as something to offer.

I just think grief is far to multifaceted and complicated for people to come out with such dogmatic and prescriptive ideas about how it should be done. There are a thousand ways and what works for these authors may be a disaster for me.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[sameolds33]

I just think grief is far to multifaceted and complicated for people to come out with such dogmatic and prescriptive ideas about how it should be done. There are a thousand ways and what works for these authors may be a disaster for me.

Sorry for the rant.

No worries, I think I see where we differ - i think grief is a relatively simple emotion. It's overwhelming pain that can't be fixed or cured or jollied out of by thinking that it's happened for a reason and that healing/good will eventually come out of it. In my experience, the person in grief is often oblivious to and fails to appreciate the efforts that the other person is making to support them, whether it's "right" or "wrong". However, they do find certain behaviours irritating and unhelpful. And platitudes and advice fall into the annoying behaviour category.

So, offering advice/solutions on how to make it better seems pointless to me unless you are a trained professional that has been consulted to address that. If you are family or friend, it's not your job to judge them at that point of vulnerability. Fact is, they won't get better until the grieving process allows. That's the message I take from both the article and the video. It's not saying, "this is how it is done" so much as it says, "it is not helpful to do that." As a support person, it's hard to stand in that uncomfortable place with the person in pain. It's hard to be told that doing any less than that is unhelpful, when we are trying the best we can. But at the end of the day, it's not about us.

 

[Gone Critical]

No worries, I think I see where we differ - i think grief is a relatively simple emotion. It's overwhelming pain that can't be fixed or cured or jollied out of by thinking that it's happened for a reason and that healing/good will eventually come out of it. In my experience, the person in grief is often oblivious to and fails to appreciate the efforts that the other person is making to support them, whether it's "right" or "wrong". However, they do find certain behaviours irritating and unhelpful. And platitudes and advice fall into the annoying behaviour category.

So, offering advice/solutions on how to make it better seems pointless to me unless you are a trained professional that has been consulted to address that. If you are family or friend, it's not your job to judge them at that point of vulnerability. Fact is, they won't get better until the grieving process allows. That's the message I take from both the article and the video. It's not saying, "this is how it is done" so much as it says, "it is not helpful to do that." As a support person, it's hard to stand in that uncomfortable place with the person in pain. It's hard to be told that doing any less than that is unhelpful, when we are trying the best we can. But at the end of the day, it's not about us.

I like your description of grief. I don't subscribe to the idea it happens for a reason or such guff. Platitudes by their very definition are not going to be useful but advice and words don't equal platitudes. I just found the article too dogmatic in the author telling other people what was useful and what was not helpful.

The video I would just get back to the idea that it's not much use to put out a video about empathy and sympathy when you clearly don't understand the difference between the two. Tha initial statement "empathy fuels connection , sympathy drives disconnection" is just blatantly wrong. It's not good to characterise sympathy as a negative. Platitudes whether sympathetic or empathetic are not useful. They used examples where trite or superficial sympathetic responses were negatives and that would be right. That doesn't equate with sympathy causing disconnection in general.

Equally an empathetic platitude would cause disconnection not connection. If say a female friend or relative confided in me that they had been sexually assaulted and all I could come up with were empathetic platitudes like " l can feel your pain, I can really understand what you are going through" I would pretty quickly lose connection with that person. If I gave a much deeper and meaningful sympathetic response like " wow that sounds horrific, I couldn't begin to understand how difficult this must be for you but I hope confiding in me can be helpful to you" I am a much better chance of staying connected with that person.

 

[telsor]

Just as a bit of an aside for anyone who still thinks that depression is a sign of weakness in any way.

Senator Scott Ludlum has just taken a leave of absence from parliament to deal with his depression and anxiety.

Whatever you might think of his politics, you don't get a job like that without being extremely capable and strong willed, and I dare say he'd have had a strong support network backing him. That someone in his situation has found it all overwhelming shows how tough the journey can be sometimes.

Stay strong.

 

[BattlerGM]

There's said to be strong links between gut health and mental health. Been reading up on it and watching stuff on youtube. I even read an article that referred to the gut as 'the second brain'. Anyone looked into this for themselves or had any dealings with it?

I'm trying out a few changes in diet, vitamin supplements and probiotics. It's probably all hocus-pocus but I figure it's worth a shot.

 

[mxett]

There's said to be strong links between gut health and mental health. Been reading up on it and watching stuff on youtube. I even read an article that referred to the gut as 'the second brain'. Anyone looked into this for themselves or had any dealings with it?

I'm trying out a few changes in diet, vitamin supplements and probiotics. It's probably all hocus-pocus but I figure it's worth a shot.

amazing you just mentioned this, I've been researching exactly the same stuff over the last few weeks! Research is now showing there are enormous links between diet, gut health, and overall health and well being, including mental health. There is so much information describing this on youtube. This information isnt just coming from nutritionists or naturopaths, it's also coming from a vast array of medical fields including neurology, psychiatry, cardiology, gastoenterology, orthopaedics, and general physicians. Specific to mental health, have a look at the information provided by Dr Kelly Brogan on youtube. She's a conventionally trained psychiatrist in the US who has changed her treatment strategies to diet and nutrition, and is seeing amazing results.

On the back of this, and so much other evidence I've seen, I have radically changed my diet to exclude all processed foods, and include vitamins and probiotics, and so far the signs are very encouraging. If anyone wants more info pm me.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

I've posted on here a few times while going through depression and anxiety. I went through a workers comp claim that I won but the department sent me straight back to my direct employer.

I started off really well and received a letter of commendation after my first term back. Everything went well mentally and I felt 95% on top of my game. This last term admin have changed things around and are shadowing me at work although I haven't had any notice of poor performance. I've just had a relapse and have struggled to work at the best if my ability. I have a young family with another child on the way and am really scared at what our future holds.

I feel like I'm not coping with the added pressure at work that has come out of the blue. I want to get through this but cant stop dwelling on the negative and the resentment towards my admin. I still can't believe I won my case yet I'm sent back to the place that harrased me. I feel it's like history repeating.

 

[Ando727]

I've posted on here a few times while going through depression and anxiety. I went through a workers comp claim that I won but the department sent me straight back to my direct employer.

I started off really well and received a letter of commendation after my first term back. Everything went well mentally and I felt 95% on top of my game. This last term admin have changed things around and are shadowing me at work although I haven't had any notice of poor performance. I've just had a relapse and have struggled to work at the best if my ability. I have a young family with another child on the way and am really scared at what our future holds.

I feel like I'm not coping with the added pressure at work that has come out of the blue. I want to get through this but cant stop dwelling on the negative and the resentment towards my admin. I still can't believe I won my case yet I'm sent back to the place that harrased me. I feel it's like history repeating.

Hey mate, sorry to hear about your struggles. Are you actively looking for another job? I'd be doing that if I were you. These situations rarely resolve in a harmonious way once they start. I know you probably can't walk away from it while you are expecting a new baby, but there's no reason you can't start applying for other jobs. Of course, that's stressful in itself, starting again somewhere, but I think it will probably be easier than what you're dealing with now. Hopefully someday soon you can tell these jerks to stick it and go somewhere nicer.