Do we need another AFL Club or are there too many as it is?

[kane249]

That's the point though, Victoria happens to be a huge chuck of the revenue of the game. The AFL has to be very careful before slashing teams because fans can and do leave the game. If they slashed the number of teams in Victoria and redistributed them to other states, there's likely to be a (big) net loss rather than a gain to league revenue. You don't slash your main constituency. This idea that smaller clubs are such a drain on the league is nonsense. The money that the AFL helps the smaller clubs with is really tiny compared to what they reap from keeping them with regard to broadcast rights. Also, keeping them around ensures decent attendance rates in Melbourne. Attendance would drop if teams were redistributed around the country. Whether the market is overcrowded in Melbourne is also debateable. Victoria's population is growing faster than the rest often country - Melbourne is a big piece of that.

-The AFL has slashed the number of teams in Melbourne twice already (Fitzroy and South Melbourne), both times its resulted in long term gain to revenue.
-If you relocate a team to another market the number of teams in the league stays the same, there is no impact on the broadcast deal.
-Again see back to point 1, the attendance rates in Melbourne has grown despite 2 clubs getting culled. The loss of a few thousand Fitzroy / South Melbourne supporters has been covered over by the influx of new fans to the game over time.
-Victoria's growth rate is a whole 0.5% bigger than the next best, this is hardly a dominant figure to be beating your chest about.

If you want a rough population breakdown Vs teams:
NSW 7.7M / 2 = 3.85M per team
Queensland 4.8M/2 = 2.4M
WA 2.6M / 2 = 1.3M
SA 1.7M / 2 = 850K
VIC 6M / 10 = 600K

That's bare bones figures and not taking into consideration people who don't follow other sports, but no matter how you dress it up Victoria is the most strained state when it comes to resources as a result.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

So how much less money will come into the game with 6 games on TV every week instead of 9?

Less money comes in but less to teams to support, its all relative.
Divide the TV rights by 18 teams, once you have that figure then multiply it by 12 and that will be the tv rights number. It will always work out roughly the same money.

 

[Big Animal]

Imagine a scenario where there isn't a new team or two which takes nearly all of the top 10 draft picks every year, regardless of where they finish on the ladder. Then young top draft picks can begin with a club, learn from experienced and loyal players and leaders (not left overs and sell outs), and enjoy a one club career with the support and to the enjoyment of the club's supporters.


So in answer to OP: No. We need a decent break from the current craziness.

 

[Freshwater]

-The AFL has slashed the number of teams in Melbourne twice already (Fitzroy and South Melbourne), both times its resulted in long term gain to revenue.
-If you relocate a team to another market the number of teams in the league stays the same, there is no impact on the broadcast deal.
-Again see back to point 1, the attendance rates in Melbourne has grown despite 2 clubs getting culled. The loss of a few thousand Fitzroy / South Melbourne supporters has been covered over by the influx of new fans to the game over time.
-Victoria's growth rate is a whole 0.5% bigger than the next best, this is hardly a dominant figure to be beating your chest about.

If you want a rough population breakdown Vs teams:
NSW 7.7M / 2 = 3.85M per team
Queensland 4.8M/2 = 2.4M
WA 2.6M / 2 = 1.3M
SA 1.7M / 2 = 850K
VIC 6M / 10 = 600K

That's bare bones figures and not taking into consideration people who don't follow other sports, but no matter how you dress it up Victoria is the most strained state when it comes to resources as a result.

You are a dry statistician, you completely forget passion and history. That passion that keeps you going to the footy knowing your team can't win this week or this year. Because it's in your blood and your mum dads blood and their parents and so on. Victorians GO to the footy week in week out, it's cold in winter and this is what we do. If you want to be a part of it good, but don't tell us who's in our league and who is not. We've had enough vandals in the corridors of power over a few decades.

 

[Bokonon_]

Imagine a scenario where there isn't a new team or two which takes nearly all of the top 10 draft picks every year, regardless of where they finish on the ladder. Then young top draft picks can begin with a club, learn from experienced and loyal players and leaders (not left overs and sell outs), and enjoy a one club career with the support and to the enjoyment of the club's supporters.


So in answer to OP: No. We need a decent break from the current craziness.

You forgot world peace and justice for all. Sound a bit like a Miss world acceptance speech anyway. First time I've heard the expansion clubs are solely responsible for player movement though.
Kudos for originality.

 

[Ando727]

-The AFL has slashed the number of teams in Melbourne twice already (Fitzroy and South Melbourne), both times its resulted in long term gain to revenue.
-If you relocate a team to another market the number of teams in the league stays the same, there is no impact on the broadcast deal.
-Again see back to point 1, the attendance rates in Melbourne has grown despite 2 clubs getting culled. The loss of a few thousand Fitzroy / South Melbourne supporters has been covered over by the influx of new fans to the game over time.
-Victoria's growth rate is a whole 0.5% bigger than the next best, this is hardly a dominant figure to be beating your chest about.

If you want a rough population breakdown Vs teams:
NSW 7.7M / 2 = 3.85M per team
Queensland 4.8M/2 = 2.4M
WA 2.6M / 2 = 1.3M
SA 1.7M / 2 = 850K
VIC 6M / 10 = 600K

That's bare bones figures and not taking into consideration people who don't follow other sports, but no matter how you dress it up Victoria is the most strained state when it comes to resources as a result.

Your stats are frozen in time. It's a dynamic equation. The Victorian market is still growing - at a faster rate than the rest of the country. For that reason alone, you would gain nothing from slashing the number of teams in Victoria. As you have seen, expanding into non-AFL territory has been very modest growth. And in fact, if you consider the amount of resources that have been poured into the new territories, it's a significant loss to the league. Now, who do you think is funding that expansion? It's the heartland. It's Victoria first, WA second, SA third. They can't slash because that's their meal ticket. When Fitzroy and Sydney left the competition, it was two teams out of 12. That's a smaller hit than cutting 2-4 more teams out of 10. The percentage loss is enormous and there would be significant loss in revenue.

We've seen that expansion is expensive. So why anyone would think it's a good idea to expand the competition at the same time as shrinking its revenue and supporter base has a poor grasp of the situation. When you expand in any business, you must retain the core of your business or you expose yourself to unacceptable risk. By using blunt statistics like population divided by number of teams, you're completely failing to analyse the revenue of the game, the breakdown of AFL/non-AFL heartland regions, and the projected growth rates. Without that analysis, stats don't mean anything.

 

[Kwality]

WA and SA never had teams in the AFL that folded. I'm talking about the AFL here, and how they should be protecting their patch. Oh, and I know people who supported both South Melbourne and Fitzroy who never came back to the game after they were relocated - and it's well acknowledged in Melbourne that this happened. I could give you other examples, but they are the most relevant. It would be even more dramatic if the AFL just folded teams without relocation. You don't give a threatening rival like soccer an opening.

I agree some people will be lost, but there is churn anyway but that's happens when change occurs - footy talkback is full of people who don't go anymore for any number of reasons.
I'm on about whats best for our game & driving the standard down by bringing in a team made up of people who already on a n AFL list will do that - how did a team of kids perform ( two of, the Suns, the Giants go), how did the Bombers top up go? Teams wanted 2 games a season against these guys for a reason, they were not up to. Are you looking for a repeat, sure sounds like it.

Tough decisions made for the right reasons will always be debated & the current FIX in the fixtures is a good reason why less not more should be the way our game goes.

 

[Randy Campbell]

Expansion will go to where the TV sets are currently not watching.

 

[Kwality]

Why is it that the reaction to anybody willing to suggest less teams is to say "your team can go"

If the talent isn't there, and the population watching the product isn't there, it's not good to have as many teams as the AFL does

The league is making money from a TV deal that's the result of good PR, rather than good management

 

[marty36]

Expansion will go to where the TV sets are currently not watching.

Northern Queensland BullFrogs has a nice ring to it!

 

[JPetro83]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Lions#cite_note-1
OK. How about you explain how the "Fitzroy" was added to the "Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club Limited Trading as Brisbane Lions Australian Football Club." You tell me your version and then I'll tell you what really happened.



The merger did NOT happen. The Bears re-branded their club. The "Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club Limited, Trading as Brisbane Lions Australian Football Club" was established as a club in 1987 and continues to this day in the AFL.

No, go ahead.. tell me what really happened.

 

[Kwality]

You are a dry statistician, you completely forget passion and history. That passion that keeps you going to the footy knowing your team can't win this week or this year. Because it's in your blood and your mum dads blood and their parents and so on. Victorians GO to the footy week in week out, it's cold in winter and this is what we do. If you want to be a part of it good, but don't tell us who's in our league and who is not. We've had enough vandals in the corridors of power over a few decades.

So why did you take the money paid by clubs to join - aren't you just a fraud? What did you do with the money, P155 it up against the wall trying to be competitive?

Did you get a cut out last year from the AFL from the equalisation fund?

A fraud & a bludger may be accurate.

Reality is its a national comp & the Commission needs to make decisions for the good of our game nationally not pander to a bunch of people who claim to be 'special' as they look in their rear vision mirror.

 

[marty36]

So why did you take the money paid by clubs to join - aren't you just a fraud? What did you do with the money, P155 it up against the wall trying to be competitive?

Did you get a cut out last year from the AFL from the equalisation fund?

A fraud & a bludger may be accurate.

Reality is its a national comp & the Commission needs to make decisions for the good of our game nationally not pander to a bunch of people who claim to be 'special' as they look in their rear vision mirror.

Will never happen whilst one states teams can vote in and out a commision that suits their agenda

 

[cartel]

As a supporter of one of the smallest club in AFL terms, I would not watch the AFL again if St Kilda were folded.
Would just watch Basketball and Rugby League.

It needs probably another 15 -20 years at least to solidify GWS and GC, after that I'd look at expansion again.
Tasmania (I know it doesn't make financial sense, but football is not entirely about money), and somewhere else. Maybe Perth 3.

I don't really agree that the AFL needs less teams, I still really enjoyed last season despite the calls of talent dilution etc etc.

 

[Freshwater]

You are psychopaths. Not looking backwards, but not discarding history, thank God you're not running things.

 

[Collingwoodity]

As a supporter of one of the smallest club in AFL terms, I would not watch the AFL again if St Kilda were folded.
Would just watch Basketball and Rugby League.

It needs probably another 15 -20 years at least to solidify GWS and GC, after that I'd look at expansion again.
Tasmania (I know it doesn't make financial sense, but football is not entirely about money), and somewhere else. Maybe Perth 3.

I don't really agree that the AFL needs less teams, I still really enjoyed last season despite the calls of talent dilution etc etc.

The problem with the AFL is not talent dilution, its over-capitalisation.

 

[Roylion]

No, go ahead.. tell me what really happened.

Brisbane Lions:

In 1996, the Brisbane Lions changed their company name "Brisbane Bears Football Club Ltd." to "Brisbane Bears - Fitzroy Australian Football Club Ltd." by a vote of the Brisbane Bears members ONLY to reflect they now had custodianship of the Fitzroy identity within the confines of the AFL competition.

Fitzroy (1996-2016)

After an administrator was appointed to Fitzroy to recover Nauru's $1.25 million debt and the AFL withdrew Fitzroy's licence thus removing them from the competition, the administrator of Fitzroy moved out in 1997 and control of the Club was returned to the elected Fitzroy directors and shareholders.

As soon as they came out of administration the Fitzroy directors resolved to continue the club (which is why the occasional statement that Fitzroy now just exists as a company, or an ACN is complete rubbish). The Club started once again taking ordinary membership subscriptions again (I was a shareholder but also re-joined as a Fitzroy member in 1998 - and have been a member ever since) with the aim of re-establishing a football team on the field (which they had done by 2009). From 1997 to 2008 the Fitzroy Football Club accumulated assets such as the establishing of a Shop for merchandise, trademarking available logos such as the FFC logo, which the AFL had never trademarked (and even if they had) had allowed it to fall into disuse and other revenue streams.

In 1999, the Club now boosted by a small revenue stream from memberships and the newly established 'Fitzroy Shop', (which still trades and has been loaning out Fitzroy memorabilia for the Jack Irish series on the ABC) became the naming rights sponsor of the Coburg Lions in the VFL. For two years, 1999-2000, the Coburg-Fitzroy Lions competed in the VFL wearing the Fitzroy jumper for away games. However Richmond ended that arrangement with their own alignment with Coburg, who temporarily re-named themselves the 'Coburg Tigers'.

In December 2008, at the instigation of the then Reds president Craig Little, the University Reds Football Club (known as the Fitzroy Reds from 1997) transferred all its assets to the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. The University (Fitzroy) Reds terminated its membership of the VAFA and was wound up as a incorporated company. By special dispensation from the VAFA, the Fitzroy Football Club then replaced the Fitzroy Reds in D-Grade VAFA. Dyson Hore-Lacy, chairman of Fitzroy in 1996 remained as chairman. Therefore the club that exists in the VAFA today is the same club that was formed in 1883 and competed for a hundred years in the VFL/AFL. Now plays in B-Grade (Premier B) and hopes to get to A-Grade (Premier) in the next few years.

In 2010, Victorian Supreme Court Associate Justice Nemeer Mukhtar found that the Fitzroy Football Club still existed in its own right in the VAFA and was independent of the Brisbane Lions.

 

[Bokonon_]

As a supporter of one of the smallest club in AFL terms, I would not watch the AFL again if St Kilda were folded.
Would just watch Basketball and Rugby League.

It needs probably another 15 -20 years at least to solidify GWS and GC, after that I'd look at expansion again.
Tasmania (I know it doesn't make financial sense, but football is not entirely about money), and somewhere else. Maybe Perth 3.

I don't really agree that the AFL needs less teams, I still really enjoyed last season despite the calls of talent dilution etc etc.

Great post

 

[Mningasimisonda]

Too many teams waters down the talent.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

We should have five more teams.

 

[Kwality]

Will never happen whilst one states teams can vote in and out a commision that suits their agenda

Its actually worse than that, the Commission select new commissioners.

 

[Randy Campbell]

Northern Queensland BullFrogs has a nice ring to it!

Go the Cane Toads.
The Mighty Green and Blacks.

 

[demondavey]

And a pretty thoughtless thread like this gets more of a following than the one about about Roughead bouncing back from Cancer.......

 

[Bostonian]

Start a whole new comp with new teams and new names and have it be an actual national league instead of the VFL boys club with some add ons.

Given how few AFL draftable players come out of SA a supposed AFL heartland I think you should be grateful to the VFL boys club for churning out all these top class youngsters you and the competition get to benefit from.

 

[Bokonon_]

And a pretty thoughtless thread like this gets more of a following than the one about about Roughead bouncing back from Cancer.......

Other than best wishes and he's a great player deseving respect, what can you say. Most people are too decent to troll the thread or start a shitfight.