Do you believe senior coaches should have an expiry date?

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geelong_crazy26

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Most coaches seem to come and go rather quickly within 3-5 years.

But... Then there are some who go 10+ years.. A few who have gone several decades worth.

More my question is, do you believe it is better for clubs to turn over senior coaches after a certain period of time, or having a stable long term good coach is a better outcome?? Aka a malthouse or sheedy scenario springs to mind.

Might seem a silly question... But take a look at buckley who made a GF as a coach only a few seasons earlier... Then mcrae comes along shortly after and the change has been immense... Then on the flip side... Collingwood stuck with Malthouse for over a decade before his flag....

What are your own thoughts??
 
It sound likes you're suggesting that a new appointment should potentially come with a fixed end date, and the team moves on at that date, no matter what the current situation is.

I cannot see any upside to locking yourself into such a deal. What if the coaching market has nothing to offer when the date is up? What is the coach has you winning Premierships and the team loves him?

Teams obviously need to be willing to move on, but any team that moves on purely on the basis of, "no coach should be at one team for more than X years" is setting themselves up for grief and drama.
 

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In the case of the Dew it's when they have eaten through the food budget and for Dimma it was when he started side eyeing the new intern
 
PowerBaz said:
Ken has a lot of preservatives.
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From memory as far as six years back, a significant portion of Port fans had been calling for Ken's departure. I can’t see anyone but Collingwood winning the premiership this year, but can you imagine if Hinkley actually did it lmaooo
 
dmt said:
From memory as far as six years back, a significant portion of Port fans had been calling for Ken's departure. I can’t see anyone but Collingwood winning the premiership this year, but can you imagine if Hinkley actually did it lmaooo
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It would be mind boggling.
 
PhilX said:
It sound likes you're suggesting that a new appointment should potentially come with a fixed end date, and the team moves on at that date, no matter what the current situation is.

I cannot see any upside to locking yourself into such a deal. What if the coaching market has nothing to offer when the date is up? What is the coach has you winning Premierships and the team loves him?

Teams obviously need to be willing to move on, but any team that moves on purely on the basis of, "no coach should be at one team for more than X years" is setting themselves up for grief and drama.
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I might have nade it sound too simplistic in my OP but its a hard topic to summarise in a short post. Alot of factors go into a coach's longevity. I hope which get discussed in this thread.

Sometimes a coach doesnt even perform poorly yet it was a good decision to move on, while others perfoming poorly was a good call to continue on.

Bomber thompson in hindsight leaving was a great decision, buckley leaving ditto... Malthouse leaving probably set Collingwood..

sometimes i think clubs just need a breath of fresh air... While others dont.
 
Adelaide Hawk said:
It's up the club boards and the coaches themselves to determine their longevity. If they're happy with each other, and comfortable with the direction they are heading, then why place a limit on it?
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Do you think the game strategically moves past most coaches quickly ??
 

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geelong_crazy26 said:
Do you think the game strategically moves past most coaches quickly ??
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Not sure about quickly, but I think some coaches do lose touch with the evolution of the game. I don't think there's a place any more for the evergreen ageing coaches with a bag full of premierships. The game is always updating and coaches need to keep refreshing their ideas.

But just who those coaches are remains to be seen. Damien Hardwick coached Richmond for 7 years, not looking anywhere near a flag and them coached three premierships in 4 years. Chris Scott was 11 years without a flag at Geelong. Ken Hinkley is in his 11th season without a flag. John Longmire is in his 13th season at Sydney and hasn't coached a flag since 2012.

Who are we to judge what sort of job they are doing? I'll leave that decision up to each club's board.
 
Adelaide Hawk said:
Not sure about quickly, but I think some coaches do lose touch with the evolution of the game. I don't think there's a place any more for the evergreen ageing coaches with a bag full of premierships. The game is always updating and coaches need to keep refreshing their ideas.

But just who those coaches are remains to be seen. Damien Hardwick coached Richmond for 7 years, not looking anywhere near a flag and them coached three premierships in 4 years. Chris Scott was 11 years without a flag at Geelong. Ken Hinkley is in his 11th season without a flag. John Longmire is in his 13th season at Sydney and hasn't coached a flag since 2012.

Who are we to judge what sort of job they are doing? I'll leave that decision up to each club's board.
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Good post. Btw scott coached 2 flags, not 1. You said 11 years without a flag.

An evergreen coach example would be sheedy... Went a little past his use by date... Where as malthouse was still going strong when he got the arse.

If ken finishes in a prelim... Does he keep going around again???
 
Lavender Bushranger said:
The reality is that none of us ever really know if the coach is the problem, or if the players are.

And conversely, whether the coach is great, or the players are.
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But what we do know is that we can find the strength from within to love ourselves and all our flaws.
 
geelong_crazy26 said:
Do you think the game strategically moves past most coaches quickly ??
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I think this is a thoughtful thread and beyond Ken I reckon some really important questions have been asked and hopefully there will be more.

Eras ago, I know, but I reckon no coach was remarkable as Norm Smith. He embraced modernity and tactical thought as no other than coach did. Five Premierships in six years was remarkable especially as the Demons did not have a list of all time greats. I reckon his greatest achievement was getting my ordinary Bloods into the 1970 Finals. The bloke understood and was ahead of the game as it was played and had the capacity to form close relationships with his playing group.

Current day coaches need primo tactical acumen and the ability to instil confidence and belief.

How long can they last? In Sheedys case probably a decade too long, Ratts at Carlton probably a year or year too short.

I reckon Roos embraced the right approach of recognising in advance a coaching venture was limited and planning around it and mentoring a successor. At the Swans this was Lyon initially and then Longmire. At the Dees it was Goodwin.

I reckon tactical geniacs like Pyke have a limited lifespan irrespective of success. Relationships managers like Longmire last longer.

Of course Lists, culture and surrounding support are vital factors.
 
Can't give you a Straight out answer with this one.

Aussie rules coaches jobs are very limited.

Different sports have different attitudes.

NBA... Teams value and respect People aged 50, 60, even 70 year Olds with 20-30 years of experience. Coaches of that description could already work with 4, 6, 8, even 10 different sides.

In soccer ⚽... Similar thing.

There are 50, 60, even 70 year Olds that have been managers or coaches over a 20-30 year period. Some have coached 10-15 different clubs.
 
Yes, they should but only in the right circumstances.
You need to look at how they are coaching now even if they have been successful.

If they have been there a long time & haven't had success you need to weigh up whether they will in the future.
 
Longest serving coaches at one club in VFL;AFL history:

713 - Jock McHale (16 gf 7 prem)
634 - Kevin Sheedy (7 gf 4 prem)
415 - Dick Reynolds (12 gf 4 prem)
390 - Alistair Clarkson (5 gf 4 prem)
355 - David Parkin (5 gf 3 prem)
333 - Allan Jeans (3 gf 1 prem)
310 - Norm Smith (8 gf 6 prem)
307 - Damien Hardwick (3 gf 3 prem)
305 - Chris Scott (3 gf 2 prem)
304 - Reg Hickey (4 gf 3 prem)
302 - John Longmire (4 gf 1 prem)
299 - John Kennedy (5 gf 3 prem)
286 - Collingwood Malthouse (5 gf 1 prem)
281 - Perce Bentley (3 gf 2 prem)
281 - John Worsfold (2 gf 1 prem)
273 - Mark Williams (2 gf 1 prem)
272 - Phonse Kyne (6 gf 2 prem)
260 - Mark Thompson (3 gf 2 prem)
258 - Frank Hughes (6 gf 4 prem)
248 - Tom Hafey (5 gf 4 prem)
243 - Eagles Malthouse (3 gf 2 prem)
242 - KENNY DADDY DONUTS HINKLEY (0 gf 0 prem)

every coach who gets that sort of tenure achieves something. at the absolute minimum every other person on that list made at least 2 grand finals and won a flag. NOT KENNY WHO IS ABOUT TO GET PISS BLASTED INTO HIS TWELFTH AND THIRTEENTH SEASONS...
 
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