The Law Domestic violence, the memorial thread.

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tandino

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you talk about needing a deeper investigation into why things occur

he. murdered. his. baby.

i dont care if he lost his job, got f’ed over by the family court, and lost his right nad to cancer. He. Killed. His. Baby.

Nothing, absolutely nothing gives any reasoning for that to be done
If we don't accept that there are aggrevating/mitigating/neutral factors that lead to such a tragic outcome, then there's no hope in finding solutions that can stop these sad and tragic events from happening.
 

owen87

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He'd been before the courts for dv and had broken avos. F*** mental health, if the guy had taken himself out without killing his daughter I doubt many would have mourned.
So it doesn’t strike you as perhaps something we need to get better at dealing with? How was someone with that track record allowed to be anywhere near that child?

then tell me, whats the point? whats the deeper reason behind why this a-hole murdered his child?
Still missing the point.

By understanding why someone does it, you get better at working out how to stop it happening again.

Throwing a tantrum and calling him an a-hole does... what exactly? How does it help stop it happening again for another family? It doesn’t. It makes you feel good for calling him scum I’m sure, but achieves nothing.

How either of you have decided that trying to find out more is in any way excusing or validating the behaviour is beyond me.

Yeah he’s scum, but plenty of people are scum and don’t murder their children, so why not find out more so that another child might get to live?
 

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Ned_Flanders

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If we don't accept that there are aggrevating/mitigating/neutral factors that lead to such a tragic outcome, then there's no hope in finding solutions that can stop these sad and tragic events from happening.
this is like sick fu**s such as Milat, Knight, and Bryant

there is no "reason" for what they do - they are sick evil pieces of sh*t
 

Ned_Flanders

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So it doesn’t strike you as perhaps something we need to get better at dealing with? How was someone with that track record allowed to be anywhere near that child?



Still missing the point.

By understanding why someone does it, you get better at working out how to stop it happening again.

Throwing a tantrum and calling him an a-hole does... what exactly? How does it help stop it happening again for another family? It doesn’t. It makes you feel good for calling him scum I’m sure, but achieves nothing.

How either of you have decided that trying to find out more is in any way excusing or validating the behaviour is beyond me.

Yeah he’s scum, but plenty of people are scum and don’t murder their children, so why not find out more so that another child might get to live?
i genuinely dont care what the reason is. he will blame losing his kid due to the court order he copped for DV. he could of been a man, he chose to be a piece of sh*t and kill his kid

what valid reason can you give?
 

owen87

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i genuinely dont care what the reason is. he will blame losing his kid due to the court order he copped for DV. he could of been a man, he chose to be a piece of sh*t and kill his kid

what valid reason can you give?
Why does the reason need to be valid?

Whenever these things happen we should always ask WHY.

Knowing the why helps us identify it again in future before it happens.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Why does the reason need to be valid?

Whenever these things happen we should always ask WHY.

Knowing the why helps us identify it again in future before it happens.
evil is evil

why did ivan milat kill as many as he did? some sh*t there is no answer for, and unfortunately no way to avoid it
 

owen87

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bullshit - unless you can see inside someones mind, there is no way to know what they are capable of. especially as this can evolve over time.

do you want to drug everyone who's a non conformist and turn us into a Stepford society?
Wait. You’ve just argued that we shouldn’t bother asking why, that we can’t stop it happening. Now you’re arguing we should drug them?

So no, you’re still wrong.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Wait. You’ve just argued that we shouldn’t bother asking why, that we can’t stop it happening. Now you’re arguing we should drug them?

So no, you’re still wrong.
no, im arguing the only way you can enforce behaviour the way you want is drugging them

im saying people are good at suppressing this sh*t until it explodes. im also saying that pretending there are reasons for why this happens helps justify it. already today, people are blaming the family court for this kids murder
 

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owen87

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no, im arguing the only way you can enforce behaviour the way you want is drugging them

im saying people are good at suppressing this sh*t until it explodes. im also saying that pretending there are reasons for why this happens helps justify it. already today, people are blaming the family court for this kids murder
And you’re wrong.

If you don’t understand it, let’s leave the conversation at the point where we both agree that he’s scum and that nothing excuses that kind of behaviour.
 

tandino

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lock em up for life, ensure restraining orders are enforced

a sick fu** like this couldnt be stopped
You're a bit off the mark on this one I'm sorry mate. I can't accept that it's a lost cause.

I'm pretty sure the current thinking on DV is not to put perps in the evil box. That in itself is an admission that nothing can be done about them. It absolves them of responsibility.
 

Ned_Flanders

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You're a bit off the mark on this one I'm sorry mate. I can't accept that it's a lost cause.

I'm pretty sure the current thinking on DV is not to put perps in the evil box. That in itself is an admission that nothing can be done about them. It absolves them of responsibility.
agree on DV, but when you escalate it to killing your partner and kids? thats evil

and its not absolving them of sh*t, i want them to rot in a cell till they die
 

Cmarsh

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He'd been before the courts for dv and had broken avos. F*** mental health, if the guy had taken himself out without killing his daughter I doubt many would have mourned.
Maybe he was psychotic. If so possibly would have been found not guilty due to mental illness by a court of law.
 

Ned_Flanders

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This is a lot different to Milat, which in turn is different to both Knight and Bryant.

The only similarity is that people have died as a result of the perpetrators.
No sh*t, but the point is they were all psycho scum who could not have been stopped with more screening, less anti man media, bans on video games, or more hugs.

The notion that this guy is not that bad because he just wants to be together forever with his child (something being argued elsewhere today, and in the past with similar cases) is insane.
 

owen87

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No sh*t, but the point is they were all psycho scum who could not have been stopped with more screening, less anti man media, bans on video games, or more hugs.

The notion that this guy is not that bad because he just wants to be together forever with his child (something being argued elsewhere today, and in the past with similar cases) is insane.
You should probably stop posting on this topic when it’s bleedingly obvious not only do you know nothing about what you’re saying, you’ve also completely misread what people HERE are saying.
 

Ned_Flanders

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You should probably stop posting on this topic when it’s bleedingly obvious not only do you know nothing about what you’re saying, you’ve also completely misread what people HERE are saying.
one of my best mates had a family member stab his wife to death in front of his kids during their split. I saw how his family and the wifes family had to deal with everything after that. anyone saying its due to the family court, lack of support, pressure on men, blah blah blah is full of sh*t.

what these guys do is completely selfish and contemptable, and there is no reasoning behind it to excuse it, explain it, or justify it
 

owen87

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one of my best mates had a family member stab his wife to death in front of his kids during their split. I saw how his family and the wifes family had to deal with everything after that. anyone saying its due to the family court, lack of support, pressure on men, blah blah blah is full of sh*t.

what these guys do is completely selfish and contemptable, and there is no reasoning behind it to excuse it, explain it, or justify it
So no, you still don’t understand what people are saying here.

Not a single person has said anything provides an excuse or justification for the behaviour.

What we’re saying is that we can learn something about why these people do these things, so that we can get better at spotting the warning signs, and save another child.

You do realise that guys like Milat get interviewed and studied right? Serial killers are a major source of study.
 

Ned_Flanders

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So no, you still don’t understand what people are saying here.

Not a single person has said anything provides an excuse or justification for the behaviour.

What we’re saying is that we can learn something about why these people do these things, so that we can get better at spotting the warning signs, and save another child.

You do realise that guys like Milat get interviewed and studied right? Serial killers are a major source of study.
and you do realize that these are not career criminals, most are living normal lives with just an ugly divorce as an indicator

are you suggesting everyone going through a break up have mandatory psychological screening?
 

owen87

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are you suggesting everyone going through a break up have mandatory psychological screening?
If it saves the lives of their children, maybe they should. It’s clearly a major contributing event to people that are already predisposed to violence.
 

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