Eastern FL - Division 2 2017

[Rooster 24]

My son is currently playing Div 1 Ammo's and he get's his Mortgage paid, my two nephews have been employed at 20K higher per year than those who do the same job and if they leave their club the mortgage payments stop and the nephews jobs will cease, but hey you're right they don't get match payments. You are correct VAFA clubs are not awash with money but there are benefactors behind them just like local football clubs. As for the Players who left Old Xavs, seriously shit example as if I am not mistaken they went to Balwyn, no matter what inducements were offered they would have been doubled as that is what Balwyn does. What Balwyn want Balwyn get.

While I suggest what you are saying is pure fantasy and just perpetuates this myth, if true your son’s club and by extension your son, is acting dishonestly and it is a smack in the face to every other player and club in the comp. So do the honorable things and drag your son along to VAFA HQ with his bank statments and spill the beans. Otherwise name them here or PM me the club and player names and I’ll blow the whistle myself as if true this is cheating and puts a club like mine at a huge disadvantage. And if clubs, VAFA or otherwise, has the capacity to pay someone 20k more than what they are worth in their job then they would have players from all over the country lining up to join them. If you don’t rate the Xavs/ Balwyn example does Murphy Ambrose going to Norwood do it for you? He is the best of the lot.

Anyway I just wanted to make a point about what I thought were interesting comments about the plight of local football by the EB prez. I reckon the EFL is a fantastic comp and I did not come on here to get into an argument with some one who is clearly making it up as he goes on along.

 

[eflreceiver]

My thoughts on the EFL being a fantastic competition are long gone. I have watched it deteriorate over the years where those running the league are answerable to no one. Geez they are all about Netball these days. As for my Sons Mortgage and my Nephews Wages, as it's not paid by the club and under VAFA rules and I use that term loosely, it's legal unless you can prove it isn't.

 

[Rooster 24]

My thoughts on the EFL being a fantastic competition are long gone. I have watched it deteriorate over the years where those running the league are answerable to no one. Geez they are all about Netball these days. As for my Sons Mortgage and my Nephews Wages, as it's not paid by the club and under VAFA rules and I use that term loosely, it's legal unless you can prove it isn't.

I won’t labour the point, as I’m sure others here have no interest in the VAFA or its rules but what you describe is not legal and it is irrelevant if the money is not paid directly by the club. If the player receives a financial benefit such as having his mortgage paid, even by a 3rd party, then the club and player are in breach. I agree that it is difficult to police but a good start would be for people who have evidence being prepared to produce it.

 

[Levelnuts]

I have watched it deteriorate over the years

Are you talking about the EFL or East Burwood ???

 

[biteme]

One can only hope that it is not only the players copping it but also the 40K coaches and the 30-50K football operation managers......

 

[Richard Lounder]

I mentioned this before on the old forum. East burwood had no problem with payment to players when they had richo as coach and numerous other big guns playing for them throughout the years. Suck it up , concentrate on your juniors and don't pay over the odds. Pretty simple.

 

[Turbos mail]

I won’t labour the point, as I’m sure others here have no interest in the VAFA or its rules but what you describe is not legal and it is irrelevant if the money is not paid directly by the club. If the player receives a financial benefit such as having his mortgage paid, even by a 3rd party, then the club and player are in breach. I agree that it is difficult to police but a good start would be for people who have evidence being prepared to produce it.

Rooster, I'm from the EDFL and can confirm offers of jobs by VAFA clubs is real. Most pay higher wages or the actual player works only 2-3 days but gets a full wage. I don't recommend contacting the league as a lot of VAFA are doing it and have been for years. I'm sure the league are aware of it "but" it's the only way to entice quality players..not sure how you would police or stop it.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

My thoughts on the EFL being a fantastic competition are long gone. I have watched it deteriorate over the years where those running the league are answerable to no one. Geez they are all about Netball these days.

What in your opinion has caused the deterioration of the EFL aside from the netball?

 

[smy1305]

Probably the fact that EB can't compete in div 1 anymore....

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Well Rooster after checking a few things yesterday I can add this to the discussion. All players were paid, of the three players that went to your club only one would have been worth another contract. He began last year just keeping his head above water, but by the end of the season was the club's most improved player and an example to everyone else at the club on how to go about things on and off the field. However, we could not and would not match the $950 a game it was rumoured he was offered to play in the country. Your club apparently could in some way.
It's probably an easy decision by some players to leave a winless club and go somewhere else, although your club doesn't seem to be performing any better the EB this year and face the prospect of playing in a new division next year.
As far as big payments go, as everyone has pointed out we have gone down that road in the past and to smack us now for having done so won't change anything except perhaps make you feel morally superior. As for Peaky making the statement that was published, it's worth noting that it's coming from a club with a better insight to the problem of player payments and their effects, than a club who hasn't experienced both sides of the problem. And we aren't the only club in the EFL who this effects, Peaky is simply the one who has said something. As I pointed out in an earlier reply, we aren't alone with this problem as 83% of the clubs in Victoria also see it as statewide problem that needs fixing.
So rather than attacking EB, get to the real nub of the topic. Is he right?

 

[smy1305]

One can only hope that it is not only the players copping it but also the 40K coaches and the 30-50K football operation managers......

ReallY Operations Managers... fk me, gravy train.

 

[smy1305]

You are corretc Cliff - doesn't answer the topic but it probably makes some people involved with EFL footy a little bit slighted to hear one of the main protagonists bemoaning the state of play right now. Forecast ahead 10 years and Balwyn for arguements sake has fallen on hard times, sponsors left, no juniors (still...), personnel is very different on field and the new president in 2025 comes out and says that money paid to players is killing the game - would you expect too many people to feel sorry for them?? Maybe if Rob had said, "yes, our club is as much to blame as anyone for the current predicament local footy is in, we were one of the major culprits once and we took our eye off the ball for a while there, BUT I feel that we have learnt some lessons and as a club we feel that something has to change blah blah" then maybe it wouldn't have been so much eye rolling.

And yes, he is right..

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

If anyone feels that we expect others to feel sorry for us, they are well off the mark. No matter what Peaky had said I don't believe it would change the views of opposition supporters.

 

[Richard Lounder]

I don't feel morally superior just sick of a few who have short memories.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

I'm glad you agree with me then Richie

 

[Rooster 24]

You are corretc Cliff - doesn't answer the topic but it probably makes some people involved with EFL footy a little bit slighted to hear one of the main protagonists bemoaning the state of play right now. Forecast ahead 10 years and Balwyn for arguements sake has fallen on hard times, sponsors left, no juniors (still...), personnel is very different on field and the new president in 2025 comes out and says that money paid to players is killing the game - would you expect too many people to feel sorry for them?? Maybe if Rob had said, "yes, our club is as much to blame as anyone for the current predicament local footy is in, we were one of the major culprits once and we took our eye off the ball for a while there, BUT I feel that we have learnt some lessons and as a club we feel that something has to change blah blah" then maybe it wouldn't have been so much eye rolling.

And yes, he is right..

Exactly the point I was trying to make with my clumsily worded initial post.

 

[Rooster 24]

Well Rooster after checking a few things yesterday I can add this to the discussion. All players were paid, of the three players that went to your club only one would have been worth another contract. He began last year just keeping his head above water, but by the end of the season was the club's most improved player and an example to everyone else at the club on how to go about things on and off the field. However, we could not and would not match the $950 a game it was rumoured he was offered to play in the country. Your club apparently could in some way.
It's probably an easy decision by some players to leave a winless club and go somewhere else, although your club doesn't seem to be performing any better the EB this year and face the prospect of playing in a new division next year.
As far as big payments go, as everyone has pointed out we have gone down that road in the past and to smack us now for having done so won't change anything except perhaps make you feel morally superior. As for Peaky making the statement that was published, it's worth noting that it's coming from a club with a better insight to the problem of player payments and their effects, than a club who hasn't experienced both sides of the problem. And we aren't the only club in the EFL who this effects, Peaky is simply the one who has said something. As I pointed out in an earlier reply, we aren't alone with this problem as 83% of the clubs in Victoria also see it as statewide problem that needs fixing.
So rather than attacking EB, get to the real nub of the topic. Is he right?

Said right from the start this was not an EFL v VAFA thing but just to clear up a few of the points you raised 2 players returned after 1 year at EB and one (at best an entrenched reserves player) came along also. They did get paid but not until the new year. One of those you refer to played 2 or 3 senior games at the club – the last being in 2011 so I wonder why EB thought he was worthy of a contract and payment well beyond his modest resume in the first place? The other played a handful of senior games over a 3 years period and while he had obvious potential could never nail down a senior place. However I will say he has returned a much better player with a vastly improved attitude. He never received offers from the country leagues and simply came back to his old school club, where he had played the previous 5 years to have a kick with his mates. On top of that he knew full well that after barely surviving relegation the year before (2 up 2 down in the ammos) that this would likely be another tough year.

And yes we have our own struggles, much of which is a direct result of clubs offering ridiculous match payments to players of modest ability. Pre the 2014 season we lost 28 players who played seniors during the 2013 season. While this included some retirements and travellers the majority were lured to suburban and country leagues for cash. While we expect to get a few picked off each year this was extraordinary number. However on the whole the future looks bright for us. 2 x U19 teams this year and could have had a 3rd if the council gave us access to a ground. While our seniors teams are finding the going tough our playing stocks are excellent and easily filling 3 senior teams each week. Just lacking a bit of top end talent. And after some lean years for the school side the next 3 or years’ looks really good. As the school is where we get 95% of our players ultimately this is how we gauge our future success. Another close loss on Saturday but good teams win those games and we look likely to be playing in B grade next year.

 

[Lowey33]

Probably the fact that EB can't compete in div 1 anymore....

Or second div for that matter!

 

[Richard Lounder]

Sorry Cliff . No I don't

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Sorry Cliff . No I don't

No matter what Peaky had said I don't believe it would change the views of opposition supporters.

Yes you do!

 

[Richard Lounder]

Wasn't commenting on what your president said . I was commenting on your post. Morally superior, attacking EB !! give me a break.
Facts are facts mate and when your club finally stops living in the past then they might just get out of the rut they are in.
FWIW I agree totally with what Peaky said. It is pretty obvious though and for years and years a lot of clubs would have been saying the same thing so why all of of a sudden is he some sort of trail blazer. That is my whole point Cliff, I could have said this in the nineties and you and EB wouldn't have given two shits about it, just find it laughable that him and a few others think that the EFL is in a bad place now that you are struggling thats all.

 

[Stevie Gee]

I read this and found it a pretty solid argument... A few people have mentioned this in the past including me... The problem is the comps and the few club that have outgrown them

https://thelastkick.wordpress.com/2015/06/07/equalisation-an-uneasy-road/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

That is the best article that I have read on the subject so far. I know my club will not be reducing its budget as a result of the points system, so there will be beneficiaries (perhaps some not deserving) of the new system. Targets will change.

I have seen the spreadsheet and know that some clubs have been asked to submit some samples to the league. Does anyone have any idea as to when this whole process is likely to be finalised & rubber stamped?

 

[smy1305]

Think you might have written this article SGee

Very true too - local footy is an anachronism really. Basically there should be a competition created 1 level below VFL footy (if you like) and clubs apply to be part of. One of the pillars would be financial status and a capacity to spend say $200K on players and personnel. You may decide to spend more but this is the minimum spend you should budget for. Other pillars might include junior set up, admin set up, capacity to generate funds (so the club isn't reliant on 1 big benefactor), facilities and probably a couple of others. FV decide who gets in. It would be a Super Comp as SG used to like calling it. Yes it will take players from local comps - so be it - already happens now, but it will also take a fair bit of pressure off a number of sides in good comps in the EFL, EDFL, NFL and others. If you want top coin then there is a comp for you...

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Wasn't commenting on what your president said . I was commenting on your post. Morally superior, attacking EB !! give me a break.
Facts are facts mate and when your club finally stops living in the past then they might just get out of the rut they are in.
FWIW I agree totally with what Peaky said. It is pretty obvious though and for years and years a lot of clubs would have been saying the same thing so why all of of a sudden is he some sort of trail blazer. That is my whole point Cliff, I could have said this in the nineties and you and EB wouldn't have given two shits about it, just find it laughable that him and a few others think that the EFL is in a bad place now that you are struggling thats all.

Hold on there Richie, where you have I said that the EFL is a bad place?
Where have you got the idea that Peaky is some sort of a trail blazer?
Why do you think we are living in the past?
In 1992 we won a flag and in 1999 and 2000 we won a repeat, however, you, are probably right, we wouldn't have have given a shit, because we paid a competitive price for players. At that time we had an ex AFL player as our coach with contacts and his father was an EB legend, who helped the club in any way possible. We got good information and we acted on it.
Not sure I understand, "just find it laughable that him and a few others think that the EFL" is a bad place. When has Peaky or me said that?
2000 is 15 years ago.