News EFC asks AFL and ASADA for probe into own training regime

[yaco55]

2 points.

1. ASADA and WADA have no jurisdiction over the club, only individuals within the club
2. If the papers are off on any article, we must come down on them with the wrath of 1000 suns. Imagine seeing Caro and Fatprick squirming in court.

Legal action doesn't address our current issue

1) Articles are legalled - so little chance of successful legal action.
2) Journalists are reporting the facts, interspersed with opinion
2) EFC should be concerned with getting our on and off field performance up to professional standards.
4) Re-read Bruno's post from yesterday

 

[yaco55]

I agree with Lance that if found guilty that the repercussions, probably won't be as serious as has been suggested by the media.

But EFC please do due diligence on future staff - No more charlatans/witch doctors.

 

[Donakebab]

It looks damning indeed, but you can take the following from it

This is the scariest part which may tie into Essendon.

An instance of team-based doping, orchestrated by some club officials and coaching staff, has also been identified.

 

[BrunoV]

Match fixing only in racing in Victoria.

Gee that is a shock.

I'm surprised the finger was not pointed at Buddy for all of those missed goals.

 

[Bombermania]

There is a funny side to this, the club has spent a large amount of money on sports scientist yet the coaching staff appear to have missed a huge hole in the game plan

Little to no forward line

Surely the coaching staff have noticed the number of times that Jobe, Stants, Zaka etc have the ball in the midfield yet have to go side ways because there is no one in the forward 50

 

[Zach Package]

This is the scariest part which may tie into Essendon.

demetriou also said about 20 seconds earlier that that aspect is unrelated to the essendon investigation.

 

[Donakebab]

demetriou also said about 20 seconds earlier that that aspect is unrelated to the essendon investigation.

That quote was taken from the report, not what Vlad said. I'm not taking anything he says as gospel, he will mince words to protect the brand. It may not be referring to us, but it seems quite a likely possibility at this point in time.

 

[yaco55]

Demetriou hardly likely to say that we are under investigation.

 

[Kong]

So did the ACC say when we'll find out the findings/repercussions?

 

[Malifice]

From the ACC report:

An instance of team-based doping, orchestrated by some club officials and coaching staff, has also been identified. Apart from the peptide’s anabolic effects, it has been found that injured elite athletes, particularly players from one sporting code, have been using peptides to assist in rehabilitating soft tissue injuries.

While the level of suspected use of peptides varies between sporting codes, officials from one club have been identified as administering, via injections and intravenous drips, a variety of substances, possibly including peptides. Moreover, the substances were administered at levels which were possibly in breach of WADA anti-doping rules. This activity was orchestrated by some club officials and the club’s high performance unit.

I dont want to rub salt into the wounds, but m not sure how else that can be read other than you blokes could be in some ridiculously serious strife. Looks like the Crime commission has been monitoring this for a while.

This will not end well.

 

[BrunoV]

There is a funny side to this, the club has spent a large amount of money on sports scientist yet the coaching staff appear to have missed a huge hole in the game plan

Little to no forward line

Surely the coaching staff have noticed the number of times that Jobe, Stants, Zaka etc have the ball in the midfield yet have to go side ways because there is no one in the forward 50

Yep.

Whenever I hear about the latest development in this sports science bullshit I cannot help but think of that article on Bryan Taylor / goal kicking of a few years ago.

It was suggested that if goal kicking could improve in line with the improvements in field kicking over time it would result in something like a 10% improvement in overall output of a side. Taylor's bitch was about what he viewed was dumb decision making of clubs in choosing to chase comparatively small gains (of a % or two) through fitness regimes, diet and leadership meetings while at the same time ignoring goal kicking.

I know that this situation is slightly different because we were trying to repair damaged/exhausted players but all you need to do is go back to the root cause which is cramming 2 pre-seasons into one as Yaco has been saying.

I am sure that calculations of the percentages in the Taylor article are not without flaws but there are a lot of dumb things happening in football at the moment and many of them are driven by sports science who are simply over complicating an otherwise simple game.

My biggest gripes at the are:

1. goal kicking
2. playing sprinting 100 to almost 200 metres for a spell on the bench (particularly when they have not been in the play as forwards). You cannot tell me that this extended sprint is not what is exhausting the players half the time.

 

[Bombermania]

My biggest gripes at the moment are:

1. goal kicking
2. playing sprinting 100 to almost 200 metres for a spell on the bench (particularly when they have not been in the play as forwards). You cannot tell me that this extended sprint is not what is exhausting the players half the time.

Yep, and the thing I have noticed in recent years has been the number of occasion our players will collect the ball around 40-50 meters out yet wont take a shot and instead will go for the short pass.

The gameplan has forced the guys to work harder than otherwise could be the case and this has forced the players to over train and when a person over train the end result is increase in soft tissue injuries.

Sure we want them to bulk up in the arms but that can be done by lifting correctly and eating right.

The irony is we were or are still sponsored by a protein maker.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

From the ACC report:



I dont want to rub salt into the wounds, but m not sure how else that can be read other than you blokes could be in some ridiculously serious strife. Looks like the Crime commission has been monitoring this for a while.

This will not end well.

But if the players have signed consent forms that state that the cub, doctor, staff all agree that said substances comply with WADA/ASADA regulations then the party/parties that have breached this would face civil/criminal charges. On this basis how on earth can ASADA blame the players? As i've asked before, do they seriously expect the players to pay a lab to test for them?

If a young bloke at a club is given all these papers and is told everything is ok how the **** can he do anything else but take the substances. And if he is still found to be in breach by ASADA how can the parent of that player not sue the **** out of the AFL/AFLPA and club?

 

[Bombermania]

But that is the East Germany defense

Or as the Chinese swimmers claimed "but its only Turtle soup"

 

[BrunoV]

From the ACC report:



I dont want to rub salt into the wounds, but m not sure how else that can be read other than you blokes could be in some ridiculously serious strife. Looks like the Crime commission has been monitoring this for a while.

This will not end well.

That extract is no more reason for concern. All it is essentially doing is describing a practice which we say was signed off on. It also tends to talk across purposes and lumps the vitamin injecting in with the peptide use.

You have to remember that our link to all of this shit is Dank. He was employed by us in a fitness capacity and at the same time has links to Dr Stangelove and whoever else. There is certainly enough there to "link" us with drug importation and use, etc but it is only at the level of guilt by association. The link is wholly meaningless until a charge is laid. Even then, if in the worst case it is proved that we were using something illegal, the way it is shaping if McVeigh's understanding of the consent/waiver is accurate, the players seem all but protected (listen to Erlich on SEN - I agree with him because the general application of these WADA rules has been in situations where there individuals or small collectives who have no evidence of following proper process, there must always be a defence of what effectively amounts to reasonableness in the circumstances).

Seeing as everyone is prepared to hang Dank, is it really that much of a stretch to think that a guy in Dank's position would have some business on the side juicing up body builders, athletes and whoever else approaches him; and that he keeps this side of his practice completely separate from his professional "front". If this is the case then I agree that he can never be allowed to be involved near professional sport again but that isn't our issue (unless there is a requirement that you send a PI out after an investigator for 12 months before employing any chemist in a role at a sporting club).

 

[monty1104]

If a young bloke at a club is given all these papers and is told everything is ok how the **** can he do anything else but take the substances. And if he is still found to be in breach by ASADA how can the parent of that player not sue the **** out of the AFL/AFLPA and club?

How about taking responsibility for his own body and checking the WADA regulations for himself?

Ignorance isnt an excuse.

 

[SharkShuffler]

Has it come out yet - on whose instigation it was that the players sign the "consent/waiver"?

 

[monty1104]

Has it come out yet - on whose instigation it was that the players sign the "consent/waiver"?

McVeigh said the players asked for it.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

How about taking responsibility for his own body and checking the WADA regulations for himself?

Ignorance isnt an excuse.

So every footballer on a club list needs to check everything given to them. Interesting Carrazzo said yesterday that it wouldn't happen at his club as the club docto ok'd everything. Obviously this isn't enough.

 

[BrunoV]

One thing Marco & Ox said they discussed with McVeigh after the interview was significant and seems largely ignored.

They said that McVeigh clarified the waiver/consent by explaining that a part of it was an acknowledgement by the player that he would not use other supplements in conjunction with whatever the form referred to.

My understanding is that some peptides only become problematic when used with other (presumably) legal supplements.

It means that the description of the document as a "waiver" is not necessarily inaccurate but that there is absolutely nothing sinister about the "waiver" element of it.

 

[TD_B52]

Rapidly losing the passion for any sport.

 

[monty1104]

So every footballer on a club list needs to check everything given to them. Interesting Carrazzo said yesterday that it wouldn't happen at his club as the club docto ok'd everything. Obviously this isn't enough.

Yes, they should be. The onus is on the person taking the drug to check whether it is legal or not. In reality, no one actually checks, they trust their doctor. But if a sportsman is caught with a banned substance in their system, they cant roll out he line "but the doc said it was ok". It just doesn't cut it.

 

[Malifice]

But if the players have signed consent forms that state that the cub, doctor, staff all agree that said substances comply with WADA/ASADA regulations then the party/parties that have breached this would face civil/criminal charges. On this basis how on earth can ASADA blame the players? As i've asked before, do they seriously expect the players to pay a lab to test for them?

Forget the waivers. If the players are found to have taken prohibited substances, waivers wont help them one iota.

You cant simply indemnify yourself from ASADA sanctions by signing a waiver, and then taking a substance offered to you by a third party be that third party a doctor, sports science guy, coach or whomever.

The player will be banned. He can then sue the crap out of the person that administered the gear to him, but it wont protect him from the ASADA sanction.

The only effect those waivers will have (assuming the substance taken was prohibited) will be to possibly reduce the length of the ban from 2 years to 1 by evidencing the fact that the player genuinely did not know that the substance taken was prohibited.

 

[Beerfish]

Am I the only one that sees the use of the word "possibly" twice in that extract from the report people keep posting?

 

[Doss]

So every footballer on a club list needs to check everything given to them. Interesting Carrazzo said yesterday that it wouldn't happen at his club as the club docto ok'd everything. Obviously this isn't enough.

This is the thing that does not sit right with me- if a player has to cross-check everything he/she is told is okay by their club doctor, what the hell is the point of a club doctor 'okaying' anything full stop?