Review Essendon List Review

[Burzum]

Hille was our first pick in the '99 draft due to the salary cap penalty.

 

[Yoda_]

Wow, that makes a lot of sense.



Quite a few people in this thread have said they'd delist Atkinson, and not ONE has given any reason at all as far as I could see.

Atkinson looked decent when he played. He created run for us and held his own down back. Has the occasional brain-fade, but then, so does everybody else in our team.

He seems to get crucified around here, but for no good reason.

The one thing that people constantly overlook when it comes to Atkinson is how well he slots into our structure. He may not ever be a world-beater, but you don't need 18 world-beaters out there. You need 18 players that work together well, and do the team things. Atkinson, in the few games he played earlier in the year, did exactly that for the most part.

Yet people want to delist him.

The fact that he is out of contract, is 25, is holding players one our list back (Dempsey, Houli, T.Slattery), the fact that people EXPECT clubs to trade for our trash when in fact, a lot less trades will be done this year than anticipated IMO.

 

[Yoda_]

Retiring Fletch would be the hardest decision to make and I can see the pros and cons of doing so. He could be there for another 4 years the way he's playing especially if he has his mandatory 4-5 game stint on the sidelines for having his gangly arms or legs getting him in trouble. The club needs that experience on field otherwise we'll go backwards again next year. This goes for Spike and Welsh as well they both love the club but form just doesn't excite you when they come back into the side. Spike has been a better performer in the latter half of the season than what welsh is. There are too few leaders at the club right now and only one or two future leaders in Melksham and Hurley.

We need a couple of real mongrel players ala Wallis, Wellman, Soloman, Barnyard. It's what lacks right now with Hille being the only real hard body out there. Jobe's not that sort of player but by god he's a good capt. Originally players like lonergan, hocking and reimers looked to be able to fill those roles of in and under tough nuts of the side but have since been played out of position and not in the guts.

The Dempsey Debarcle. He lives and breaths down hill skiing. Great to watch when the other 5 backmen are covering his arse but when they have their hands full he is exposed for every tom dick and harry to see. Play him as a defensive forward where he is not as accountable to allow him to learn his defensive game under less pressure. Then move him back if need be.

The forward line structure hasn't been settled all year. 2 big holes to fill in Lloyd and Lucas was bigger than expected. Willo was recruited in an attempt to fill one of those holes. The Hurley experiment down forward just didn't work and for now he's a better backman that can go forward in a pinch. It's scarey to think that Davey (22 goals) is the leading goal kicker for the club this season. Gumbleton got through a season and went missing on some occassions but showed the potential that everyone had hoped he would. Neagle just doesn't seem fit or upto the level. Great hands but you wouldn't put your house on him to kick straight. Hardingham was the suprise packet and adds that spark up forward. Monfires hasn't improved from last year it's just more of the same which is a pity as I think he's a barometer for the team.

The club has persisted with Dyson, NLM, lonergan and Slattery for too long. Surely they have some weight on the trade table even if they act as a sweetner to gain a higher draft pick I'd take it.

Houli, Myers, Jetta and Prismall are the four players that need to start showing they are part of the solution and not the cause of the problem. All have downfalls from being indecisive to injury to just going missing in games that matter. Have to be able to stick with them and just not drop them. Houli strung 3 games together and has played one ordinary game from those three. Pris needs to be played on the wing and jetta is a forward pocket player and shouldn't be seen up the ground he's just too small. Myers hasn't been given the chance to string games together at senior level. He's shown glimpse's of brilliance and as a high draft pick needs to be given time at senior level to develop not in one game out the next.

The assistant coaching staff needs a shake up. Campo is the midfield coach and it's just not working. If Simon Black retires and is looking for a coaching gig the club would be stupid not chasing him. With Madden as the ruck coach we've seen the high's that Ryder can reach and the improvement in Belly. Loathed to say it but as long as Knights is at the club Lloyd won't be back. He's ideal as a forward coach and could address some serious goal kicking issues at the club.

The trade period and off season appointments will be an indication as to where the club is going. Put players with niggles in for surgery now so they are ready for a full preseason and play the rookies. Marigliani would be good to see on the big stage as would Carlisle.

Trade: NLM, Lonergan, Slattery, Jetta, Neagle.

Well said Nasty Penguin

Could not argue with most of those points

 

[yodellinhank]

Slattery_20

Have I pissed you off or am I just the latest target in your string of stirring attacks on a single poster?

In regards to Adrian Dodoro, he is still living off late round gems rather than first round guns to make his name..

Have a look at this list for my response: (Dodoro appointed in 1998)
1999: (traded like crazy) Hille at 40 was only notable recruit.
2000: James Davies (17), Ted Richards (27)
2001: Shane Harvey (18), Joel Reynolds (31)
2002: Jason Laycock (10), Jason Winderlich (11)
2003: Keplar Bradley (6), Brent Stanton (13)
2004: Angus Monfries (14), Andrew Lee (30)
2005: Patrick Ryder (7), Courtenay Dempsey (19) *
2006: Scott Gumbleton (2), Leroy Jetta (18), Tom Hislop (20)
2007: David Myers (6), Tayte Pears (23)

Before you start raving about how good the 2005 draft pick was, why the hell did HE, along with Sheedy draft/trade/recruit in guys (in no particular order), Scott Camporeale, Chris Heffernan, Richard Cole.

Add to that, in our recent dire years we have added in trades such as Jarrod Atkinson, Mal Michael, Steve Allessio..

Really goes to show why I do not rate him in his recent years at the EFC..

How about we pick some stand out guys rather than someone who 'could be a top line player', and some players that can kick and have good skills.

Chris Pelchen (TAC Future Stars - Sunday afternoon) mentioned: "our big focis was on kicking skills, we needed to recruit in guys that could use it (the pill)", they went on to win the flag..

I realise they are not going to delist Myers, I do not think he will make it, but he is a first round draft pick and they do not grow on trees so wil give him every opportuinty to 'make it' before we finally rid us (The Essendon Football Club) of the deadwood that is...



To top this off Slattery_20

What would you do to our list?

You honestly think teams are going to come crying for a Ricky Dyson, or an Andrew Welsh?

No, people around here think that our trash is someone else's treasure.

How about you put something into this 'debate' as you call it and make some worthwhile points rather than attack a bloke who is sick of mediocrity and wants something done the **** about it.

I have debated at length on many a thread about what i believe to be a commonly held misconception that Campo, Michael etc where mistakes.

I'll say the same thing I always say, take a look at the pick numbers and the talent available at the time.

It seems the view that draft picks are so valuable, and then the players we draft with them aren't. People love to believe there is/was some gem out there, but you have to be realistic.

I totally agree with your trash for treasure point. This is the way footy supporters think though. They never want to give up something, and always throw up names and then follow up with "or delist him".

The only reason I raise Dyson, however, is because there was interest from Freo in the not so distant past, and I wonder if he may actually still carry currency with them? Given their current situation with good young kids, they might be happy to bring in ready made, errm, talent?

 

[Ben the Gooner]

The fact that he is out of contract, is 25, is holding players one our list back (Dempsey, Houli, T.Slattery), the fact that people EXPECT clubs to trade for our trash when in fact, a lot less trades will be done this year than anticipated IMO.

I'd argue the opposite.

Last year, there were a lot of trades, because the draft was poorly rated, and teams didn't fancy it. Conversely, in 2008, the superdraft, very little trading went on.

No one fancies their picks this year, so they'll be given up readily IMO.

 

[Duckworth]

Well said Nasty Penguin

Could not argue with most of those points

Yeah, although I have no problems with Fletch taking up a spot on the veterans list until he sees fit to retire.

 

[Yoda_]

With regards to the NSW/International rookie list picks. I have been told that as many as 3 of these players can be rookied without taking up a regular rookie list place. So the likes of Meli/Webster/Cole can be taken if deemed worthy, and we can still use our rookie places to stick with our current mature agers, or find ourselves some new mature agers.

Midfielders outside the list?











AWESOME!!!

 

[yaco55]

Will probably be more trading than last year - Should be a combination of player for players and players for picks - Maybe even three or 4 way trades.

I definitely want a minumum of four or five picks

As HFF mentioned we have had mixed success with first or second round picks and relatively greater success with later picks under the reign of Dodoro/Keane.

Better to be safe and have extra picks.

 

[oddsok]

I'd argue the opposite.

Last year, there were a lot of trades, because the draft was poorly rated, and teams didn't fancy it. Conversely, in 2008, the superdraft, very little trading went on.

No one fancies their picks this year, so they'll be given up readily IMO.

On the other hand because picks are so average they may be unwilling to part with their highest pick.

Circumstances play a huge part though. Freo would think they have enough youth and need some list bolstering, similar with Melbourne? Port may hold onto their picks for dear life.

 

[BomberTime]

I agree with many of your delistings HFF, from what i saw of Silverlock before his injury i hope he can develop into that hard nosed inside mid we need next year after he recovers. He looks a beauty.

 

[yaco55]

I agree with many of your delistings HFF, from what i saw of Silverlock before his injury i hope he can develop into that hard nosed inside mid we need next year after he recovers. He looks a beauty.

Silverlock is a must to be placed on the primary list or we could lose him to another club.

 

[Towno78]

Silverlock is a must to be placed on the primary list or we could lose him to another club.

You keep saying this. I hardly think a first-year rookie listed player with a broken leg who hasn't played a single AFL game for one of the worst performed AFL clubs, but has shown some good signs in the VFL has any similarities to Mumford... A ruckman who played many AFL games over 2 seasons for the best team in the competition, playing in a position with a league wide deficiency of AFL quality players.
He'll stay on the rookie list, no danger there. Besides the only way we lose him is if he decides he doesn't want to stay on the rookie list, and takes his chances in the draft. Which I wouldn't have thought would be likely given his circumstances once again.

 

[Slattery_20]

Before you start raving about how good the 2005 draft pick was, why the hell did HE, along with Sheedy draft/trade/recruit in guys (in no particular order), Scott Camporeale, Chris Heffernan, Richard Cole.

Add to that, in our recent dire years we have added in trades such as Jarrod Atkinson, Mal Michael, Steve Allessio..

You really don't have much idea of what I wrote, do you?

Perhaps, what they should do, is head-hunt a fairly successful recruiter from another club and move Dodoro sideways a bit, away from recruiting, into more of a general management role ? I think that'd be good.
Dodoro was never going to out-vote Sheedy at the trade table. You can probably tell who I'm blaming for all the "jet midfielder" years.

Not sure why you list any of Atkinson, Michael or Alessio as trades? Michael came from another club at least, the other two have played their entire careers at EFC. But near enough's good enough.

Chris Pelchen (TAC Future Stars - Sunday afternoon) mentioned: "our big focis was on kicking skills, we needed to recruit in guys that could use it (the pill)", they went on to win the flag..

And most of their best players (he didn't do the 01 nor the Buddy draft) were recruited by the bloke around before him (Buckenara) or, Dew's case, by Clarko going over his head.
Again, little conception of who did what & when, but boy are you angry about it!

Pelchen can rightfully claim Cyril & I think Ellis, along with every one of their failures since.

To top this off Slattery_20

What would you do to our list?

You honestly think teams are going to come crying for a Ricky Dyson, or an Andrew Welsh?

No, people around here think that our trash is someone else's treasure.

Freo had a big sniff at Dyson last off-season. Oh but they're not interested...

How about you put something into this 'debate' as you call it and make some worthwhile points rather than attack a bloke who is sick of mediocrity and wants something done the **** about it.

Yep, exactly what I said was "we need more mediocrity".

I think we need a hell of a lot more hard players, a hell of a lot less soft-outside-winger-flankers, and a hell of a lot more accountability from front to back.
Too soft. Pure and simple.
Makes me angry seeing the "XXX is being played out of position" shit like you actually expect one poor backman to defend against 2 opposition players streaming forward + their own man.
I don't know where that starts & where it stops, who's fault it is, and so on, but I just get pissed off when you consistently get stuff wrong and don't listen to people trying to set you straight.

 

[Yoda_]

Slattery_20

We have the worst midfield in the comp, right?

We continually get smashed around here? we are slow, indecisive, we lack skill in the middle with no outstanding ball users in our 'core' group of players.

If I was in charge of recruiting and trading, some big changes would well and truly be made to our list.

We scraped into the finals last year when any other year would of spelled a finish of 10th, whilst this year we have arguably gone further backwards than we were at the end of 2008.

In no particular order, I would be reviewing Jarrod Atkinson, Stuart Crameri, Darcy Daniher, Courtenay Dempsey, Ricky Dyson, Leroy Jetta, Marcus Marigliani, David Myers, Jay Neagle, Brent Prismal, Michael Quinn, Michael Still, Andrew Welsh, John Williams and Jason Winderlich.

I would then see what they are going to offer the club in the future, and also see what they can offer other clubs now (Trade Value).

Players like Welsh, NLM, Atkinson, Laycock (is gone anyways you would imagine), H.Slattery, who continually put up mediocre performances.

I would love to see some tough calls made on some certain players, but after much thinking, will find it hard to see Essendon moving on such players as Leroy Jetta, David Myers even Bachar Houli and Sam Lonergan have shown a little bit in the past month.

I would love to see a high turnover of this list as I feel it is what is needed, started last year, but the wrong players I feel were not required to go..

This draft runs deep, according to many 'in the know', whilst there are many, many more Barlow's and Podsiadly's out there that every AFL club is probably looking at more than ever.

What do we need now, skillful types, ones who are good in tight but are also able to play outside, skills should be on the top of the list.

Add to that some different game plans as well, to change it up from the one that costs us to many goals each week if things turn pear shaped.

Would love to see us go after a mature aged ruckmen from a state league.

One name that has come across my head a little bit in recent weeks is Port Melbourne tall Callum Sinclair.

Sinclair is a 200cm CHF/Ruckmen who is averaging 2 goals a game in the strong and powerful Port Melbourne line up, not bad for a kid who is yet to turn 21.

Could be a very suitable pick up for Essendon as a mature aged ruckmen cum forward.

Another I would look at very closesly is former St.Kilda big man, Michael Rix, only for back up, but he is dominating in the WAFL these days, only as a depth player he could be handy as Tom Bellchambers may not be just quite there yet? so a mature # 3 ruckmen would be more suitable than a mature aged # 4 ruckmen (like Sinclair).

Sorry, a little off track, any names people would like to throw up as replacements for Laycock (who is gone you would imagine), Houli (who would almost certainly want more opportunities elsewhere) and even someone like Jetta (who is out of contract and may want to go home)?

 

[Slattery_20]

I'm aware we're not good.

I just disagree that our failings are in outside users of it. As we saw last year, Lovett - (AFL prospectus had us with 3 of the top 10 kicks in the league in 09, when weighted by risk/reward)- was able to spark us to 3 or 4 wins, but when the going got tough, the Bombers got found wanting at the clinches.

It's getting enough of the bloody thing (or rather, stopping the other lot from doing so) that's the real struggle, if you ask me.
Defensively-minded midfielders & guys who win their own footy are the things I'd set as priorities 1 and 2 at the moment.
Flankers who can run forward of the contest are dime a dozen.

 

[Yoda_]

I'm aware we're not good.

I just disagree that our failings are in outside users of it. As we saw last year, Lovett - (AFL prospectus had us with 3 of the top 10 kicks in the league in 09, when weighted by risk/reward)- was able to spark us to 3 or 4 wins, but when the going got tough, the Bombers got found wanting at the clinches.

It's getting enough of the bloody thing (or rather, stopping the other lot from doing so) that's the real struggle, if you ask me.
Defensively-minded midfielders & guys who win their own footy are the things I'd set as priorities 1 and 2 at the moment.
Flankers who can run forward of the contest are dime a dozen.

And you want Dempsey in the middle/wing?

I just want skilful players who work both ways..

If only we had another 3 - 4 Zaharakis'

 

[yaco55]

You keep saying this. I hardly think a first-year rookie listed player with a broken leg who hasn't played a single AFL game for one of the worst performed AFL clubs, but has shown some good signs in the VFL has any similarities to Mumford... A ruckman who played many AFL games over 2 seasons for the best team in the competition, playing in a position with a league wide deficiency of AFL quality players.
He'll stay on the rookie list, no danger there. Besides the only way we lose him is if he decides he doesn't want to stay on the rookie list, and takes his chances in the draft. Which I wouldn't have thought would be likely given his circumstances once again.

You dont understand the new rules.

He doesnt have to enter the ND - Another club can trade him away from Essendon.

 

[yaco55]

And you want Dempsey in the middle/wing?

I just want skilful players who work both ways..

If only we had another 3 - 4 Zaharakis'

And the 3 top Essendon players who were rated in the Top 10 for disposal efficiency were

Lovett - Gone
Dyson - Doesnt get it enough and dropped form this year
Dempsey - Must have been a statistical flaw

HFF

Keep on with the nuggets

' Dempsey needs to defend, not attack '

100% correct and to think we need more inside midfielders.

One or two inside midfielders are definitely needed but they need to be supported by defenders who actually know something about defending.

 

[Towno78]

You dont understand the new rules.

He doesnt have to enter the ND - Another club can trade him away from Essendon.

My understanding is fine.
Clubs can't just trade him away from us beyond our control. We have to agree to a trade for it to happen.

 

[yaco55]

My understanding is fine.
Clubs can't just trade him away from us beyond our control. We have to agree to a trade for it to happen.

But another club may have the upper hand - spots on lists, dollars etc.

And clubs have guys who sole job is to analyse the lists of other clubs.

 

[Slattery_20]

And you want Dempsey in the middle/wing?

No. Never have I said that, never intimated that, in fact I've argued against it a couple of times.
I'd say you couldn't be much further wrong on that.

 

[Towno78]

But another club may have the upper hand - spots on lists, dollars etc.

And clubs have guys who sole job is to analyse the lists of other clubs.

Yes, that's great and all, but to my actual point, I don't see where the great demand for Silverlock's services is coming from. The way you're speaking, its as though he streaked the field in the JJ Liston or something.

 

[lemon chicken]

Michael Rix??? Bloke was an absolute spud and would be 30 at the start of next year. These type of players are playing state leagues for a very good reason.

 

[Yoda_]

Michael Rix??? Bloke was an absolute spud and would be 30 at the start of next year. These type of players are playing state leagues for a very good reason.

Ben Howlett says hi

Sam Mitchell says hi

Harry Taylor also pops his head in and says hi

If they are good enough they will get a chance..


As for Michael Rix, he (along with Northern Bullant Orren Stephenson) are the two most dominant big men in the state competitions.

Some clubs are crying out for a bck up ruckmen, maybe for depth, but they would love one of them..

 

[Yoda_]

And the 3 top Essendon players who were rated in the Top 10 for disposal efficiency were

Lovett - Gone
Dyson - Doesnt get it enough and dropped form this year
Dempsey - Must have been a statistical flaw

HFF

Keep on with the nuggets

' Dempsey needs to defend, not attack '

100% correct and to think we need more inside midfielders.

One or two inside midfielders are definitely needed but they need to be supported by defenders who actually know something about defending.

I think we have got some very good inside midfielders too Yaco.

When we beat St.Kilda, we had Jobe Watson, Ben Howlett and Sam Lonergan as our starting 3 mids, last week was the same except we had Winderlich in there instead of Lonergan..

Are we sure it is not the cream that is letting us down and not the cake?

I would think that Watson, Lonergan, Howlett, Melksham (when he has played on ball) have all won a fair bit of the ball from the clearances..

Just need to kicking skills to kick the ball inside 50 to our leading forwards.