Review First Preliminary Final, 2017: Box Hill Hawks v Richmond Tigers, 16 September 2017, 2.40pm @ NPO

[houdinihuddo]

A very disappointing end to the season however I thought it was a very good performance for the team to finish 2nd on the ladder at the end of the H & A games given we had more than 10 HFC listed/rookie players missing all season.

Box Hill Hawks 0.1-1 4.2-26 5.3-33 8.6-54
Richmond 6.5-41 9.6-60 15.7-97 18.11-119

Box Hill Hawks
Goal Kickers: D. Mirra 2, O. Hanrahan, M. Pittonet, D. Willsmore, A. Kennedy, W. Murphy, K. Stewart
Best Players: M. Pittonet, K. Heatherley, W. Hams, O. Hanrahan, B. Whitecross, D. Mirra
Richmond
Goal Kickers: C. Moore 3, B. Lennon 2, S. Lloyd, J. Ballard, T. Hunt, C. Menadue, S. Mannagh, A. Miles, O. Markov, S. Darley, M. Chol, C. Ellis, I. Maric, S. Hampson, T. Stengle
Best Players: J. Batchelor, T. Hunt, C. Moore, J. Short, A. Miles, S. Hampson

 

[flinchfree]

When your full back is your leading goal scorer, you need to consider that your forward game plan might be below average. Problem for Box Hill is it's not really any of the BHH coach's game plan.

Oh well.

Newman will learn a hell of a lot from this, you would hope. Every strength BHH seemingly had, Richmond devised a strategy to shut it down. They tagged Moore who was the key cog in the clearance plan. They shut down Glass and made him accountable so as to lessen his freedom to provide run. They double teamed every kick down the line and ran harder to have the numbers at the fall of the ball. They knew BHH would move the ball slowly so they made sure to put a wall up 40m out from goal, which causes the Hawthorn BHH players to do what is drilled into them, which is bomb it high to the top of the square, disregarding the prior results of previous high ball attempts.

Could be the making of Chris Newman over summer if he remains BHH's coach for 2017. He will need to develop a will to be able to go to the Hawthorn coaches and sell the 'winning creates better development and a greater culture' story together with 'What works strategically in the AFL won't always work in the VFL especially if your AFL team aren't a contender' because what wasn't working for Hawthorn in the AFL sure as s**t didn't work for BHH either.

Do you feel like none of us hear (or can read) your continuous rant about Clarko and his coaching of a game plan?
Or just feel better saying it over, and over, and over......
Pretty sure everyone gets it, but no-one but you wants to pitch fork over it.
Weve seen our beautiful keepings off game.
Weve seen our intense press.
Weve seen our zone confound into error.
Weve seen our drafting/trading feed into smalls brilliantly coached into reading the fall of the ball.

You know, Clarko is more than one trick man.
Why don't you let him unveil, as the personnel allows, what comes next.
Please stop arrogantly painting him as yesterdays fool with zero tactical awareness.
Please?

 

[hk89]

When your full back is your leading goal scorer, you need to consider that your forward game plan might be below average. Problem for Box Hill is it's not really any of the BHH coach's game plan.

You don't think having 3 of our top 5 goal scorers out of the team might have had a massive impact on our scoring capabilities today? Isn't the game plan the same game plan that had BHH finish second on the ladder despite having highly reduced access to players due to injuries amongst both the VFL regulars and the AFL?

 

[Ordovician]

You guys were reamed by the umpires today.


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Yes, but even if we weren't so badly treated we still would have lost by a large margin the way we kicked, the options we choose, our chronically inflexible game instructions, and the way your pressure shut us down.

We were woeful today, end of story.

 

[houdinihuddo]

You don't think having 3 of our top 5 goal scorers out of the team might have had a massive impact on our scoring capabilities today? Isn't the game plan the same game plan that had BHH finish second on the ladder despite having highly reduced access to players due to injuries amongst both the VFL regulars and the AFL?

On Friday I posted "I expect a very torrid first quarter against the upbeat Tigers. To win the game we will need to be brave and take the game on because tempo footy will not work against the type of manic pressure which undid Geelong in the QF." Sadly when I observed the 8 in defense 4 in attack set up before the first centre bounce I knew the game was effectively over. hk89, having 3 of our top 5 goal scorers out of the team does not have a massive impact on our scoring capabilities when your forwards are outnumbered 6 to 4 because any advantage in winning the centre clearance is clearly negated. The 8/4 set up stuffed the development team in the final loss against Williamstown and handicapped/restricted the senior team in the QF win against Port Melbourne. The defensive negative 8/4 set up needs to be flushed down the toilet !

 

[The Cleaner]

There's bound to be a bit of debate here on tactics but it felt like our performance in general tapered off towards the end of the season. Throw us into a prelim against a buoyant Tigers team with next to no injuries and packed with AFL players desperate to impress and.. it all felt a little inevitable.

Some of this tapering off coincided with all the talent promoted to cover Hawthorn's endless injuries. Consider the sorts of names BHH could have played yesterday. Some of it's related to the youth in our team -- the likes of Morrison had a stronger first half of year, as would be expected at his age. There was a time when many of these guys would be eased into the year via the Dev team. Then you had the long term injuries to BHH personnel like O'Rourke, Lovell, Cousins, Hanrahan, Lewis, etc. Throw in the unavailability of all our key marking forwards (Vickery, Schoey, Jones) and we were really up against it.

All-in-all, a better than expected year and respect goes out to Chris Newman. I'm already excited to see what we'll get from some of these emerging talents in 2018. We could easily take it a couple of steps further.

 

[TheFourPillars]

We suffered a quite a few injuries in the back end of the year.

Switta, Jones, Mitchell Lewis, Cousins, Lovell(i know he wasn't there most of the year but would have been handy)
Vickery suspended
Schoey in Europe

These players of the top of my head would have made a difference. Would have changed our structures quite a bit.

As it is the tigers were far too good. Their game plan is fairly simplistic if you can match them for leg speed you will beat them as their players are not that skilled. They just hack it forward and have their fleet of foot players pounce or provide pressure.
Its the way the game is headed unfortunately its all about leg speed now.
At least it is not based on some dubious disposal. I am sure it will go by the way side soon enough. Till then the tigers are at the top of the heap.
They are playing with confidence and playing as a team. Makes all the difference.

 

[hk89]

On Friday I posted "I expect a very torrid first quarter against the upbeat Tigers. To win the game we will need to be brave and take the game on because tempo footy will not work against the type of manic pressure which undid Geelong in the QF." Sadly when I observed the 8 in defense 4 in attack set up before the first centre bounce I knew the game was effectively over. hk89, having 3 of our top 5 goal scorers out of the team does not have a massive impact on our scoring capabilities when your forwards are outnumbered 6 to 4 because any advantage in winning the centre clearance is clearly negated. The 8/4 set up stuffed the development team in the final loss against Williamstown and handicapped/restricted the senior team in the QF win against Port Melbourne. The defensive negative 8/4 set up needs to be flushed down the toilet !

Looked to me like we'd have been smashed by more without that setup given the number of inside 50s Richmond were producing.
You talk of "any advantage in winning the centre clearance is clearly negated", which centre clearances would they be? I'm not sure how BHH did in clearances over the course of this year, but we've not done well in this stat in recent years, and I didn't see us win many yesterday. Consistently losing clearances is probably partly why you see the defensive setups we are using in the AFL, and I'd guess similar reasons are driving its use in the VFL (apart from the obvious advantage of having your developing players use a game plan similar to what they'll see in the seniors). The wet conditions made it difficult to make that setup work where we try to win possession back in the defensive half, and then produce attacks from there with precision kicking out of the backline. Perhaps you can argue the game plan should have changed to reflect the weather conditions, but it is hard to move away from something you've drilled into the players all year.

Of course having 3 of our top 5 goal scorers out of the team has an impact on scoring capabilities - outnumbered or not it is going to be harder to score with your top scorers out of the side. The reality is with 19 AFL listed players versus 11, with most of the 19 hoping to get called up to a side that could be playing in a GF in 2 weeks time, it was always going to be a very hard game to win. BHH won plenty of games this year, and suddenly they lose a prelim against a more experienced and more talented (based on AFL to non-AFL list ratio) side , in conditions that didn't suit their game plan, and with key players out, and the game plan is useless?

 

[The Cleaner]

As it is the tigers were far too good. Their game plan is fairly simplistic if you can match them for leg speed you will beat them as their players are not that skilled. They just hack it forward and have their fleet of foot players pounce or provide pressure.
Its the way the game is headed unfortunately its all about leg speed now.
At least it is not based on some dubious disposal. I am sure it will go by the way side soon enough. Till then the tigers are at the top of the heap.
They are playing with confidence and playing as a team. Makes all the difference.

Does anyone else see the comparison with the Bulldogs surge of 2016 and wonder if it's similarly unsustainable? That frantic, high pressure game the Bulldogs used to end our 2016 season felt like playing the AFL Tigers this year and VFL Tigers yesterday. Not a highly skilled team but bringing speed, numbers and pressure to every contest. It has to take its toll on players. Whether you can actually build long-term success playing like this remains to be seen.

 

[hk89]

Does anyone else see the comparison with the Bulldogs surge of 2016 and wonder if it's similarly unsustainable? That frantic, high pressure game the Bulldogs used to end our 2016 season felt like playing the AFL Tigers this year and VFL Tigers yesterday. Not a highly skilled team but bringing speed, numbers and pressure to every contest. It has to take its toll on players. Whether you can actually build long-term success playing like this remains to be seen.

I think that's a good point, but I also think a return to a normal sized injury list next year will make it very hard for Richmond to reproduce the success of this year (at both AFL and VFL).

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

...... our chronically inflexible game instructions, and the way your pressure shut us down...

The game panned out remarkably similarly to the AFL Tigs/Hawks match. Clarko owns the zoning teams but the plan seems to struggle when up against a team that puts pressure on the ball. Danger and Martin cause havoc cos they are almost impossible to tackle. The nearest we have to that type is Langers. A lot of our future plans will rely on Jaegar.

We were snookered defensively. No height so we had to commit to having a plus one down back to go the third man up.

The game highlighted a few deficiencies in Kurt, Miles, Wilsmore, Stewart and WhiteX. I was pretty happy with Pitt, Harry goes good and I liked seeing Ollie in the guts. Nash and Glass wouldhave gotten a heap out of that match. The one that caused me the most heartburn was Jono.

 

[grimlock]

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Pretty disappointing making the trek to Port Melbourne only for the match to be over 15 minutes into the 1st quarter.

 

[houdinihuddo]

The stats support Marc Pittonet being our best player. He played a loan hand in the ruck with 33 hit outs against Hampson 24 and Maric 16 who have played 98 and 157 games respectively. Sadly a fair number of Marc's hit outs were better read by the opposition which has occurred too often in recent games. I often consider there to be more blame on our onballers than Marc. Our tackle count of 61 was poor with only Kade Stewart a game high 10 tackles and Jono O'Rourke 6 tackles applying any defensive pressure. Dallas Willsmore's 8 disposals speak louder than any words could about his poor game. By contrast Will Hams was an inspiration with his courage and is a very good player. Ollie Hanrahan is a very exciting prospect who gave me some joy and Joey Fisher certainly gave his all as an undersized KPP. Finally Kurt Heatherley defended strongly against great odds. I recorded the game however as yet I haven't been motivated to review the game from a television perspective.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

8 disposals from willsmore and 9 from miles...that hurts enormously and may hurt their careers more than anything. Willsmore is surely gone and i know miles has a contract next year but that is really poor from him as one of the more gifted players in the side. The way he gets swatted off the ball is a major worry. Still has spaghetti arms...any danger he gets stronger?

Ollie kurt pitto glass all ok and have futures.

Mirra was huge. Take not Teia.

Whitecross should be moved on but again has a contract for next year.

Jor is just a link in the chain at best. Really is borderline rookie material but he does find the ball off hands well at stoppages so that is where he is better than other prospects to be able to carve out an afl career but right up against it so far.

Hams was good. Quite a nice player.

Andrew moore the other big disappointment for mine. Really got shown up after being a real leader all year.

Proud of the boys efforts this season and a good find in chris newman.

 

[pomahawk]

Did Stewart really give away TWELVE free kicks?! Makes Sis's game vs Carlton pale into comparison...

 

[VandoHawk]

Did Stewart really give away TWELVE free kicks?! Makes Sis's game vs Carlton pale into comparison...

Only half of them were there. He was given a free against because a player ran headfirst into him

 

[stemline]

Those free kick columns don't add up at all for either side.

Regardless, thanks to grimlock for posting the stats each week - really appreciated. Hopefully we see him again next year in the Box Hill threads.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Thanks again for your work this season Grimlock. Much appreciated.

Pretty clear we need some height and some speed.

Great season from Pitt. Has come a long way this season.

 

[stemline]

8 disposals from willsmore and 9 from miles...that hurts enormously and may hurt their careers more than anything. Willsmore is surely gone and i know miles has a contract next year but that is really poor from him as one of the more gifted players in the side. The way he gets swatted off the ball is a major worry. Still has spaghetti arms...any danger he gets stronger?

Ollie kurt pitto glass all ok and have futures.

Mirra was huge. Take not Teia.

Whitecross should be moved on but again has a contract for next year.

Jor is just a link in the chain at best. Really is borderline rookie material but he does find the ball off hands well at stoppages so that is where he is better than other prospects to be able to carve out an afl career but right up against it so far.

Hams was good. Quite a nice player.

Andrew moore the other big disappointment for mine. Really got shown up after being a real leader all year.

Proud of the boys efforts this season and a good find in chris newman.

Reckon you've nailed every point here.

Agree Moore was really disappointing - he spent so much energy getting sucked into fights in the first qtr he barely saw the ball. Cost us goals as well with poor discipline. He's been good this year though, but geez we needed him on game.

Willsmore played the last 3 qtrs up forward looking hobbled. Regardless, the intensity of finals footy doesn't suit him at all. He played like he already knew his fate.

 

[Goldhawk]

So where do the players that played in the development side this year play next year ?

 

[houdinihuddo]

So where do the players that played in the development side this year play next year ?

Local footy and the Amateurs. Sadly some of the boys coming out of the TAC who don't get drafted or rookied will give away aussie rules. What a disgrace trashing the development league which costs club $120,000 a year to run when the AFL are throwing millions of dollars into the massively inferior women's football.

 

[Gralin]

Local footy and the Amateurs. Sadly some of the boys coming out of the TAC who don't get drafted or rookied will give away aussie rules. What a disgrace trashing the development league which costs club $120,000 a year to run when the AFL are throwing millions of dollars into the massively inferior women's football.

i cannot like this post

 

[The Cleaner]

i cannot like this post

It's not the first time he's trotted that one out and I daresay it won't be the last.

 

[Gralin]

It's not the first time he's trotted that one out and I daresay it won't be the last.

I agree with 80% of it and don't like the fact they are shutting down Dev league it's a valuable pathway

Maybe they are shutting it down for the women's league, maybe that's just an excuse but I'm happy for women's footy to get funding

Like I said I can't like the post I don't want the Dev league to be shut down but I don't want women's footy to be the scape goat either