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G Mus

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But it just isn't true, you can tell by simply watching their games that they value skills over just repeat entries with no thought.
Not really, they don’t often pick off precise leads, a lot of their goals come from open leads generated through blocking and the open player hitting crafted space which is blindly kicked into or a lot of pack generated goals, they aren’t really a slice and dice team
 

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dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
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I'd guess their contested marking players are above average.

Just to bring that home, by 2019 averages, Fremantle has the #1 and #8 contested marks per game players in the league. Both injured. Tabs and Lobb.
Where am I arguing about what Fremantle have or don't currently have, the fact is the poster said "West Coast openly don’t care about quality of delivery i50 just aim to get as many as possible in" which is so far from the truth. The only teams behind them on inside 50 counts are the Suns, Blues and Swans. I wasn't talking about what an amazing mark Tabs is.
 

Taylor

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Where am I arguing about what Fremantle have or don't currently have, the fact is the poster said "West Coast openly don’t care about quality of delivery i50 just aim to get as many as possible in" which is so far from the truth. The only teams behind them on inside 50 counts are the Suns, Blues and Swans. I wasn't talking about what an amazing mark Tabs is.
I was the one who brought up their elite tall forwards that turn a long kick into a ground ball or mark.
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
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Not really, they don’t often pick off precise leads, a lot of their goals come from open leads generated through blocking and the open player hitting crafted space which is blindly kicked into or a lot of pack generated goals, they aren’t really a slice and dice team
Third for marks per game and 15th for inside 50s, nah you are right they are just a blindly kick inside 50 type of team.
 

Taylor

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But that was never the argument.
I don't need to step into an argument about the sky being green to show you why the sky is blue.

They are a team that is built on their structure, their contested marking forwards make their ball movement a lot better. Their contested marking defenders stifle the same plan from the opposition.

I see your point about them having less inside fifties and I notice that they also have a huge number of rebounds out of defensive fifty so that would suggest to me that they lose the ball in the middle while trying to attack, that doesn't suggest high skills. That suggests the ball gets split by stoppages from marking attempts up the ground.
 

go_the_dockers

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What are people's thoughts on having a director of football?

Pretty much he sets the preferred style of play and then let's the coach coach. Ideally this person is their for the long term, and this lets them focus on the long term interests of the club.

It works really well in Soccer, I don't see why it would not work in the AFL.

 

G Mus

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Third for marks per game and 15th for inside 50s, nah you are right they are just a blindly kick inside 50 type of team.
Maybe watch some games, stop listening to the commentators and don’t look at stats so much, especially season long stats for this year when at the start of the year they had massive issues with not adhering to their own game plan

The marks are there because they are a high kick to handball ratio team

They have a great forward craft at creating space in their hot zones, or numbers deep as well as defending their f50 entries
 

BlueE

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Welcome to the reality of young men not maturing as fast as would be ideal.

He would be a development coach primarily. His career is in the living memory of these young players.
I was thinking I'd gone a bit hard on the young fellas, I don't usually do that ... and could see that Reiwoldt is someone of outstanding character that who could kick plenty of goals.

But IMO just because his career is in the living memory of Cox and Dixon and you saying (or the Club with it's attitude) this is important demonstrates no respect for legends of the game that may be better teachers, analysts and specialist coaches.

Unless Freo was just wanting to employ Reiwoldt as a specialist coach only on minimal or no salary, or we just want a babysitter to pump Cox and Dixon up, then I don't think someone out of the game with no experience at being an assistant coach would be any improvement on the assistants we've got.

However, I think Freo's problem is not just our young men are immature because most are not, but there are continual reports of bad behavious that are unchecked or dealt with ineffectively. I've suggested the Integrity Officer model before, because it's worked in other clubs in far worse positions than us.

Also there is a big problem with the players skill levels and how they are supposed to integrate with Peel IMO, which saps confidence and motivation and it's more important to address that for improvement with our young players. I don't believe that is something Reiwoldt is qualified or able to do.
 

BlueE

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They are an example of drilled structure.
They value skills and train lots of different ways for the player on a lead to mark and kick.

Another point of difference is when they train to get the ball out of defence there is always different options and they'll have continuous drills that practice all options (down the line, cut the angle through the middle or switch) that the players react and move to new positions or to be the next lead, depending on initial decisions made.

This combines structure with skills and players are constantly reacting and moving to different positions, firstly groups of 8 -10 no defence and not one kick missed or mark dropped, then pressure is gradually increased with token defence and then match simulation.

This example is probably a 15 - 20 minute drill and might take weeks without defence initially.
 
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Taylor

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I was thinking I'd gone a bit hard on the young fellas, I don't usually do that ... and could see that Reiwoldt is someone of outstanding character that who could kick plenty of goals.

But IMO just because his career is in the living memory of Cox and Dixon and you saying (or the Club with it's attitude) this is important demonstrates no respect for legends of the game that may be better teachers, analysts and specialist coaches.

Unless Freo was just wanting to employ Reiwoldt as a specialist coach only on minimal or no salary, or we just want a babysitter to pump Cox and Dixon up, then I don't think someone out of the game with no experience at being an assistant coach would be any improvement on the assistants we've got.

However, I think Freo's problem is not just our young men are immature because most are not, but there are continual reports of bad behavious that are unchecked or dealt with ineffectively. I've suggested the Integrity Officer model before, because it's worked in other clubs in far worse positions than us.

Also there is a big problem with the players skill levels and how they are supposed to integrate with Peel IMO, which saps confidence and motivation and it's more important to address that for improvement with our young players. I don't believe that is something Reiwoldt is qualified or able to do.
You're piling on the expectations and then cutting down the whole tree because of them.

Nick Reiwoldt is a superstar who lived the required life to do it. He can look both our young forwards in the eye and tell them what they need to change and it comes from a place of recent lived experience. Not the likes of Jason Dunstal who played in a totally different era with different expectations. Nick is from this era. He is an athlete as much as he is a footballer.

I haven't even mentioned the impact he could have on Taberner. We don't need all our assistants to be blowing a whistle in a cap and shorts working a drill. We just need them to make our players better and I believe he would make at least two of our players better. Two very critical players for our long term future at a critical point of their careers.

Again, I haven't mentioned the benefit a player like him could have for our defenders either. Short of getting Luke McPharlin in to teach some niggles.

As far as experience goes, I'd take a risk on him. Just as I'd take a risk on Fyfe being a good communicator if a coaching position opened up for him to move into post career.
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
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Maybe watch some games, stop listening to the commentators and don’t look at stats so much, especially season long stats for this year when at the start of the year they had massive issues with not adhering to their own game plan

The marks are there because they are a high kick to handball ratio team

They have a great forward craft at creating space in their hot zones, or numbers deep as well as defending their f50 entries
I do watch the games and they are far from a "get it inside 50 as many times without caring" team which was you initial incorrect argument.
 

Scham

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I don't need to step into an argument about the sky being green to show you why the sky is blue.

They are a team that is built on their structure, their contested marking forwards make their ball movement a lot better. Their contested marking defenders stifle the same plan from the opposition.

I see your point about them having less inside fifties and I notice that they also have a huge number of rebounds out of defensive fifty so that would suggest to me that they lose the ball in the middle while trying to attack, that doesn't suggest high skills. That suggests the ball gets split by stoppages from marking attempts up the ground.

So they build their structure around contested markers but we have the No 1 and No 8 contested markers in the league. Where do theirs sit?
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
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I don't need to step into an argument about the sky being green to show you why the sky is blue.

They are a team that is built on their structure, their contested marking forwards make their ball movement a lot better. Their contested marking defenders stifle the same plan from the opposition.

I see your point about them having less inside fifties and I notice that they also have a huge number of rebounds out of defensive fifty so that would suggest to me that they lose the ball in the middle while trying to attack, that doesn't suggest high skills. That suggests the ball gets split by stoppages from marking attempts up the ground.
The argument was never that they utilise their key marking forwards, the argument was that they aren't simply a repeat entry inside 50 team. Nothing I have seen or anything I have read suggests that they are. You brought up Tabs and Hogan for some reason to suggest that the Eagles and Dockers play a similar game style which they don't.

Anyway, I have no idea why this is even a debate. Poster suggested that the Eagles were an all out get it inside 50 at any cost team which they clearly aren't.
 

BlueE

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You're piling on the expectations and then cutting down the whole tree because of them.

Nick Reiwoldt is a superstar who lived the required life to do it. He can look both our young forwards in the eye and tell them what they need to change and it comes from a place of recent lived experience. Not the likes of Jason Dunstal who played in a totally different era with different expectations. Nick is from this era. He is an athlete as much as he is a footballer.

I haven't even mentioned the impact he could have on Taberner. We don't need all our assistants to be blowing a whistle in a cap and shorts working a drill. We just need them to make our players better and I believe he would make at least two of our players better. Two very critical players for our long term future at a critical point of their careers.

Again, I haven't mentioned the benefit a player like him could have for our defenders either. Short of getting Luke McPharlin in to teach some niggles.

As far as experience goes, I'd take a risk on him. Just as I'd take a risk on Fyfe being a good communicator if a coaching position opened up for him to move into post career.
Is he going to live with them is he? Have to trust them sometimes and while recognising that one of the definitions of teenage (of which they're now not, being 20) is risk taker being on an AFL list should give self motivation and determination.

Brayshaw is one of the best examples and would be a far better leader by example for them.

Fyfe would be a good assistant coach moving straight from a player if there was a rookie position, or someone was offering him a 10 year playing/coaching deal I guess?

I don't see the need in our club for rookies with no experience and no recent game play to be an assistant coach. We would be better off keeping Geurra, at least he now has experience.
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
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So Darling is 20th and JK is 45th. That's not a structure based on contested marking.
Yet they are 5th and 10th for marks inside 50, it's almost like the Eagles value precise inside 50s rather than just blind repeat entries...insert thinking man emoji.
 

G Mus

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Contested marking =/= quantity > quality driven i50 mentality

It seems as if you’re clutching on to this mythical good delivery inside 50 = goals = what the eagles does therefore we just fix that and we become good

It’s a The West Australian level analysis or something at half time spurted by Dermott and very outdated. The eagles do not play laterally and work angles into 50 from the edge, they pump it in at every opportunity, if they waited their pockets would collapse and it would ruin their scoring efficiency drastically
 

G Mus

Norm Smith Medallist
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Yet they are 5th and 10th for marks inside 50, it's almost like the Eagles value precise inside 50s rather than just blind repeat entries...insert thinking man emoji.
Result of the defence not being set and the ball being delivered to hot zones which are vacated and blocked off, those marks inside 50 are a bastion of their style and not proof to the contrary


You may be misunderstanding me;

The players execution isn’t what’s bad quality nor is their scoring efficiency

What I’m saying is they don’t wait for a better option and a better option and work it round before entering, their mantra is look for the created space, if not there hit the pack and work the smalls and turnover pressure

The f50 is prepped before the deliverer often has the ball
 
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dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
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Result of the defence not being set and the ball being delivered to hot zones which are vacated and blocked off, those marks inside 50 are a bastion of their style and not proof to the contrary


You may be misunderstanding me;

The players execution isn’t what’s bad quality nor is their scoring efficiency

What I’m saying is they don’t wait for a better option and a better option and work it round before entering, their mantra is look for the created space, if not there hit the pack and work the smalls and turnover pressure

The f50 is prepped before the deliverer often has the ball
I must be misunderstanding you as your exact wording was "West Coast openly don’t care about quality of delivery i50 just aim to get as many as possible in."

That is incorrect and you have been called out for saying so, everything since has been a backtrack on a terrible terrible call.
 

Taylor

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I must be misunderstanding you as your exact wording was "West Coast openly don’t care about quality of delivery i50 just aim to get as many as possible in."

That is incorrect and you have been called out for saying so, everything since has been a backtrack on a terrible terrible call.
Did Simpson not say that in the press this season?
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
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Did Simpson not say that in the press this season?
Did he? Did he say that he simply doesn't care about quality of entries just volume? They are 15th in the league for inside 50s so he clearly isn't getting the message through to the players. But at least we have Tabs right?
 

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