Coaching Staff Former Coach Ben "Truck" Rutten - Sacked for real this time - 21/8

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VelvetSledge said:
Tim Watson on SEN had just said that Josh Eyre sent him a text asking if he’d be available to present him his #32 jumper at the presentation. He’ll be presenting the news of course, but they’ve organised to catch up another time.

I feel as though this is a Truck thing, and I’m all for it. Embracing the history of the club and rebuilding pride in where you are.
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What a fantastic attitude from Eyre. Love that.

Honour the lead, Watson. Lift your game.



Sorry, Timmy.
 
The most interesting thing I took from Rutten's interview with Toomey was that part of the fallout of the review at the end of 2020 was that the players wanted less empowerment and more direction.

In my view that is definitely the place to start with this latest rebuild. A list full of unfulfilled talents, many of whom seem quite introverted, and kids is going to need a firm guiding hand. They will earn their autonomy with time, I don't believe in unearned autonomy/empowerment.

It's a contradictory indicator of maturity that the players could see the need for this and, frankly, quite alarming because the environment must really have felt aimless/out of control for the players to see it themselves.

Rutten's manner is really growing on me. I also like that he seems be looking at a way to maximise the available talent on the list.
 
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BrunoV said:
The most interesting thing I took from Rutten's interview with Toomey was that part of the fallout of the review at the end of 2020 was that the players wanted less empowerment and more direction.

In my view that is definitely the place to start with this latest rebuild. A list full of unfulfilled talent, many of whom seem quite introverted, and kids is going to need a firm guiding hand. They will earn their autonomy with time, I don't believe in unearned autonomy/empowerment.

It's a contradictory indicator of maturity that the players could see the need for this and, frankly, quite alarming because the environment must really have felt aimless/out of control for the players to see it themselves.

Rutten's manner is really growing on me. I also like that he seems be looking at a way to maximise the available talent on the list.
Click to expand...

We’ve seen and heard a few players that are really starting to improve through the club environment.

Last year we saw Ridley improve. Langford taking big steps forward (I think Cara has taken him under his wing?). McGrath is growing as a player and leader.

Merrett is working with Parish and the coaching panel is now playing him in his better position.

Rutten seemed very bullish about Francis in his podcast too.

Hooker and Stringer dropping a few kgs too...Walla looks a bit leaner as well.

Glad Rutten is enforcing standards and accountability. But kind of concerned that we kept with the “player empowerment” for so long.
 

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BrunoV said:
The most interesting thing I took from Rutten's interview with Toomey was that part of the fallout of the review at the end of 2020 was that the players wanted less empowerment and more direction.

In my view that is definitely the place to start with this latest rebuild. A list full of unfulfilled talent, many of whom seem quite introverted, and kids is going to need a firm guiding hand. They will earn their autonomy with time, I don't believe in unearned autonomy/empowerment.

It's a contradictory indicator of maturity that the players could see the need for this and, frankly, quite alarming because the environment must really have felt aimless/out of control for the players to see it themselves.

Rutten's manner is really growing on me. I also like that he seems be looking at a way to maximise the available talent on the list.
Click to expand...
It’s something Brasher talked about a lot in those videos that were published and the summary of the review at the end of last year.

I think Worsfold’s research was right - autonomous, empowered teams do play better - but as you said they need to earn that empowerment with maturity and experience. Correlation ≠ causation.
 
Lore said:
It’s something Brasher talked about a lot in those videos that were published and the summary of the review at the end of last year.

I think Worsfold’s research was right - autonomous, empowered teams do play better - but as you said they need to earn that empowerment with maturity and experience. Correlation ≠ causation.
Click to expand...
Who would you say are/were the "empowered" teams? The cats (07-11) spring to mind as one. But I'd say the Hawks teams, the Tigers, Malthouse magpies were all drilled to pretty strict plans.
 
yodellinhank said:
Who would you say are/were the "empowered" teams? The cats (07-11) spring to mind as one. But I'd say the Hawks teams, the Tigers, Malthouse magpies were all drilled to pretty strict plans.
Click to expand...

I can remember after the 2016 season, and Hardwick had all the speculation about being sacked and they tried to overthrow the board, he spoke during the preseason about letting the Tigers “have fun” on the field. Lots of people, myself included, made fun of him and I think he was predicted to be one of the first sackings. Absolutely worked for them.

in 2018, Buckley acknowledged that he’d “loosened” the reins a bit for the players as well. Which obviously worked well for them too.
 
Watching the Amazon doco is a really good insight into how the coaches operate and the different styles. It all depends where the list is at, the experience and age demographic to find a style that suits. Dew looks like he's got a great relationship with his players at the Suns. He's relatable and very patient, but does deliver a couple of nice sprays. He looks like he knows when to challenge the players and when to back off, which looks like it suits the young group. My outside perception of Nicks from Adelaide last year was that he was out of his depth in a big way. But he comes across as very impressive, he clearly identifies with his players a few non negotiables, looks like he can get his point across and stays strong during the losing streak. Simpson from West Coast has got a very well drilled, experienced line up and they obviously won the flag 2 years ago. He's very calm and measured, even through the bad start to the season, but showcases a very good understanding of the modern game and tactics. Leon Cameron is the train wreck of the show. It really is unbelievable to watch him at work. None of the players look like they want to play for him. They dont look engaged when he's talking. To be honest it looks like the players think he's a bit of a knob. And he comes across like one too. Great viewing if you haven't watched it yet. We see a little bit of Teague and he looks engaged with the players. Will be interesting to see whether he can deliver on the finals expectations. Damien Hardwick looks like he's in cruise control the whole time, all the way through to the premiership. Its fascinating to watch him interact with his players. They are obviously so well drilled in their system all he seems to do is just reinforce it and keep the players believing. He engages all of the players and teaches them without being condescending. Then when he delivers game day speeches he nails them and the players look like they're ready to run through brick walls for him. Ive noticed in a few videos of Truck he seems to talk to our players in the same way Dimma does. He's relatable and engaging. I feel like if we'd had a camera crew following Woosh around we would've seen some pretty cringeworthy interactions and seen just how out of touch he'd become with the playing list. I honestly have no idea how you could've thought our playing list at the end of 2017 required a player driven culture, leadership and on field direction. The list was full of kids and players who'd never won a final. Cats 2011, yeah leave it up to the players. Hawthorn 2015, yep they all knew exactly what was needed as well. Luckily for us Truck looks like he knows what he's doing.
 
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DallasCrane316 said:
I can remember after the 2016 season, and Hardwick had all the speculation about being sacked and they tried to overthrow the board, he spoke during the preseason about letting the Tigers “have fun” on the field. Lots of people, myself included, made fun of him and I think he was predicted to be one of the first sackings. Absolutely worked for them.

in 2018, Buckley acknowledged that he’d “loosened” the reins a bit for the players as well. Which obviously worked well for them too.
Click to expand...
I think Hird would've done well to let the bombers "have fun" on his return. Players needed to fall back in love with the club and game. Instead I think he tried to pick up where he left off.

'07 cats certainly played with lots of flair, but it was only possible due to how well drilled they were. The no-look handballs only work when you know someone is going to be there. Coach eating sammiches.
 
BrunoV said:
The most interesting thing I took from Rutten's interview with Toomey was that part of the fallout of the review at the end of 2020 was that the players wanted less empowerment and more direction.

In my view that is definitely the place to start with this latest rebuild. A list full of unfulfilled talent, many of whom seem quite introverted, and kids is going to need a firm guiding hand. They will earn their autonomy with time, I don't believe in unearned autonomy/empowerment.

It's a contradictory indicator of maturity that the players could see the need for this and, frankly, quite alarming because the environment must really have felt aimless/out of control for the players to see it themselves.

Rutten's manner is really growing on me. I also like that he seems be looking at a way to maximise the available talent on the list.
Click to expand...

IMO it highlights the lack of depth in the leadership we have experienced for a long time. Clubs that have a strong leadership core can drive the standards. Those that do not need to as you say earn the autonomy / empowerment .
 
yodellinhank said:
Who would you say are/were the "empowered" teams? The cats (07-11) spring to mind as one. But I'd say the Hawks teams, the Tigers, Malthouse magpies were all drilled to pretty strict plans.
Click to expand...

Geelong always had a set standard to live up to despite playing a bit more footy with flare. It is not just about playing a set plan. The Hawks where very much player driven despite the Clarkson game plan being the driving force. You only have to listen to Hodge talk to know it. Clarko gave them the plan and the leadership group drove it. Richmond is not as much about set plan as it is about pressure and keeping the ball moving and it is also been driven by their leaders playing the team game rather than doing their own thing. Sydney have been the same. I would even say the Eagles under Worsfold played a game where players where allowed to be creative but there was a team aspect to defense that worked because the players drove it.
 
Bjchan13 said:
Watching the Amazon doco is a really good insight into how the coaches operate and the different styles. It all depends where the list is at, the experience and age demographic to find a style that suits. Dew looks like he's got a great relationship with his players at the Suns. He's relatable and very patient, but does deliver a couple of nice sprays. He looks like he knows when to challenge the players and when to back off, which looks like it suits the young group. My outside perception of Nicks from Adelaide last year was that he was out of his depth in a big way. But he comes across as very impressive, he clearly identifies with his players a few non negotiables, looks like he can get his point across and stays strong during the losing streak. Simpson from West Coast has got a very well drilled, experienced line up and they obviously won the flag 2 years ago. He's very calm and measured, even through the bad start to the season, but showcases a very good understanding of the modern game and tactics. Leon Cameron is the train wreck of the show. It really is unbelievable to watch him at work. None of the players look like they want to play for him. They dont look engaged when he's talking. To be honest it looks like the players think he's a bit of a knob. And he comes across like one too. Great viewing if you haven't watched it yet. We see a little bit of Teague and he looks engaged with the players. Will be interesting to see whether he can deliver on the finals expectations. Damien Hardwick looks like he's in cruise control the whole time, all the way through to the premiership. Its fascinating to watch him interact with his players. They are obviously so well drilled in their system all he seems to do is just reinforce it and keep the players believing. He engages all of the players and teaches them without being condescending. Then when he delivers game day speeches he nails them and the players look like they're ready to run through brick walls for him. Ive noticed in a few videos of Truck he seems to talk to our players in the same way Dimma does. He's relatable and engaging. I feel like if we'd had a camera crew following Woosh around we would've seen some pretty cringeworthy interactions and seen just how out of touch he'd become with the playing list. I honestly have no idea how you could've thought our playing list at the end of 2017 required a player driven culture, leadership and on field direction. The list was full of kids and players who'd never won a final. Cats 2011, yeah leave it up to the players. Hawthorn 2015, yep they all knew exactly what was needed as well. Luckily for us Truck looks like he knows what he's doing.
Click to expand...
Woosha's appointment at the time would have had its troubles though. The last time the players strictly adhered to the coaches they ended up being laid off for a year and branded as cheats, druggos and criminals. We're told though that Woosh was brought in to provide stability and structure, and he then promotes a player driven system. It was complicated, which is not to say I'm an apologist for Woosh. I think he needed to think more carefully about delegating the drivers of structure.
 
Dear Truck,

Love your work ethic, attitude & intent. However, when being interviewed can you please, please oh please begin your reply with any choice of words other than 'Yeah look' :eek:

Same goes for Hepp !

Thanks in advance.
 
elphamale said:
Dear Truck,

Love your work ethic, attitude & intent. However, when being interviewed can you please, please oh please begin your reply with any choice of words other than 'Yeah look' :eek:

Same goes for Hepp !

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Yeah, nah - I think there smashing it.
 

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ant555 said:
Geelong always had a set standard to live up to despite playing a bit more footy with flare. It is not just about playing a set plan. The Hawks where very much player driven despite the Clarkson game plan being the driving force. You only have to listen to Hodge talk to know it. Clarko gave them the plan and the leadership group drove it. Richmond is not as much about set plan as it is about pressure and keeping the ball moving and it is also been driven by their leaders playing the team game rather than doing their own thing. Sydney have been the same. I would even say the Eagles under Worsfold played a game where players where allowed to be creative but there was a team aspect to defense that worked because the players drove it.
Click to expand...

Were they allowed to be more player driven once those core leaders had the experience and autonomy to drive it though?

Watching Hardwick, you can see they're now player driven because they've had the system hammered in to them for years, and those senior guys know exactly what they need to do. I imagine Clarkson with Hodge would have been the same, Clarkson driving it early then simply managing and reinforcing the system side of things whilst the leadership group drove the players.

EFC didn't have the system to begin with, and didn't have the leaders. You had a bus driver who didn't have their HR license, driving a bus route they've never seen, basically.

I think Rutten appears to be driving the bus, showing the guys how to do it, and where the bus needs to go.


 
ghostdog said:
Woosha's appointment at the time would have had its troubles though. The last time the players strictly adhered to the coaches they ended up being laid off for a year and branded as cheats, druggos and criminals. We're told though that Woosh was brought in to provide stability and structure, and he then promotes a player driven system. It was complicated, which is not to say I'm an apologist for Woosh. I think he needed to think more carefully about delegating the drivers of structure.
Click to expand...

I still think Worsfold was the right choice in 2016. The extension shouldn't have happened. Worsfold should have been a Roos at Melbourne appointment; coming in to steady the ship and rebuild the organisation, then handing over to a long-term senior coach. Effectively that's what they've done, it just happened two years too late.
 
DallasCrane316 said:
I can remember after the 2016 season, and Hardwick had all the speculation about being sacked and they tried to overthrow the board, he spoke during the preseason about letting the Tigers “have fun” on the field. Lots of people, myself included, made fun of him and I think he was predicted to be one of the first sackings. Absolutely worked for them.

in 2018, Buckley acknowledged that he’d “loosened” the reins a bit for the players as well. Which obviously worked well for them too.
Click to expand...

ant555 said:
Geelong always had a set standard to live up to despite playing a bit more footy with flare. It is not just about playing a set plan. The Hawks where very much player driven despite the Clarkson game plan being the driving force. You only have to listen to Hodge talk to know it. Clarko gave them the plan and the leadership group drove it. Richmond is not as much about set plan as it is about pressure and keeping the ball moving and it is also been driven by their leaders playing the team game rather than doing their own thing. Sydney have been the same. I would even say the Eagles under Worsfold played a game where players where allowed to be creative but there was a team aspect to defense that worked because the players drove it.
Click to expand...


Ant is touching on it here but "enjoying your footy" and "having fun" is an end, it's not the means to any worthwhile end.

It is still something which the players will need to earn if it is to mean anything (sorry to sound life coachey).

In a practical sense, the players can enjoy themselves all they want but if the results are poor the "fun" will end pretty quickly.

Even more importantly, it's very hard to enjoy your footy if you're not competitive or not on a clear path toward being competitive. Losing sucks, and it's very hard to fake enough wins to be a good side.

So that means learning to enjoy hard work and discipline and the benefits that follow it. That is how I understand Rutten's call to being blue collar.

It's also why enjoyment can be a focus for a side like Collingwood, in the sense of loosening the reins. They were already there, a group of hardened pros who were struggling under plans that didn't work. It's much the same with Richmond. After qualifying for finals 3 years in a row they tried to play like Hawthorn and the bottom fell out, so they played to their strengths.

Playing with enjoyment without a genuine foundation looks something like us in the Knights era (or even 2017 to 2019). We might be able to con ourselves into the fun of some exhilarating front running footy but it's no fun when every other week the players got belted or couldn't get close to decent opposition (especially in finals).
 
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BrunoV said:
Ant is touching on it here but "enjoying your footy" and "having fun" is an end, it's not the means to any worthwhile end.

It is still something which the players will need to earn if it is to mean anything (sorry to sound life coachey).

In a practical sense, the players can enjoy themselves all they want but if the results are poor the "fun" will end pretty quickly.

Even more importantly, it's very hard to enjoy your footy if you're not competitive or not on a clear path toward being competitive. Loosing sucks, and it's very hard to fake enough wins to be a good side.

So that means learning to enjoy hard work and discipline and the benefits that follow it. That is how I understand Rutten's call to being blue collar.

That's why enjoyment can be a focus for a side like Collingwood, in the sense of loosening the reins. They were already there, a group of hardened pros who were struggling under plans that didn't work. It's much the same with Richmond. After qualifying for finals 3 years in a row they tried to play like Hawthorn and the bottom fell out, so they played to their strengths.

Playing with enjoyment without a genuine foundation looks something like us in the Knights era (or even 2017 to 2019). We might be able to con ourselves into the run of some exhilarating front running footy but it's no fun when every other week the players got belted or couldn't get close to decent opposition (especially in a finals).
Click to expand...
exactly! it’s like posting here- you can “enjoy” writing posts, but if you don’t get the likes, the enjoyment dries up very quickly.
 
I still remember being at a game we flogged the Saints in in 2002. Rioli didn't have the most of it, but absolutely everything he did was magic
 
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