Science/Environment Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster - fish from the pacific inedible

[Power Raid]

???

the graph did the rounds a while back. it is not radiation or anything else sinister.

the graph is the height of the tidal wave. anyone or any website passing it off as anything else is either ignorant, intentionally misleading or both.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Which graph are you talking about?

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Which graph are you talking about?

The one on which this entire thread is based. Surely you read the thread first, and didn't just mindlessly post something without checking if it was on topic?

 

[Smiling Buddha]

So only discussion on that graph in the OP is allowed in this thread?

Stop being churlish. If you want a new generic thread about Fukushima then start one and I'll post there.

Til then, this was the best available, champ

 

[Illinois Nazi]

So only discussion on that graph in the OP is allowed in this thread?

No, but the OP sets the topic for the thread. To come in after the thread's been dead a while and post something related but not the same and then to pretend you don't know what everyone is talking about just makes you look a bit of a ********.

And yes, a new thread would have been a better idea.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Hungover bro? You seem aggressive and irritable.

 

[Long Live HFC]

ITT: people have no ******* clue about radiation. jesus christ, thickos round every corner.

 

[Power Raid]

Which graph are you talking about?

The diagram showing the relation between variable quantities

 

[little graham]

The idea of freezing a section of soil, which was proposed for Fukushima last year, has previously been used to build tunnels near watercourses.

However, scientists point out that it has not been done on this scale before nor for the proposed length of time.

Coping with the huge - and growing - amount of water at the tsunami-damaged plant is proving to be one of the biggest challenges for TEPCO.

As well as all the water used to keep broken reactors cool, the utility must also deal with water that makes its way along subterranean watercourses from mountainsides to the sea.

Broken reactors? I think 3 meltdowns are slighty more than broken.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-02/japan-builds-fukushima-underground-ice-wall/5495358

Delaying the inevitable.

 

[Power Raid]

Broken reactors? I think 3 meltdowns are slighty more than broken.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-02/japan-builds-fukushima-underground-ice-wall/5495358

Delaying the inevitable.

it will be a massive engineering accomplishment. the only other place I have seen this done is cigar lake, which is a underground uranium mine under a lake. to stop the lake pouring in to the underground shafts, they have frozen the ground water between the lake and the mine.

 

[little graham]

it will be a massive engineering accomplishment. the only other place I have seen this done is cigar lake, which is a underground uranium mine under a lake. to stop the lake pouring in to the underground shafts, they have frozen the ground water between the lake and the mine.

Any idea of a realistic cost to this? maybe in 2 thousand years we have the technology to put those reactors out?

 

[Power Raid]

Any idea of a realistic cost to this? maybe in 2 thousand years we have the technology to put those reactors out?

no idea but I do know cigar lake is high capex but low opex

 

[Power Raid]

So only discussion on that graph in the OP is allowed in this thread?

Stop being churlish. If you want a new generic thread about Fukushima then start one and I'll post there.

Til then, this was the best available, champ

do you still stand by your link and the graph within that link?

 

[Smiling Buddha]

What do you mean 'stand by it'?

I posted that link and explicitly repeated its claim that 'TEPCO are releasing 100 tons of groundwater into the Pacific everyday'.

If you can prove that this is not accurate I will happily concede so and retract the claim.

The graph has nothing to do with it.

 

[Long Live HFC]

TEPCO releasing 100 tons of groundwater into the Pacific Ocean every day.

They say the water is 'untainted'. I don't see how this could be.

I thought three of the reactors had melted down and even TEPCO didn't know exactly where they were.

How do we know the groundwater has not been contaminated? The cores could be anywhere.

of course you don't.

Tepco, the Japan Atomic Energy Agency and independent groups found that radioactive elements in the released water have less than 1 becquerels per liter of Cesium-134 and Cesium-137. All other radioactive elements checked are also far below standards for groundwater release.

The legal limit for releasing Cesium-134 into the ocean is 60 becquerels per liter.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/21/us-japan-fukushima-water-idUSKBN0E109520140521

sure, claiming that the plant will be dumping 100 tonnes/day is more or less correct, and more or less irrelevant without further context.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

For once you actually prove useful. From the link you provided:

About 90 percent of Tepco workers defied orders and left the Fukushima Daiichi plant on March 15, 2011, after an explosion rocked the site, the Asahi reported on Tuesday, citing unreleased transcripts of interviews with the manager at the time, Masao Yoshida.

Yoshida, widely viewed as a national hero for taking decisive action in the critical days and weeks of the disaster that prevented a more serious crisis, died of cancer last year.

I did not know any of that. Staggering.

90% desertion rate, and the guy who stuck around to run the joint died of cancer.

I wonder how many Australians have any idea about this stuff? I didn't til just now.

 

[Long Live HFC]

For once you actually prove useful. From the link you provided:


I did not know any of that. Staggering.

90% desertion rate, and the guy who stuck around to run the joint died of cancer.

I wonder how many Australians have any idea about this stuff? I didn't til just now.

not surprising given the seriousness of the situation AND the japanese tendency towards honour/loyalty.

regardless, do you accept the fact that dumping 100 tonnes/day of groundwater into the ocean, by itself, is not cause for alarm unless other factors are included?

 

[Smiling Buddha]

not surprising given the seriousness of the situation AND the japanese tendency towards honour/loyalty.

I would have thought that would make them less likely to head for the hills.

In fact that is why I am so surprised by the 90% figure, I've always thought of Japanese as honourable people.

regardless, do you accept the fact that dumping 100 tonnes/day of groundwater into the ocean, by itself, is not cause for alarm unless other factors are included?

Yep, I agree with that.

Where you and I disagree is that you take TEPCO's claims about the water being safe on face value.

I am more skeptical, especially since the very article you cited points out that their major water treatment gizmo was shut down a few weeks ago.

 

[Long Live HFC]

I would have thought that would make them less likely to head for the hills.

In fact that is why I am so surprised by the 90% figure, I've always thought of Japanese as honourable people.

yeah you're right. i merely assumed he was at the pointy end of the corporate chain, but that assumption could be way off. good point.

Yep, I agree with that.

Where you and I disagree is that you take TEPCO's claims about the water being safe on face value.

I am more skeptical, especially since the very article you cited points out that their major water treatment gizmo was shut down a few weeks ago.

well, it did say "independent groups" were also involved in testing, and the local fisherman were satisfied with the dumping. at a guess i would posit that it wouldn't be too hard to take samples and prove tepco wrong if they really were dumping above legal standards?

 

[Power Raid]

What do you mean 'stand by it'?

I posted that link and explicitly repeated its claim that 'TEPCO are releasing 100 tons of groundwater into the Pacific everyday'.

If you can prove that this is not accurate I will happily concede so and retract the claim.

The graph has nothing to do with it.

pumping ground water into the sea is not an issue, it is the implied issue that it is highly dangerous and support for this danger is a grubby, false and misleading chart.

It is true that water is being pumped into the ocean:
http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/2013/japan-basic-policy-full.html
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Safety-and-Security/Safety-of-Plants/Fukushima-Accident/

but what is the impact:
http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/2014/seamonitoring030614.pdf
http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/2014/f1issues030614.pdf


my question to you is, what happens to the uranium and other associated radioactive decay elements from our un-mined ore deposits which naturally leach into our oceans, lakes, rivers and drinking water?

I am not suggesting Fukushima is a good thing or a thing that should be ignored. I am just suggesting that proper and responsible reporting is required rather than misleading and deceptive reports designed to wind up our most impressionable and gullible.

 

[Long Live HFC]

such a good, reasonable post.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

my question to you is, what happens to the uranium and other associated radioactive decay elements from our un-mined ore deposits which naturally leach into our oceans, lakes, rivers and drinking water?

Since it has been going on for millions of years I would imagine that the answer is 'nothing too serious'.

What does that have to do with potential leakage of radiation from enriched uranium?

I am not suggesting Fukushima is a good thing or a thing that should be ignored. I am just suggesting that proper and responsible reporting is required

Do you think we are getting that here in Australia?

 

[Power Raid]

Since it has been going on for millions of years I would imagine that the answer is 'nothing too serious'.

What does that have to do with potential leakage of radiation from enriched uranium?

Do you think we are getting that here in Australia?

1) the issue is the same

2) yes

 

[Long Live HFC]

uh oh. radiation finally makes its way to the new world. run for your lives!

Trace amounts of radiation from the 2011 Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan have been detected on North American shores for the first time...

Ken Buessler, the researcher who leads the Woods Hole monitoring program, said he expects more of the monitoring sites to show detectable levels of cesium-134 in coming months. However, the amounts of cesium-134 and cesium-137 in the B.C. sample were extremely low — just 1.4 and 5.8 becquerels per cubic metre of water respectively. Canada allows up to 10,000 becquerels of cesium-137 per cubic metre in drinking water...

"As an example, even if they were twice as high and I was to swim there every day for an entire year, the dose I would be exposed to is a thousand times less than a single dental X-ray. So the risk is never zero, but when I think of health risk, I always think of the Japanese side of the Pacific instead of ours".

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/technology/fukushima-radiation-measured-on-b-c-shore-for-1st-time-1.3022565

 

[little graham]

snake-shaped robot equipped with a camera gave officials the first look inside one of the reactors at Japan's crippled Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant on Friday.The plant suffered meltdowns in three of its reactors in March 2011 after a massive earthquake and tsunami hit Japan, killing more than 15,000 people.

The crippled reactors are inaccessible to humans because of deadly levels of radiation, so using the two-foot-long robot was the first chance officials were able to examine the damage caused by highly radioactive nuclear-fuel debris."We believe this will lead us to figuring out how to decommission the reactor," Ryo Shimizu, spokesman for plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO)

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/j...t-reactor-examined-snake-shaped-robot-n339091

4 years later and they don't know how to stop 3 meltdowns.