Generational Change

[kevind]

Is there a reason why we can't develop Fraser as a mostly permanent forward? I think he could be quite effective in the forward fifty, providing occasional relief for Wood, who is a superior ruckmen.

I also think such a change would be beneficial for Wood, who would do well with the confidence boost from stepping out of Fraser's shadow.

IMO, Josh Fraser will never be a forward. He is not good at taking contested marks, he is not quick on the lead and he is hardly likely to be a crumber. So how the hell is he going to get kicks?

His main strength is out running other ruckman and becoming a link man on the wings. Not the sort of stuff that produces good forwards.

 

[shawthing09]

IMO, Josh Fraser will never be a forward. He is not good at taking contested marks, he is not quick on the lead and he is hardly likely to be a crumber. So how the hell is he going to get kicks?

His main strength is out running other ruckman and becoming a link man on the wings. Not the sort of stuff that produces good forwards.

+ 1. He at times makes a difficult foward to match up on when we are stretching teams but would not make it as a permenant foward unless we were playing a team that was two top heavy.

At best a role like Cloke played on the weekend but then where does that leave Trav who is a stronger contested mark and hence more value as a target to kick too.

 

[Daicos Mullets]

Is there a reason why we can't develop Fraser as a mostly permanent forward? I think he could be quite effective in the forward fifty, providing occasional relief for Wood, who is a superior ruckmen.

I also think such a change would be beneficial for Wood, who would do well with the confidence boost from stepping out of Fraser's shadow.

He has little to no physical presence, rarely takes a contested mark & is not particularly quick on the lead. They're the basic reasons why not.

 

[Daicosian]

I think something that was raised by the spicey one on another thread is the way to go.


Use the finals, the top four finish and the fact that we were at one point flag favourites as a starting point to raise the bar.

Next year go the St Kilda method of designing KPI's kicking effiecency, defensive pressure, tackles etc etc etc anyone who doesn't meet them dropped regardless of who that is. Force players to pull the line consistantly and rotate players out until we are able to find a group who are willing to consistantly pull the line.

Obviously with such a young side the Kpi's should be altered for younger players to allow them to cement themselves into the side.

This would naturally see a rotation of players as young players who are not able to maintain AFL intensity consistantly would naturally rotate in and out of the side. Some sentimental senior players who are not pulling the line would end up on the outer and some struggling stars like Medhurst would be forced to go to the 2's to find form.

I like it, it's exactly the approach this club needs to take, the onus back on the players will sort out the julio's from the blue collar workers. All based on performing in 120 minutes of football once a week, which the whole club is judged on, it's only right that the players should meet those targets set to them, or be moved on. Being able to look your mates in the eye and know you've done your job brings great confidence and resolve, and with it will come a great football team. This is the kind of thing Bux has already touched on as a weakness at club level, and one i'm quite confident the great man will make a priority to eliminate to our past.

 

[Snag Breac]

Agree with most of the OP, TRS. I assume you think Marty will fly back to the arms of Dark Rosaleen? I don't, but we'll see.

And I'd rush in the tiny, turgid, terrific Blair asap.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The Clarke/Dyas situation remains murky, I certainly hope he stays because he's a ripper of a kid and very talented. He's obviously still got heaps to offer.

 

[Heater39]

I think something that was raised by the spicey one on another thread is the way to go.


Use the finals, the top four finish and the fact that we were at one point flag favourites as a starting point to raise the bar.

Next year go the St Kilda method of designing KPI's kicking effiecency, defensive pressure, tackles etc etc etc anyone who doesn't meet them dropped regardless of who that is. Force players to pull the line consistantly and rotate players out until we are able to find a group who are willing to consistantly pull the line.

Obviously with such a young side the Kpi's should be altered for younger players to allow them to cement themselves into the side.

This would naturally see a rotation of players as young players who are not able to maintain AFL intensity consistantly would naturally rotate in and out of the side. Some sentimental senior players who are not pulling the line would end up on the outer and some struggling stars like Medhurst would be forced to go to the 2's to find form.

One more thing we should be doing that the Saints did last summer- get all our players tanked up. There was just no way that Sidey, Beamer and McCarthy could be expected to compete with the likes of Goddard, Hayes, Ball etc. Just too much of a size difference.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The young mids tend to start "tanking up" in their third preseason, I've noticed. Usually their first is after a late start anyway, so they just try to survive it. Their second is when they do a full one and increase their aerobic capacity, and the third they start to really develop physically. Truth be told, it probably happens just before their third pre-season, because the running then slims them down again.

McCarthy is in this category, might see him fill out a bit before 2010 starts.

 

[shawthing09]

Yeh the bulking up thing will generally come with the maturity of players. As TRS has mentioned it's generally the third season where the players are fully hit hard with gym work over the preseason. First pre-season is very much a settling in adapting to the game plan etc sort of period. 2nd is fitness focussed and 3rd is when they get to the gym. This is obviously different for individual players. Sidebottom for example has great endurance anyway and may be introduced to the gym earlier then J-Mac who whilst drafted earlier is yet to do a proper pre-season and still needs a fair bit of work on his tank.

With the midfield we have there are a lot of players who should show at least some improvement as they get to an AFL standard of fitness and preperation. All of J-Mac, Sidebottom, Wellingham, Beams who have shown decent AFL promise still have a fair bit of improving to come from either increased size, fitness or a combination of the two.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Rocca will retire
Lockyer - piss off
Johnson - piss off
O'Bree - piss off
Toovey - piss off

McCarthy - back to the 2s

Bring in

Dick
Clarke
Goldsack
Rusling
Wood

Give Blair or Bennell a go.

 

[bigbunyip14]

we will take chris dawes off you guys, for buchannan. or a draft pick

 

[Coin_Toss]

we will take chris dawes off you guys, for buchannan. or a draft pick

Sorry, but Dawes ain't going nowhere unless the price is right.

 

[Old Spice]

we will take chris dawes off you guys, for buchannan. or a draft pick

Hmm, as much as i like 1 week old stras, I think we'll stick with our tender lamb. That's a no - bah - baw. Sorry compadre. Maybe for J White.

 

[Snag Breac]

The Clarke/Dyas situation remains murky, I certainly hope he stays because he's a ripper of a kid and very talented. He's obviously still got heaps to offer.

Yes, Clarke is potentially divine, but I must ask - why do Australian teams go to the bother, expense and risk of recruiting Gaelic players when there are so many talented aboriginal players who've been playing the game all their lives? Is it just for the sake of adding an international dimension to the game?

Also, there were probably several hundred posts on this that I didn't read, but why didn't we get Liam Jurrah in the end?

 

[shawthing09]

Yes, Clarke is potentially divine, but I must ask - why do Australian teams go to the bother, expense and risk of recruiting Gaelic players when there are so many talented aboriginal players who've been playing the game all their lives? Is it just for the sake of adding an international dimension to the game?

Also, there were probably several hundred posts on this that I didn't read, but why didn't we get Liam Jurrah in the end?

Aboriginal players playing in Australia have to enter the draft the same as any other player. Which means the ones who comes through the ranks are generally picked up where they should be Tambling etc.

There are remote parts of Australia which may be over looked but in general the time cost / potential reward factor is probably skewed in favour of the international market. As you can just go find a player sign them and make them yours with no need to enter the draft.

Opti's post on another thread made sense on the Jurrah issue which was he was deemed to much of a go home risk. Especially considering the fact that we have a lot of players who play that medium foward role.

 

[Stifler's mom]

as aIs there a reason why we can't develop Fraser mostly permanent forward? I think he could be quite effective in the forward fifty, providing occasional relief for Wood, who is a superior ruckmen.

I also think such a change would be beneficial for Wood, who would do well with the confidence boost from stepping out of Fraser's shadow.

How many times in the past 9 years have you seen him kick goals or even taken marks starting up forward?

 

[kevind]

to much of a go home risk[/B]. Especially considering the fact that we have a lot of players who play that medium foward role.

It's a lame excuse in my book. Players with that sort of talent are worth the risk. Jurrah could be absolutely anything. His skills are way above any of our forwards.

A smarter club would have talked Jurrah into nominating for the draft and nabbed him.

 

[Optimax]

It's a lame excuse in my book. Players with that sort of talent are worth the risk. Jurrah could be absolutely anything. His skills are way above any of our forwards.

A smarter club would have talked Jurrah into nominating for the draft and nabbed him.

we did everything but draft him
Was it a mistake not too yes, but its not like he said no to us and that i want to go to melbourne

 

[well left]

I think there is a need for generational change and I think it should be staggered over the next couple of seasons. We have two that I think need to be done at the end of the year in Rocca and O'Bree. Rocca for obvious reasons and O'Bree has had an indifferent 2nd half of the year and for someone called a 'spiritual leader' on the commentary on Sunday 12 disposals and 8 clangers in a final is not good enough. We were smashed in the midfield and he was shown up by St Kilda's IMO.

Sidebottom, Beams and Wellingham should be able to pick up the slack left by O'Bree's departure. Whether we can play all 3 is debatable but I think we can.

Rocca leaves a hole despite not being there all year. We have really disguised problems in our forward line all year but there was nowhere to hide on Sunday. We have one key forward that can take contested marks but can't kick goals and another who can kick goals but can't take contested marks or get enough of the ball. It's time to give Dawes a crack at the goalsquare or draft/trade accordingly. JA has been fantastic in kicking 48 goals and should improve further next year but I think he is a 3rd tall and needs one of Dawes or N Brown to play deep forward to assist.

Presti will go on next year and I think we need to blood Reid at CHB from pre-season next year. If N Brown goes forward then we need to be identify another backmen as Presti will probably only go one more year.

Lockyer is the other for mine that may struggle to hold his spot next year. A great warrior for the club but it is time our youngsters starting pushing him out of the side.

 

[bigbunyip14]

would you pies guys swap dawes for either Meredith, Schmidt or Thornton from swans

 

[well left]

would you pies guys swap dawes for either Meredith, Schmidt or Thornton from swans

Meredith is going to be a good little player I reckon and I'd like him on our list but Dawes is not up for trade..... would you like Rocca back?

 

[bigbunyip14]

no thankyou on rocca, he is your little gem

 

[kevind]

we did everything but draft him
Was it a mistake not too yes, but its not like he said no to us and that i want to go to melbourne

If he had of said 'no' to us and that he wanted to go to Melbourne, I wouldn't have a problem. What irks me is that on the surface(I admit I don't know the full story) it appears we did the usual Collingwood thing and not put the work into convincing him to nominate for the draft. This sort of thing has been happening at Collingwood for too many years.

 

[Optimax]

If he had of said 'no' to us and that he wanted to go to Melbourne, I wouldn't have a problem. What irks me is that on the surface(I admit I don't know the full story) it appears we did the usual Collingwood thing and not put the work into convincing him to nominate for the draft. This sort of thing has been happening at Collingwood for too many years.

Quite the opposite

We had him ready to commit to the draft, we had done back round work everything. He didnt nominate first up as we told him we wouldnt draft him, due to concerns over go home factor etc

 

[bucksisbest]

Quite the opposite

We had him ready to commit to the draft, we had done back round work everything. He didnt nominate first up as we told him we wouldnt draft him, due to concerns over go home factor etc

It wasn't the go home factor , it was because key personnel didn't think he was good enough. One club legend said in a meeting with a member of the Industrial Magpies , that Jurrah was not good enough for VFL football.