Opinion Get Clarko to The Hangar - 5 year deal done says Heppellfreak (post #334) - now with poll

[owen87]

Still waiting for examples . Clarko showed it in his first few years.

3 years should be enough time to pin point some great match day examples of good coaching. Get specific.

Clarko - using nic Nat ruck work and contested ball structured to smash the Irish in international rules

McRae - late game coaching training

These are examples of great coaching with new groups

Rutten? (Silence is deafening)

Rutten and Caracella were a key component of developing Richmond’s ball movement. That’s a long-term investment in sustainable, finals level football.

Do you want a coach that spins the magnets madly on match day instead of implementing an actual system first?

You’re using examples of steps D, E and F whilst we’ve got a list still stuck on steps A and B. It’s pretty clear we lack a sufficient number of players to execute the style of plan Caracella and Rutten are trying to implement.

As has been said before, Clarkson changed and modified his A and B a myriad of times before the playing group got it down. And that was a playing group laden with exceptional talent and an all-time great on-field leader in Hodge.

It’s as though people have no concept how inexperienced the playing group we roll out each week is. Maybe Rutten isn’t the right coach, but Clarkson hardly set the world on fire with his work with an inexperienced Hawthorn group the last couple of years either.

 

[JayJ20]

Ok.

And?

We go through 2023, go 8-14.

Do we sack him?

I believe he is the right person from what he's shown, but if we start 2-8 again, then I think the club can look for other options for 2024. I like how Rutten develops the younger players and I also like that he isn't afraid to make the hard decisions. I don't doubt his ability to build a gameplan that stands up in finals, but my biggest concern with him at the moment is his ability to address our needs from a list perspective. I know list managers do that, but the coach does have a say in it.

One thing that stuck with me after the EF vs Bulldogs was the disconnect between his analysis of that game and the shape of the list. We obviously got thrashed in contested possessions and he recognised that as an area of improvement, but his solution wasn't really addressing the problems he himself identified. His solution was internal development, which means he was banking on Stringer maintaining his form, an inexperienced Caldwell suddenly becoming a contested beast and Parish obviously maintaining his form. That's what an inexperienced and ambitious coach would say and I hope he learned from that going forward. The outcome of that is very clear given that the list is fundamentally flawed so hopefully he realises that internal development is not sufficient. That's not something to sack a second year coach for so I think we can look passed it for now.

If this off-season is going to be the same and we start the year like this year, then we can be comfortable and confident that we need someone better. At this stage, my concerns aren't too big. He clearly can identify issues and does the other things that I mentioned well which is a good start. People will look to the start of next year, I will look to the off-season to see what type of side he wants to build.

 

[justlookingaround]

McRae - late game coaching training

Not having a crack at McRae but literally every team has a gameplan that they train for late game scenarios - 2 mins left up by a kick, 2 mins left down by a kick etc.

 

[JayJ20]

Still waiting for examples . Clarko showed it in his first few years.

3 years should be enough time to pin point some great match day examples of good coaching. Get specific.

Clarko - using nic Nat ruck work and contested ball structured to smash the Irish in international rules

McRae - late game coaching training

These are examples of great coaching with new groups

Rutten? (Silence is deafening)

Rutten - getting an inexperienced side with a makeshift forwardline and half a midfield to finals in his first year despite the side having to almost travel like an interstate side while other Victorian sides got to play only 5 or 6 interstate games.

 

[ghostdog]

SEN's all over Clarko to North. The suspense is killing me! The melts are going to be immense. It'll probably be Heppellfreak's fault.

5 years at North on the table. Melts incoming.
Cue: "F*** this club. They've blown their chance again."
"If only we'd signed Clarko"
"I don't know why I bother." etc. etc. ad nauseum

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Clarko 5 years at North..

What are the odds they'll win a final before us?

How long till they overtake us? 2years?

Please god no.

 

[dank420_]

We need some kind of e-chill pill for this board

 

[nipst@r]

Rutten - getting an inexperienced side with a makeshift forwardline and half a midfield to finals in his first year despite the side having to almost travel like an interstate side while other Victorian sides got to play only 5 or 6 interstate games.

Specific match day examples and move/plan was the question? A finals loss weird pass mark. 3 years in

 

[nipst@r]

Not having a crack at McRae but literally every team has a gameplan that they train for late game scenarios - 2 mins left up by a kick, 2 mins left down by a kick etc.

We didn't

 

[nipst@r]

Rutten and Caracella were a key component of developing Richmond’s ball movement. That’s a long-term investment in sustainable, finals level football.

Do you want a coach that spins the magnets madly on match day instead of implementing an actual system first?

You’re using examples of steps D, E and F whilst we’ve got a list still stuck on steps A and B. It’s pretty clear we lack a sufficient number of players to execute the style of plan Caracella and Rutten are trying to implement.

As has been said before, Clarkson changed and modified his A and B a myriad of times before the playing group got it down. And that was a playing group laden with exceptional talent and an all-time great on-field leader in Hodge.

It’s as though people have no concept how inexperienced the playing group we roll out each week is. Maybe Rutten isn’t the right coach, but Clarkson hardly set the world on fire with his work with an inexperienced Hawthorn group the last couple of years either.

Clarkos cluster. Highly skilled left footers. The blocking bruest, popolo did for buddy/rough head.

Hawthorn were still doing okay last couple of years of clarko.

 

[TheGrizz]

Ok.

And?

We go through 2023, go 8-14.

Do we sack him?

I dont know, really.

Like, does anyone actually think we have a list that is capable of winning a final?
I genuinely don't think we are, I think last year was a unique mix of a soft draw and a once in 10 year event where 11 wins gets you in.

So a hard and fast win total doesn't seem right to me. We don't have the cattle to be a serious finals contender, and would need absolutely everything to break right (fixture, injuries, form etc) to be in the mix. I dont think that is fair to pin on a coach's livelihood.

The bigger question is how are we playing? As in

• is there a game plan that we can see being implemented that is continually being worked on
• have we eliminated the absolute dog***t efforts like we have in games vs Geelong/Sydney/Fremantle/GWS out of our game
• are players (particularly young players) developing before our eyes
• are we more competitive week to week as the above takes place

All that is a far greater indicator than games won, with our list at least (which is no where near premiership level). If the above is all positive and we go 8-14, i think you can make an argument either way.

An arbitrary win total seems silly to me.

 

[nipst@r]

Rutten and Caracella were a key component of developing Richmond’s ball movement. That’s a long-term investment in sustainable, finals level football.

Do you want a coach that spins the magnets madly on match day instead of implementing an actual system first?

You’re using examples of steps D, E and F whilst we’ve got a list still stuck on steps A and B. It’s pretty clear we lack a sufficient number of players to execute the style of plan Caracella and Rutten are trying to implement.

As has been said before, Clarkson changed and modified his A and B a myriad of times before the playing group got it down. And that was a playing group laden with exceptional talent and an all-time great on-field leader in Hodge.

It’s as though people have no concept how inexperienced the playing group we roll out each week is. Maybe Rutten isn’t the right coach, but Clarkson hardly set the world on fire with his work with an inexperienced Hawthorn group the last couple of years either.

I'm asking for any specifics match day examples.

The best I have is moving Caldwell into defensive mid role, which was working really well.

Pretty annoying continuing to play mid of Merrett, parish, McGrath when it doesn't work. So that slight adjustment with Caldwell has worked.

 

[DapperDon]

I'm asking for any specifics match day examples.

The best I have is moving Caldwell into defensive mid role, which was working really well.

Pretty annoying continuing to play mid of Merrett, parish, McGrath when it doesn't work. So that slight adjustment with Caldwell has worked.

If we got Clarko next year, what would he do differently?

I need examples

 

[DapperDon]

Clarkos cluster. Highly skilled left footers. The blocking bruest, popolo did for buddy/rough head.

Hawthorn were still doing okay last couple of years of clarko.

Clarkpo got Bruest 4 years into his tenure
Got Puopolo 5 years into his tenure

What a magician he was using them 3 years before they got drafted.

 

[nipst@r]

Clarkpo got Bruest 4 years into his tenure
Got Puopolo 5 years into his tenure

What a magician he was using them 3 years before they got drafted.

Yes still no specific examples for Rutten.

Is that not a worry?

What about ruttens Matchday coaching and planning do you like? (Please point to a game, style)

.......... I'll wait

 

[JayJ20]

Specific match day examples and move/plan was the question? A finals loss weird pass mark. 3 years in

First of all, it is his second year. Second of all, you know this is actually very easy? Did Rutten not employ Caldwell as a tagger who nullified Neale? It's the whole reason why we beat Brisbane. He did the same thing on Touk Miller who was in form up until that point. Smashed Gold Coast for the first 3 quarters before the tag was eased in the last when the game was won.

 

[nipst@r]

If we got Clarko next year, what would he do differently?

I need examples

I'm not alistair Clarkson so I don't know exactly what would implement but I'll give it a crack

I don't think he would let Ridley (have next to no influence over games). Get him involved if we're losing and he is not involved.

Try Harrison Jones at chb if hasn't had a kick for 3.5 quarters (like Bulldogs did with Naughton who is currently twice player Jones is)

Sort out what to do with McGrath, parish, Merrett when all available. Potentially Merrett FF to break tags or have a team plan when Merrett gets heavily tagged. McGrath to back pocket if the mid group is not working and no run.

(Red dog burst in the guts) swing Ridley, laverde fwd if we need to score to win. A coach should know which of these has more chance of success.

I would suggest a defensive structure from kick out and redtime. I don't think clarko would demonstrated something different as what we currently do doesn't work.

So there some of things I'd expect from Clarkson or any senior coach really. I'd expect a coach to actually come up with ideas 100 X better than this. But happy if Rutten can solve any of the above.

 

[nipst@r]

First of all, it is his second year. Second of all, you know this is actually very easy? Did Rutten not employ Caldwell as a tagger who nullified Neale? It's the whole reason why we beat Brisbane. He did the same thing on Touk Miller who was in form up until that point. Smashed Gold Coast for the first 3 quarters before the tag was eased in the last when the game was won.

I had to provide the example for you. I gave rutten credit for that 1 move. I like that move. Season done but it has worked, we got a win or two. I thought Rutten was match day coach in Worsfold last year. So I counted that. Providing a extra year should actually mean you have a extra year to find some examples. Haha.

 

[ant555]

We didn't

We do. A couple of blokes ****ed it up.

 

[nipst@r]

First of all, it is his second year. Second of all, you know this is actually very easy? Did Rutten not employ Caldwell as a tagger who nullified Neale? It's the whole reason why we beat Brisbane. He did the same thing on Touk Miller who was in form up until that point. Smashed Gold Coast for the first 3 quarters before the tag was eased in the last when the game was won.

I also provided that one example 35 pages in.
It's shouldn't be that hard yet no one else has anything specific.

The blind faith is staggering. The season is dead but hoping the next two games I'll have a well coached or that was a great plan/move by Rutten and coaching group today.

I do like a potential Heppel, hurley farewell game to keep rich out finals.

Who cares about port. Plan and coach the hell out of that game.

 

[nipst@r]

We do. A couple of blokes *ed it up.

Every week it's a issue though. It wasn't like oh it fell down this one time. Happens most weeks that's a coach or message issue.

 

[JayJ20]

I had to provide the example for you. I gave rotten credit for that 1 move. I thought Rutten was match day coach in Worsfold last year. So I counted that. Providing a extra year should actually mean you have a extra year to find some examples. Haha.

Why are you focusing on a single move and not the whole side? Thrashed vs Collingwood in the first quarter and dominated the next two quarter because of how we stopped allowing Collingwood easy transition. Collingwood are a good side so they hit back in the last quarter.

Bad in the first quarter vs Sydney, dominated the next quarter and won the game.

Changed how we played in the last quarter vs Hawthorn and that got us the win.

Changed our set up vs Port in the first game after struggling to adjust to the weather and nearly beat them after adjusting.

Our centre square setup vs Bulldogs last year is the single biggest reason why we won the game (and played finals). Completely thrashed one of the best midfields in the competition because of how Stringer was used. We needed to win that and we did.

A bad match day coach cannot turn games around.

 

[ant555]

I'm not alistair Clarkson so I don't know exactly what would implement but I'll give it a crack

I don't think he would let Ridley (have next to no influence over games). Get him involved if we're losing and he is not involved.

Try Harrison Jones at chb if hasn't had a kick for 3.5 quarters (like Bulldogs did with Naughton who is currently twice player Jones is)

Sort out what to do with McGrath, parish, Merrett when all available. Potentially Merrett FF to break tags or have a team plan when Merrett gets heavily tagged. McGrath to back pocket if the mid is now working and no run.

I would suggest a defensive structure from kick out and redtime. I don't think clarko would demonstrated something different as what we currently do doesn't work.

So there some of things I'd expect from Clarkson or any senior coach really. I'd expect a coach to actually come up with ideas 100 X better than this. But happy if Rutten can solve any of the above.

So you would prefer a defender to have limited defending and just zone off rather than actually defending?
What he has done with Ridley is 100% what was needed. He had to start playing accountable footy and doing his part as a defender.
He has also moved McGrath to defence.
It was also easy to tag Merrett last week because we only had two experienced midfielders in the side.
He will have more flexibility this week.

 

[Nicholas61]

Clarkos cluster. Highly skilled left footers. The blocking bruest, popolo did for buddy/rough head.

Hawthorn were still doing okay last couple of years of clarko.

When Worsfold was at the Eagles he said Clarkson was the hardest guy to coach against - would switch things up for a period and throw opposition plans into chaos. His speech to the players befre the 08 GF when they were outsiders was brilliant. He is a legendary coach.

 

[dank420_]

The blind faith is staggering