Rumour GFC 2017 Player Trading, Drafting, FA, Rumours, and Wish lists.

[The rabbi]

It does not specifically concern Geelong but in the broader sense it does.

 

[dazbroncos]

Trading picks only with limitations.

No trading of players on the day of - either current or draftees.

GO Catters

 

[Ray Donovan]

The fact Smith brought a house in Geelong this year is a tasty piece to help fuel that link with him coming as well

I wonder who we would trade for him as we have n

If it improves the team, and critically, helps them win a premiership, it's absolutely worth it. If not, it'll make for interesting and amusing times.

Devon smith is worth a first rounder he possibly even a pick 8-10. A straight swap for motlop would be ideal. Although I assume 2nd rd pick exchanges or extra picks or players would need to be involved. Win win for both clubs as motlop was on the block all trade period no real interest and he would be good at gws on the outside

 

[Ray Donovan]

I wish we could find one of these.
View attachment 323735View attachment 323736View attachment 323737View attachment 323738View attachment 323739

At least we have one I remember having to watch Kent Kingsley at FF. Lol bomber

 

[Ray Donovan]

D. Smith is quality. Don't give a shit if we give up another 1st rounder for him.
We'll get Gaz if he doesn't retire. Dunno how but we will.
GFC makes trade week interesting when is usually boring as balls.

Dangerfield, ablett, Selwood one square rotating at half forward. If only we had something to trade if we coulda got gaz and convinced Boris to play one more maybe a huge tilt alas the dream

 

[Ray Donovan]

It does not specifically concern Geelong but in the broader sense it does.

Its coming in for sure we follow american sport to the T free agency, future picks all this stuff common place in NBA and NFL. Trade players for picks sometimes a team will select a player and then instantly trade him its funny. Kobe Bryant was a hornet lol immediately traded to the Lakers.

It will add on extra element to getting trades right lol

 

[Turbocat]

Trading picks only with limitations.

No trading of players on the day of - either current or draftees.

GO Catters

You may have answered this for me but whats the logic for picks only? Id have thought that a picks only trade would reduce the amount of transaction substantially.

 

[Turbocat]

Its coming in for sure we follow american sport to the T free agency, future picks all this stuff common place in NBA and NFL. Trade players for picks sometimes a team will select a player and then instantly trade him its funny. Kobe Bryant was a hornet lol immediately traded to the Lakers.

It will add on extra element to getting trades right lol

Id doubt we are ready to see freshly traded kids wearing a Cats jumper one minute and a Hawk jumper the next.
It would seem its more likely to trade futures for currents , perhaps a player you rated as top 3 is still there at 10 ...would you trade next year R1 for a P10 type deal.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I wonder who we would trade for him as we have n


Devon smith is worth a first rounder he possibly even a pick 8-10. A straight swap for motlop would be ideal. Although I assume 2nd rd pick exchanges or extra picks or players would need to be involved. Win win for both clubs as motlop was on the block all trade period no real interest and he would be good at gws on the outside

Gws will be desperate for draft points due to whitfield penalty they wont care for the pick numbers if its enough points. They will take 2 2nd rounders or even an early 2nd + early 3rd if needs be as the points would be equivalent to a top 15 pick anyway.

Gws will also be hard up for cap space and they wont be able to afford motlop. If he goes it wont be there.

 

[dazbroncos]

You may have answered this for me but whats the logic for picks only? Id have thought that a picks only trade would reduce the amount of transaction substantially.

Currently players have to consent to a trade. Keeping it to picks only limits the currency available, and the downside risk. Losing picks and players on a rush of blood is too much IMO.

Bit it also makes the event a bit more exciting. Also, a club that wants back into say Rd1, can on the day package a deal to do it and get their man.

Go Catters

 

[Ray Donovan]

Gws will be desperate for draft points due to whitfield penalty they wont care for the pick numbers if its enough points. They will take 2 2nd rounders or even an early 2nd + early 3rd if needs be as the points would be equivalent to a top 15 pick anyway.

Gws will also be hard up for cap space and they wont be able to afford motlop. If he goes it wont be there.

Devon smith would be on similar cash to motlop. These are fantasy trades for starters Devon smith ain't coming to Geelong next year. FANTASY TRADES

We have nothing to trade except players as he is worth a first round guaranteed. We have a first rounder we can't trade we can't trade future firsts our salary cap is maxed as well.

So settle right down they were docked 1000 points which is equivalent to pick 17. So no one is desperate at all with the amount of picks GWS has had recently losing pick 17 means nothing.

Details
Giants were slapped with a $100,000 fine and the loss of 1000 draft points for their role in the long-running Whitfield saga.

The docked draft points is the equivalent of about pick 17.

They are not giving up one of their best young small forwards for two second rounders to reclaim pick 17. Devon smith is going nowhere he will stay at gws.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Id doubt we are ready to see freshly traded kids wearing a Cats jumper one minute and a Hawk jumper the next.
It would seem its more likely to trade futures for currents , perhaps a player you rated as top 3 is still there at 10 ...would you trade next year R1 for a P10 type deal.

As I stated it happens in NBA a global sporting market. Our sport is a spec compared to NBA and NFL if it happens in an enormous market it can definately happen in AFL.There drafts are a specticle with millions of viewers and interest exactly they kind of interest the afl would like to build in draft

What difference would it make in Geelong jumper then traded to Hawthorn absolutely none its the deal a club would make. And its not like that anyway they just announce the whole deal and say what has happened. What players and picks were exchanged

I.E Hawthorn selects (player x ) at pick 5
Geelong trades Steven motlop to hawthorn for player X. Or what ever scenario.

Teams will be allocated extra time to do deals.

It creates more interested around draft. Would open up player movement even further.

Futures for currents when our system only allows trading 1 year into the future doesn't fit this model. In the NBA you can trade up to 5 years in future. If you could extend the time frame it could be possible. Doesn't work with 2-4 rule doesn't give clubs value to trade especially when pick numbers are undetermined for next season without positioning.

 

[Turbocat]

Devon smith would be on similar cash to motlop. These are fantasy trades for starters Devon smith ain't coming to Geelong next year. FANTASY TRADES

We have nothing to trade except players as he is worth a first round guaranteed. We have a first rounder we can't trade we can't trade future firsts our salary cap is maxed as well.

So settle right down they were docked 1000 points which is equivalent to pick 17. So no one is desperate at all with the amount of picks GWS has had recently losing pick 17 means nothing.

Details
Giants were slapped with a $100,000 fine and the loss of 1000 draft points for their role in the long-running Whitfield saga.

The docked draft points is the equivalent of about pick 17.

They are not giving up one of their best young small forwards for two second rounders to reclaim pick 17. Devon smith is going nowhere he will stay at gws.

Ray , are you familiar with the talent coming thru their Academy? I know of Brander but I'm sure there are more. They have accessed elite talent and have more coming thru and I doubt they will be happy to miss on that talent.

History say they are proactive in trades. History say if Smith wants out they will trade him as long as they get their pound of flesh. The rules are changing all the time so its difficult keeping up with it , how many players they can access ,how many picks they can use to access those players .. but in general it wouldn't surprise me if a deal like Pure's was considered

 

[Turbocat]

As I stated it happens in NBA a global sporting market. Our sport is a spec compared to NBA and NFL if it happens in an enormous market it can definately happen in AFL.There drafts are a specticle with millions of viewers and interest exactly they kind of interest the afl would like to build in draft

What difference would it make in Geelong jumper then traded to Hawthorn absolutely none its the deal a club would make. And its not like that anyway they just announce the whole deal and say what has happened. What players and picks were exchanged

I.E Hawthorn selects (player x ) at pick 5
Geelong trades Steven motlop to hawthorn for player X. Or what ever scenario.

Teams will be allocated extra time to do deals.

It creates more interested around draft. Would open up player movement even further.

Futures for currents when our system only allows trading 1 year into the future doesn't fit this model. In the NBA you can trade up to 5 years in future. If you could extend the time frame it could be possible. Doesn't work with 2-4 rule doesn't give clubs value to trade especially when pick numbers are undetermined for next season without positioning.

The cultures are quite different. Privately owned franchises compared to communal membership based entities that make up our comp. Obviously there are similarities but there would be more than a few differences. The age of the drafted players for one. Plenty say that the concept of the draft is too disruptive for kids of their age , I doubt the cattleyard appearance of this type of trade would sit well with all.

Players in system may eventually have to relinquish their right to veto a trade , and if and when they do we could head down this but till then , and certainly for a start , the picks only would be a good initial approach even if it means less activity.

 

[dazbroncos]

I think, IMO, the AFL will go baby steps on the draft pick trading options. Bringing the extra variable of player movement into as well as the trading of picks makes for some complicated negotiations.

The NFL, which seems to be a close model for the AFL, does not allow trades of draftees post their selection. They do allow trading of that pick position once the pick goes live.

Eg GWS has pick 4. They go on the clock. GFC has pick 8 and 20. GFC want player X still on board. GWS goes to take player X but GFC calls. Offers pick 8 and 20 for 4. GWS gets calls from Richmond who offer 7 and 45. GWS has to decide by the time allocated to them to take the deal from GFC, Rich, or make selection. If they take selection, carry on as per normal. If they take GFC or Rich offers, clock resets to 2 mins regardless of Round to allow new team to submit pick. Chances are they know whom they want and the 2 mins is more to allow the pick to be processed rather than decided.

The concept, if adopted, works well with the trading of future picks. It also creates a market where the value of the current year picks is the premium and the subsequent years picks are of lesser value - meaning a Rd 1 2017 is worth more than a Rd1 2018 - often because the live pick is now and the future value is unknown. This however would require the AFL to be very clear, concise and consistent with the rulings on the limits of trading future picks - not their strong suit.

The NFL does not allow, in this example, GWS to select with pick 4 and then trade the player to GFC or Rich.


GO Catters

 

[Turbocat]

Just listened to an interview on SEN... its up on the website https://www.sen.com.au/audio/

It was a rep Ben Darwin from http://www.gainline.biz/about/ ... and he was talking clubs that buy , clubs that create , about how the house was more important than the individual components in building a successful sporting club list. He touched on a few raw nerves for me that have had discussion on this site... building from within or bringing players from outside .... the dangerous part of bringing in players from outside is negative affect they can have on your current players and that the actual players standard when recruited is not as important the system he goes into. All sounds a bit familiar. I will say that he made no mention of time and cost of being out of contention etc

 

[Ray Donovan]

The cultures are quite different. Privately owned franchises compared to communal membership based entities that make up our comp. Obviously there are similarities but there would be more than a few differences. The age of the drafted players for one. Plenty say that the concept of the draft is too disruptive for kids of their age , I doubt the cattleyard appearance of this type of trade would sit well with all.

Players in system may eventually have to relinquish their right to veto a trade , and if and when they do we could head down this but till then , and certainly for a start , the picks only would be a good initial approach even if it means less activity.

Doesn't make any difference if the franchises are privately owned its still run by a league just like afl governed by rules. Clubs operate independently from the AFL in terms of how they run their own operation.

The age of drafted players you have completely wrong as they usually go to college and play in the 2nd biggest competition other than NBA or NFL so the drafting age is minimum 19 the best will come early and others will stay in college to 22 then go pro. Our draft age is much younger 18 out of highschool we also have pre selected 17 year olds go. as we don't have a professional level junior program. The cattleyard you are talking about is just pure size of the sport that's why so much pressure is on players because of the amount of exposure they have they will get a 100 thousand to college games. We get that to a grand final . We will never get to that level because we will never have a global game.

Players have to accept a trade now which would work as it usually does. And the clubs would have physicals you need to pass or trades are vetoed.

The AFL will start small but within 3 years you will be able to trade players in draft.

You look at the 12-6 model they want to bring in that is absolute crap. And is set up just like a division in NFL or NBA.

It is coming though its in the works so get ready for the cattleyard I love the idea even if it will take time for others to adjust. It puts more power into the hands of good management and crushes poor management. I have watched NBA and NFL for a decade though this is seems extremely normal and basic rule changes to me.

When you see trades 4-5 years into the future and exhanging 6-8 players over three teams. Or teams giving away 3 future top5 picks to get one franchise player it gets interesting. We will never get to that but change is definitely coming

 

[Ray Donovan]

Ray , are you familiar with the talent coming thru their Academy? I know of Brander but I'm sure there are more. They have accessed elite talent and have more coming thru and I doubt they will be happy to miss on that talent.

History say they are proactive in trades. History say if Smith wants out they will trade him as long as they get their pound of flesh. The rules are changing all the time so its difficult keeping up with it , how many players they can access ,how many picks they can use to access those players .. but in general it wouldn't surprise me if a deal like Pure's was considered

Really turbo cat so if they are proactive like you say they can trade him anywhere back into Melbourne and actually get a first and second rounder for him off various clubs who would snap him up. Why would they trade chips for a contracted just so they can get a 1000 draft points of us. When we cannot accommodate the requirements for a player like this.

There is a whole list of players and talent on the GWS roster they are always doing deals to minimise list size. More first round picks or academy selections than nearly any side ever. And apparently the world will fall down for them over a late first round selection. When they are a equal premiership favourite?

 

[Ray Donovan]

I think, IMO, the AFL will go baby steps on the draft pick trading options. Bringing the extra variable of player movement into as well as the trading of picks makes for some complicated negotiations.

The NFL, which seems to be a close model for the AFL, does not allow trades of draftees post their selection. They do allow trading of that pick position once the pick goes live.

Eg GWS has pick 4. They go on the clock. GFC has pick 8 and 20. GFC want player X still on board. GWS goes to take player X but GFC calls. Offers pick 8 and 20 for 4. GWS gets calls from Richmond who offer 7 and 45. GWS has to decide by the time allocated to them to take the deal from GFC, Rich, or make selection. If they take selection, carry on as per normal. If they take GFC or Rich offers, clock resets to 2 mins regardless of Round to allow new team to submit pick. Chances are they know whom they want and the 2 mins is more to allow the pick to be processed rather than decided.

The concept, if adopted, works well with the trading of future picks. It also creates a market where the value of the current year picks is the premium and the subsequent years picks are of lesser value - meaning a Rd 1 2017 is worth more than a Rd1 2018 - often because the live pick is now and the future value is unknown. This however would require the AFL to be very clear, concise and consistent with the rulings on the limits of trading future picks - not their strong suit.

The NFL does not allow, in this example, GWS to select with pick 4 and then trade the player to GFC or Rich.


GO Catters

I think, IMO, the AFL will go baby steps on the draft pick trading options. Bringing the extra variable of player movement into as well as the trading of picks makes for some complicated negotiations.

The NFL, which seems to be a close model for the AFL, does not allow trades of draftees post their selection. They do allow trading of that pick position once the pick goes live.

Eg GWS has pick 4. They go on the clock. GFC has pick 8 and 20. GFC want player X still on board. GWS goes to take player X but GFC calls. Offers pick 8 and 20 for 4. GWS gets calls from Richmond who offer 7 and 45. GWS has to decide by the time allocated to them to take the deal from GFC, Rich, or make selection. If they take selection, carry on as per normal. If they take GFC or Rich offers, clock resets to 2 mins regardless of Round to allow new team to submit pick. Chances are they know whom they want and the 2 mins is more to allow the pick to be processed rather than decided.

The concept, if adopted, works well with the trading of future picks. It also creates a market where the value of the current year picks is the premium and the subsequent years picks are of lesser value - meaning a Rd 1 2017 is worth more than a Rd1 2018 - often because the live pick is now and the future value is unknown. This however would require the AFL to be very clear, concise and consistent with the rulings on the limits of trading future picks - not their strong suit.

The NFL does not allow, in this example, GWS to select with pick 4 and then trade the player to GFC or Rich.


GO Catters

NFL rules draft / trading

Teams may negotiate trades at any time before and during the draft and can swap draft picks or current NFL players to whom they hold the rights.

In NBA it can be done
In NFL the only difference is the team calls and offers player Motlop
Other teams excepts trades pick 5

 

[dazbroncos]

NFL rules draft / trading

Teams may negotiate trades at any time before and during the draft and can swap draft picks or current NFL players to whom they hold the rights.

In NBA it can be done
In NFL the only difference is the team calls and offers player Motlop
Other teams excepts trades pick 5

Correct - NFL trades players on draft day - currently not an option in AFL as players can veto trade. I left this out due to this exact point as for AFL currently its not relevant.

GO Catters

 

[THE CAT WRANGLER]

Just listened to an interview on SEN... its up on the website https://www.sen.com.au/audio/

It was a rep Ben Darwin from http://www.gainline.biz/about/ ... and he was talking clubs that buy , clubs that create , about how the house was more important than the individual components in building a successful sporting club list. He touched on a few raw nerves for me that have had discussion on this site... building from within or bringing players from outside .... the dangerous part of bringing in players from outside is negative affect they can have on your current players and that the actual players standard when recruited is not as important the system he goes into. All sounds a bit familiar. I will say that he made no mention of time and cost of being out of contention etc

Hasn't hurt Hawks or Sydney !

 

[Ray Donovan]

Correct - NFL trades players on draft day - currently not an option in AFL as players can veto trade. I left this out due to this exact point as for AFL currently its not relevant.

GO Catters

Seems to be very relevant if the question is if we can trade players as well as picks. Maybe not next year but it all leads to one direction if we take this route.

I'm under the assumption though that if that a player were to accept the trade. And willing to leave

The whole goal of this system is so you could instantly trade players just picked of move players. They will start small
Yes but

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...t/news-story/723b61d8b2196421b982a2176a979d81

 

[Ray Donovan]

The cultures are quite different. Privately owned franchises compared to communal membership based entities that make up our comp. Obviously there are similarities but there would be more than a few differences. The age of the drafted players for one. Plenty say that the concept of the draft is too disruptive for kids of their age , I doubt the cattleyard appearance of this type of trade would sit well with all.

Players in system may eventually have to relinquish their right to veto a trade , and if and when they do we could head down this but till then , and certainly for a start , the picks only would be a good initial approach even if it means less activity.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...t/news-story/723b61d8b2196421b982a2176a979d81

That article clearly explains the future goal

 

[Ray Donovan]

I think, IMO, the AFL will go baby steps on the draft pick trading options. Bringing the extra variable of player movement into as well as the trading of picks makes for some complicated negotiations.

The NFL, which seems to be a close model for the AFL, does not allow trades of draftees post their selection. They do allow trading of that pick position once the pick goes live.

Eg GWS has pick 4. They go on the clock. GFC has pick 8 and 20. GFC want player X still on board. GWS goes to take player X but GFC calls. Offers pick 8 and 20 for 4. GWS gets calls from Richmond who offer 7 and 45. GWS has to decide by the time allocated to them to take the deal from GFC, Rich, or make selection. If they take selection, carry on as per normal. If they take GFC or Rich offers, clock resets to 2 mins regardless of Round to allow new team to submit pick. Chances are they know whom they want and the 2 mins is more to allow the pick to be processed rather than decided.

The concept, if adopted, works well with the trading of future picks. It also creates a market where the value of the current year picks is the premium and the subsequent years picks are of lesser value - meaning a Rd 1 2017 is worth more than a Rd1 2018 - often because the live pick is now and the future value is unknown. This however would require the AFL to be very clear, concise and consistent with the rulings on the limits of trading future picks - not their strong suit.

The NFL does not allow, in this example, GWS to select with pick 4 and then trade the player to GFC or Rich.


GO Catters

Jo Ralph herald sun article in case you don't have herald sun access

The AFL will allow the live trading of draft picks within the national draft by next season, according to leading recruiter Scott Clayton.



The dramatic overhaul of the draft would allow clubs to effectively move up the draft order while it unfolded to secure players not yet selected.





And Clayton says the end goal is a draft where clubs can also trade players they have just secured minutes earlier for picks or players.





TOP TALENTS: SAM LANDSBERGER’S PHANTOM DRAFT TOP 30





LONG WAIT: HAWKS EYE DRAFT SLIDERS WITH LATE PICKS





GREATS’ LEGACY: MAGPIES MUST DRAFT FATHER-SON GUNS





Gold Coast recruiter Clayton, part of the AFL’s working group on player movement, told the Herald Sun he believed there was strong AFL support for the move.





The National Football League’s player draft goes over three days with clubs given seven minutes for early selections, allowing them time to horse-trade with rivals.





Clayton says there would be massive fan appeal and added flexibility in a draft where picks and drafted players were tradeable.

2015’s top 10 picks (from left) Jacob Weitering, Josh Schache, Callum Mills, Clayton Oliver, Darcy Parish, Aaron Francis, Jacob Hopper, Callum Ah Chee, Sam Weideman and Harry McKay. Picture: Simon Cross


Already the AFL has introduced live bidding for father-son and academy picks and he says this is just the logical next step.





“It’s a no-brainer. Clearly the kids who are selected are not anyone’s player until the end of the draft,’’ he said.





“We should be able to trade picks and players selected in the course of the draft. If someone picks someone at pick No.4 and you really want them you go and get them.





“You could offer two second-round picks and future pick. Or if the player you really want is still there at pick five you trade future or multiple picks to get that pick.





“I have been on about this for a little while.”





Clayton again raised the proposal at an AFL meeting on player movement this year and says the AFL is warming to the concept.





“I am sure there will be at least live picks traded next year. It would be really surprising if it didn’t happen. And trading players is the extra little step,’’ he said.





“This is the natural evolution. I think the inevitability of this has reached the AFL and they think it’s a good idea.”

Gold Coast Suns recruiter Scott Clayton.


The introduction of future pick trading has given clubs more flexibility to satisfy rivals in negotiations during trade week.





But they would also help in trading during the draft because clubs can more easily manoeuvre up and down the draft.





Clubs will go into Friday night’s national draft in Sydney with detailed plans but those draft orders are often turned on their head by left-field selections.





Collingwood’s Brodie Grundy was touted as a top-10 selection in the 2012 national draft but drifted all the way to selection 18.





Under the live trading scenario a club desperate for a ruckman could have traded into a mid-teens pick and secured him as a value selection.





Or if players could be traded a club could select a player sliding down the order – but not suitable to their needs – then trade him to a rival club.

 

[dazbroncos]

IMO, The AFLPA won't want the players to lose the autonomy of where they play.

Thus, I removed it as a variable. not saying it wont appear down the road but currently and in the near term (5 years) I dont see it personally.

The rest will happen but then need to introduce and let it play out for several cycles before changing it again - just to see how it plays out.

I know the NFL allows the trading of players on draft day but its rare in its occurrence. Also the trading of recently selected players is rare too - the most recent NFL example I can recall is Philly Rivers and Eli Manning with the Chargers and Giants. Point being is so infrequent, and with the AFLPA situation, I just dont see the need for it anytime soon.

The trading picks, IMO, will be enough for the interim (next 3-5) years to "spice up" thee Draft process.

The Redskins gave up the planet to get RGIII - 3 years of picks - and it sunk them. Rams did with Goff too and while the jury is still out they look to have lost so far.

I dont mind the process but the AFL needs to put trading restrictions in place, be clear about them, and enforce them. Id hate to see a team like the Lions for example become the Browns.

GO Catters