Rumour GFC 2021 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists... Part II

[Art Vandelay_]

I'd argue that both had good seasons, with Parfitt being more of a role player, and Selwood getting to play his preferred role as an inside mid.

Selwood had a better season, but Parf (as Strange Cat pointed out) has to play that accountable defensive role, which gives him more tackles and a higher pressure rating - but less disposals.

It's the same thing Guthrie got lambasted for when he played that same role, because TK, Danger and Sel were all attacking mids. TK wrote an article about how important Guth's role was for the team, and just how good he was at it.

Parf does very much the same thing, and in time, the baton will be handed on to someone else - which will then mean he'll get to play that more attacking role. In his best game against the Saints back in 2018 in that role, he had 30+ and kicked 3 goals. Not to mention, that for most of his career he's played that difficult high half forward role, which nets you only around 15-20 possessions a game at best anyway.

While I do agree that Selwood had a better season, it could be argued that Parfitt's self-sacrificial role, much like Guth prior to him, was that much more important to the team.

Both finished Top 10 in the B+F, and both had great seasons (they only finished 7 votes apart and played a similar amount of games so the differential is inconsequential IMO).

************************************

TL; DR both respective players can be lauded for their respective outputs/roles they played for the team this year. You don't have to sh*t on one, just to defend the other.

Most know I don't rate him atm, so the best I can offer is to agree with Warhorse to hold as a depth midfielder and hope that at some point he sets fire and becomes the player we thought he'd be when drafted.

 

[BORIS332]

Big whoop. He tackles.

Can't hit 20 touches a game.
Can't kick over a jam tin.
Panics under pressure.
Not good user by foot.
Average at best as a clearance player.

His point of difference you have as tackles?

He got 15 more than the captain who you are taking a dump on over his B&F finish. Who also got more of the footy (4 touches a game) and more clearances (2 per game) led the club for goal assists.

You're pumping up the 5 year start of a bloke who can't even better our captain on his last legs.
His games above 20 touches v oppo ladder position (2020 shortened games left off): 9th, 5th, 2nd, 16th, 10th, 6th, 5th, 15th, 4th, 6th, 12th, 15th, 12th, 16th, 4th, 18th, 6th, 12th, 16th, 17th, 5th, 4th, 11th, 7th, 1st, 2nd.

26/77 non-shortened games he passes the low bar of 20 disposals. A midfielder's bare minimum requirement.
That is 1 in 3 games. If we raise the bar to 25 touches it is now 4/77. 2/77 for 30+

2018: 18 disp 4.5 tackles 1.4 clearances
2019: 18.2 - 5.5 - 2.85
2020 (extrapolated): 19.3 - 7.5 - 3.5
2021: 18.6 - 5.6 - 3.2

See nothing but 4 years of stagnation. Still nothing more than 6th wheel in the midfield.. and wheels 1-5 are 33yo, 31yo, 30yo and 29yo x2. Not getting any younger yet Parfitt and Narkle do not take the next step. Their apparent ceiling is mid role player at best.

"How many of our premiership guns had a better first 5 years than that"

After 5 seasons had gone past the low bar of 20 disp

Duncan: 47 times
Bartel: 40 times.
Corey: 33 times
Ling: 55 times
Kelly: 32 times
Christensen: 45 times

So please please never again compare him to Selwood as you did earlier.
It is utterly insulting.

" Parfitt literally just produced a season equivalent to what Joel just did and is getting slammed for it. "

That was the remark and is downright insulting to Joel Selwood.

All that writing and stat-finding when you could've just said - "disposal count is the only thing that matters".

 

[Art Vandelay_]

All that writing and stat-finding when you could've just said - "disposal count is the only thing that matters".

Sort of a big deal for midfielders. If you have the footy, and give it to a teammate then your opponents don't have it and cannot score.

 

[ShaunWDT]

Parfitt has low disposial counts because of the role hes asked to play, how people are unable to understand that is beyond me, on the rare occasion hes been released to hunt the footy he has racked it up.

 

[CatRiot]

fu**, we'll take 6 of them

Yeah, Sier has that same mongrel style of play as Pike. Hard at it.

Watch the highlights, they move quite similar. Similar size too.










I think Sier can get distance by foot, but accuracy may be suspect, but he is a good user by hand in traffic. He runs at around 50-50 Contested vs Uncontested, but I did notice his Time on Ground was decreasing as his career progressed. He doesn't go goal side much. So he must be mainly an Inside Midfielder. I dunno, he probably has a few limitations. It seems glaring that you kind of have to be near elite when it comes to midfield positions these days, it sets the good from the bad teams.

 

[Turbocat]

Yeah I read the description of him on the AFL website and immediately thought he ticked a lot of boxes on the Wells checklist.

Which particular boxes ?

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Sort of a big deal for midfielders. If you have the footy, and give it to a teammate then your opponents don't have it and cannot score.

Spot on - as Super coach Ron Barassi famously said when giving gun Melb midfielder Gerrard Healy a massive spray - " You give me possessions and i will shut up "

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Yeah I read the description of him on the AFL website and immediately thought he ticked a lot of boxes on the Wells checklist.

Luca Whitelum?

 

[Heckler]

Now that Ceglar is a Cat, new possibilities open up.
The thought of any talented player on the list, as a back-up. bothers me.
Especially as there is room for improvement in numerous positions.
With Hendo retired and Kreuger traded CHB needs attention.
Stanley at CHB could be an inspired move.
He has the physical attributes and skills to handle the bean-pole forwards.
He can handle ruck in the D50 and Hawkins in the F50
This reduces Ceglar's workload and allows him to remain as a midfield marking target
SDK can be eased into the defence rather than too much responsibility too soon.

 

[Heckler]

Watching highlight videos of prospective draftees gives a false perception.
Especially when looking at the physical attributes and general skills.
The value of Footy Smarts is often under valued... or overlooked.
Simply compare the Footy Smarts of the Cats team from the golden era to the present squad.
Gazza, Stevie-J, Bartel, Enright, Scarlet. Kelly, Corey, Harley Mackie Milburn, Ling, Varco etc...
Virtually every player had footy smarts in abundance
The current Cats team has Blitz, Kolo, Esava, Atkins, Holmes and O'Connor with below par footy nouse.
This is 1 in 3 players with questions marks on Stanley, Touhy and others.
I suggest this could this be the reason for our recent final failures.

Footy Smarts is a big reason why so many drafted kids fail to make it at AFL level.
Not just the kind of smarts picked up from playing the game for years..
Also the academic smarts of being able to pick up skills and learn things quickly.
Please get this right this time Mr Wells.

 

[00VicWard001]

I think he tested a lot better than I thought but Cooper stephens better not be one of the latter. Anyone have his times cause i am worried he just a good ordinary mid who doesn't move that well.

Joel Selwood is also a one-paced mid. Just had something intangible.

Lachie Neale is a fairly small mid.

They can make it, but they have to be the hardest worker in that room and have great football skills.

 

[00VicWard001]

Watching highlight videos of prospective draftees gives a false perception.
Especially when looking at the physical attributes and general skills.
The value of Footy Smarts is often under valued... or overlooked.
Simply compare the Footy Smarts of the Cats team from the golden era to the present squad.
Gazza, Stevie-J, Bartel, Enright, Scarlet. Kelly, Corey, Harley Mackie Milburn, Ling, Varco etc...
Virtually every player had footy smarts in abundance
The current Cats team has Blitz, Kolo, Esava, Atkins, Holmes and O'Connor with below par footy nouse.
This is 1 in 3 players with questions marks on Stanley, Touhy and others.
I suggest this could this be the reason for our recent final failures.

Footy Smarts is a big reason why so many drafted kids fail to make it at AFL level.
Not just the kind of smarts picked up from playing the game for years..
Also the academic smarts of being able to pick up skills and learn things quickly.
Please get this right this time Mr Wells.

Yep, Dustin Martin, Prestia, Baker, Vlastuin, Grimes, Nankervis, Riewoldt… most of their team are ridiculously high on this stat.

 

[BORIS332]

Sort of a big deal for midfielders. If you have the footy, and give it to a teammate then your opponents don't have it and cannot score.

I think there are other metrics that our coaches value, as evidenced by Parfitt’s B&F result.

 

[OzeSparky]

I want us to keep the picks we have.

With less games cause of covid and less travel from the main recruiters to watch, I really think some bargains are there for the taking.
Once the Kids get into a full time footy environment they will kick on.

I know most think the higher the pic the better, but I really think this year that plenty of players that would of been rated higher if no covid will slip down the draft.

So it’s a keep what we got from me.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I want us to keep the picks we have.

With less games cause of covid and less travel from the main recruiters to watch, I really think some bargains are there for the taking.
Once the Kids get into a full time footy environment they will kick on.

I know most think the higher the pic the better, but I really think this year that plenty of players that would of been rated higher if no covid will slip down the draft.

So it’s a keep what we got from me.

I'm with you, I'm not too fussed if we keep our current picks.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I think there are other metrics that our coaches value, as evidenced by Parfitt’s B&F result.

Already shown a vast list of midfielders who are doing both so for me it is a cop out.

Secondly, can I borrow you anytime someone talks down Blicavs? You know high B&F finishes and all.

 

[Sire of Claude]

Parfitt plays a role. Yes, his role is evidently to try not to get 20 disposals.

Whenever a player in this forum is being questioned we are informed he plays a role. Give me a role player who can get a few kicks, particularly if he is a mid-fielder: by definition a decent mid, who spends most of his time around the ball, should be able to get 20 + week in and week out. Nor is Parfitt an elite user; he is barely B-grade, albeit he may yet improve a bit. His limitations could be borne if he were surrounded by classy mids, but most the others are ageing and slowing.

The team desperately needs some mids with ball-winning ability and good skills; it won't be easy to find one in the 30's and for that reason perhaps we should trade up to 23 - successive picks assures you are of getting if you are in 2 minds.

 

[BORIS332]

Already shown a vast list of midfielders who are doing both so for me it is a cop out.

Secondly, can I borrow you anytime someone talks down Blicavs? You know high B&F finishes and all.

Name a 23 year old (or younger) midfielder that is as good defensively as Parfitt, accumulates more of the ball and plays alongside elite MIDs like Danger, Selwood, Guthrie, etc. The only one I can think of is Taranto.

 

[catempire]

Parfitt has low disposial counts because of the role hes asked to play, how people are unable to understand that is beyond me, on the rare occasion hes been released to hunt the footy he has racked it up.

Those who can (win the ball), do. Those who can’t tackle. That’s Parfitt. Useful but limited player.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Those who can (win the ball), do. Those who can’t tackle. That’s Parfitt. Useful but limited player.

Of course, if you're really good at Parfitt's role - defensive inside mid - then you can both tackle and get the ball; like our new assistant coach, James Kelly.

 

[Jumping Jack]

Now that Ceglar is a Cat, new possibilities open up.
The thought of any talented player on the list, as a back-up. bothers me.
Especially as there is room for improvement in numerous positions.
With Hendo retired and Kreuger traded CHB needs attention.
Stanley at CHB could be an inspired move.
He has the physical attributes and skills to handle the bean-pole forwards.
He can handle ruck in the D50 and Hawkins in the F50
This reduces Ceglar's workload and allows him to remain as a midfield marking target
SDK can be eased into the defence rather than too much responsibility too soon.

I'm hearing that both Stanley and Esava will be doing defensive work over pre season. Geelong will avoid playing two specialist rucks in the same 22, so unless Cameron or Hawkins miss chunks of football, I expect that one or both of Stanley or Esava will see time in D50. Having Egan (potentially) and Taylor at the club will no doubt help speed up the progress of the likes of SDK, but will also help if Geelong intend to get a few different looks until someone stakes a claim on the position.

If Ceglar puts his hand up and holds down a ruck spot for most of the year, I think we'll see a few pieces on the chess board moved around. If Ceglar is just insurance, then we still know what we've got with the Stanley / Esava combo that served us ok last year.

In terms of midfield, it will be a minor changing of the guard as some have suggested. Not wholesale changes as the panic merchants have demanded, but Selwoods time will be reduced in a pure mid role as we know, and they see O'Connor as someone who will push into the midfield and spend more time there. Holmes will get more game time (his midfield time in finals pointed to where they see him) and everyone seems to forget the amount of footy Duncan and C Guthrie missed last year. Midfield rotations are key - and I don't think there's too many concerns when we have a core group of Selwood Dangerfield Guthrie Duncan Holmes O'Connor Parfitt Narkle to run through there. Maybe missing one classy player with leg speed and that's no doubt what the focus will be on draft night.

 

[BORIS332]

Parfitt plays a role. Yes, his role is evidently to try not to get 20 disposals.

Whenever a player in this forum is being questioned we are informed he plays a role. Give me a role player who can get a few kicks, particularly if he is a mid-fielder: by definition a decent mid, who spends most of his time around the ball, should be able to get 20 + week in and week out. Nor is Parfitt an elite user; he is barely B-grade, albeit he may yet improve a bit. His limitations could be borne if he were surrounded by classy mids, but most the others are ageing and slowing.

The team desperately needs some mids with ball-winning ability and good skills; it won't be easy to find one in the 30's and for that reason perhaps we should trade up to 23 - successive picks assures you are of getting if you are in 2 minds.

He registered 20 disposals or more in 11/22 games (excluding the Semi where he got injured). Don't forget his average TOG% is 69%, aka less than 3/4 game time.

All of the people bagging Parfitt were no doubt the same people calling Hawkins and Guthrie liabilities. Parfitt is 23 years of age and his numbers stack up to the #1 draft pick from his draft:

Draft Pick	Player	Current Team	Career games	2021 Avg. Disposals	2021 Avg. Tackles
26	Brandan Parfitt	Geelong	95	18.8	5.6
1	Andrew McGrath	Essendon	93	22.6	4.4

He's going into his 6th season.

• Bartel only averaged 23 disposals in his fifth season, just four more disposals than Parf did this year, and in a much less defensively-demanding role.
• James Kelly didn't average 20 disposals until his 7th season.
• Paul Chapman didn't average 20 disposals until his 7th season.
• Joel Corey didn't average 20 disposals until his 6th season.
• Gary jnr didn't average 20 disposals until his 6th season.

Have some patience.

 

[bulletproof]

I am not across the details (is anyone?) of Parfitt’s role but the game against Collingwood when we had several midfielders out, he had 30 touches and was close to best on ground.

Was that an outlier because he got the opportunity or just one out of the box in a very low standard game?

I can’t say.

But I do hope Selwood’s days as a primary midfielder are over. He was woeful in the finals and that spot should go to Parfitt and even Narkle now.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Of course, if you're really good at Parfitt's role - defensive inside mid - then you can both tackle and get the ball; like our new assistant coach, James Kelly.

True, but Parfitt is tracking ahead of Kelly in terms of both disposals and tackles at the same age/stage of their careers. He'll be fine.

 

[Turbocat]

Now that Ceglar is a Cat, new possibilities open up.
The thought of any talented player on the list, as a back-up. bothers me.
Especially as there is room for improvement in numerous positions.
With Hendo retired and Kreuger traded CHB needs attention.
Stanley at CHB could be an inspired move.
He has the physical attributes and skills to handle the bean-pole forwards.
He can handle ruck in the D50 and Hawkins in the F50
This reduces Ceglar's workload and allows him to remain as a midfield marking target
SDK can be eased into the defence rather than too much responsibility too soon.

If you want Stanley to float in the backline as a marking sweeper , he could do that. If you expect him to be a defender then I feel it will fail.