Rumour GFC 2023 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt II

[cats_09]

Yep, this is making an appearance here also, and probably getting more useful as the season draws to a close and this discussion ramps up

 

[Finknottle]

It's why I reckon we'll push to get Smith done this year. 7 & the Sav pick or something like that.

We've got JUH, Cadman, Butters & Smith (if we don't get him this year) on our radar for 2024.

You'd think we can only bring in two in one off-season at a maximum. It's a ridiculous amount of draft capital/quality players.

What about our 'no mullet' policy

 

[Vdubs]

Heard it every year for 20 years. Just gonna have to see it to believe it.

At least the Blues hype will finally be built on something of a bit of substance. Bombers aren't even at that stage yet.

I don't mind if they don't.
Can't have every team being close to contention.
The Hawks rebuild is a fair bit quicker than I had hoped.

 

[foxdog50]

Think there's a chance we'll leave a list spot open now that mid year trades are a thing. With Blicavs as back up, I think we'll risk not taking a back up ruck for the sake of a list spot and we can fill it mid year if we need to.

We'll back a combination of Stanley - Conway - Neale - Blicavs ...... and only take another ruck if we need to. Conversely, if we get to mid year and have a hole to fill on the ground, we can use that pick to take someone to fill that gap.

If we dont get a back up ruck ( a proper 3rd genuine ruckman ) going into 2024 season, we are in big trouble...
With our ruck trouble this year in not having fir ruck to choose it cost us hugely.. we will need a ruckman

 

[Grimoz]

.. More Irish guys on the horizon

Roos target pick one, Dee to go on, big Dog to stay

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

FOUR CLUBS TRIAL IRISH TALENTS

ESSENDON, Richmond, Geelong and Hawthorn will host the four Irish prospects for trials this week ahead of their testing at the AFL Draft Combine.

The AFL has brought out four talents – James McLaughlin, Eoin McElholm, Odran Murdock and Conor Corbett – to trial at clubs and also take part in the three-day Combine later this week.

The players were at the Bombers on Monday, with trials also to take place at the Tigers, Cats and Hawks through the week before the Combine commences on Friday at the Melbourne Park and MCG precinct.



Eoin McElholm (inset) and a general scene at the National Draft Combine. Pictures: AFL Photos/X
Corbett is a 192cm star at Gaelic level, while McLaughlin is a sports all-rounder having played basketball, soccer, golf and Gaelic rules. McElholm is renowned for his speed, while Murdock is the standout player from his county, with all chasing an AFL contract.

The AFL's venture back into the Irish scene has seen Carlton sign two players – Rob Monahan and Matt Duffy – as category B rookies already, while St Kilda listed Liam O’Connell recently as well.

It also follows the AFL Grand Final, where Irishman Conor McKenna played for the Lions and American Mason Cox became a premiership player with Collingwood. – Callum Twomey

Whats the obsession especially from us with Irish guys, is there not enough home grown talent to choose from, frustrating to say the least.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Not sure - didn’t see it. I find that anytime I watch anything AFL related on Ch7 a part of me dies.

For that reason I don’t tune in if I can avoid it.


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Lucky you don't have feelings.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Whats the obsession especially from us with Irish guys, is there not enough home grown talent to choose from, frustrating to say the least.

Don't like the Irish connection Grimoz?

Personally I love it, great aspect to our game and there's no harm that I can see in having an adjacent feeder sport like Gaelic Footy has become to draw from.

From a narrower perspective the Tuohy/O'Connor/Mullin connection might give us a leg up in getting yet another good Gaelic prospect onto the rookie list.

 

[Vivy]

Whats the obsession especially from us with Irish guys, is there not enough home grown talent to choose from, frustrating to say the least.

I'd say in a nutshell it's the opportunity to get young, talented athletes into the club who would otherwise go in the first round of the draft had they been born in Australia and played Aussie rules.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

What did Smith say in that interview on Channel 7 last week? Didn’t see it but surely he was repeatedly asked.

He said he didnt enjoy not playing midfield but he should have handled that better and accepted his role. Said hes staying for 2024.

 

[year of the cat]

What about 7 for Carlton’s FF plus 16? They will need offload their FF for Camporeale.

 

[CHAWKTS]

CHAWKTS hey was it you saying we chatting one of these guys? Was it Mcgaughlin?

Nope that wasn’t me (I don’t think. Sometimes I do say things without listening!)

my cat b “insight” was the basketballer. Don’t know about the irish

 

[Pure_Ownage]

What about 7 for Carlton’s FF plus 16? They will need offload their FF for Camporeale.

They will finish top 4 next year i think id want a bit more.

 

[year of the cat]

They will finish top 4 next year i think id want a bit more.

Probably a bit light on for us I agree.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Think there's a chance we'll leave a list spot open now that mid year trades are a thing. With Blicavs as back up, I think we'll risk not taking a back up ruck for the sake of a list spot and we can fill it mid year if we need to.

We'll back a combination of Stanley - Conway - Neale - Blicavs ...... and only take another ruck if we need to. Conversely, if we get to mid year and have a hole to fill on the ground, we can use that pick to take someone to fill that gap.

Neale Balme had it right a few years back when he observed that a club can only ever have too many or too few rucks on the list - never the right amount.

There's probably only ever 2-3 clubs that go into a season comfortable with where their ruck stocks are at; most clubs are probably only two injuries away from a ruck crisis.

Most of the tall list-clingers rotating through various clubs, playing a handful of games every other season, are barely worth the investment - until they become critical.

We've been among the worst in the comp for getting the rucking mix right for years now. But a lot of that has come down to luck, too.

My big whinge was finally addressed when we bit the bullet and drafted Toby Conway; I've been very prepared to bite my tongue and bide my time while he develops - and it might never work out. But he is exactly the type of prospect I was advocating for a couple of seasons ago.

So: do we need one more big body as insurance?
We did this season just gone; Jon Ceglar was the quintessential 3rd string ruckman and he did about as well - or poorly - as could have been expected.

Do we need more ''insurance'' of his ilk?

Blicavs has been extremely durable up until his hammy at the end of this year; can that durability be relied upon moving forward or are the miles starting to pile up?

Rhys Stanley's injury this year was very unfortunate. He'll be 33 at the start of next year. I don't anticipate another broken eye socket. But if there is one thing we have learned with Rhys Stanley, it is to expect the unexpected. He is a hard one to plan around.

Shannon Neale will presumably be in a position to physically contribute more regularly next year; big strong kid, another pre-season under the belt, a little more senior exposure late this season.

With big Joe Furphy floating around, it might just be enough to squeak by without having to carry a journeyman ruck on the list.

But it might not. Might need to consult Balme on this one.

 

[cats_09]

Exactly. We effectively trade 7 for 10 and 17 and then give 10 back as part of the Smith trade. We retain 17.

IN other words - Dogs - 7 and f2 - Cats - pick 17 plus Smith

IF there's an initial trade between Geelong & the Bulldogs for a pick swap of 7 for 10 & 17, which team is then involved as the 3rd party to move 10 back to the Bulldogs?

Trade rules prohibit 2 teams from trading the same pick or picks between themselves without it being traded to via another team - the AFL cracked down on the rules around pick trades a few years back when Sydney & WCE (?) agreed to a live pick trade during the draft when an early bid had been placed on a player, then after that trade had gone through, the bid matched with later picks used, the two teams then essentially traded the original picks back

 

[Lana]

They will finish top 4 next year i think id want a bit more.

Doubt

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Whats the obsession especially from us with Irish guys, is there not enough home grown talent to choose from, frustrating to say the least.

If you're going to win a flag, you have to find a few diamonds in the rough to do it.

Mentioned it a few weeks back, but if you're trying to win a flag using just first round picks, it's going to take you 10-15 years, and you're bound to pick a couple busts as well.

Whether it be late picks, mature age players, or basketball/Irish converts, it's important to have all avenues open to building a premiership side. It's just too hard otherwise.

 

[jnrburger]

All our picks in the 100s will come in to the 50s/60s and you could use 3 or 4 of them (like we did in 2015) and take a kid or two plus a couple of mature guys (mannagh and vdh for example).

Yeah, I get that it’s possible - and Mackie specifically referred to liking some of the talent late in the draft this year to start to warm everyone up to the likelihood of having to take a couple - but trading all early picks into next year and taking a swag of late round picks this year to fill list spots would have consequences when considering the quality and number of key players likely retiring next year - and we don’t have solid depth in critical roles in the 24-29yo range to absorb it.

Leading into 2015 we had far more depth in critical roles who were in the middle age bracket - eg. Selwood was 26 yo with 184 games (!!), Hawkins 26yo with 147 games (and nearly 300 goals by then), Duncan 23yo with 100 games, Stanley 24yo and about 60 games, Taylor 28yo and 159 games, Caddy 22yo and 58 games, Cam Guthrie 22yo and 64 games, Motlop 24 with 68 games, Blicavs was 24 and had built 45 games. On top of these, we had the likes of Menzel and Vardy who were in the right age bracket (albeit perpetually injured), not to mention the Mitch Clark experiment who was 27yo at the time. At the end of 2015, we obviously traded for Dangerfield which effectively added a Brownlow medal to those middle aged players who were coming into their own, and we rose from finishing 10th in 2015, to 2nd in 2016.

Barring the ability to trade for a strong midfielder like Smith this year (and having missed parish as a FA), we will need ALL of Conway, Knevitt, Clark and Neale to (very quickly) convert to strong and consistent AFL level players for the team to be halfway competitive in 2025. I have a degree of confidence in all of them (some more than others), but none of them have played more than 10 games to this point, so there is a long way to go.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that if we don’t get Smith, I’d rather get a solid top 10 pick along with a mid 20s pick (for Sav) into our system this year, rather than trading our first into next year. At least we’d then be two more players into the regeneration and have fewer late round picks on the list (which may just turn into list cloggers for two years before we have to cut them at the same time the remaining older guys are retiring).


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[year of the cat]

IF there's an initial trade between Geelong & the Bulldogs for a pick swap of 7 for 10 & 17, which team is then involved as the 3rd party to move 10 back to the Bulldogs?

Trade rules prohibit 2 teams from trading the same pick or picks between themselves without it being traded to via another team - the AFL cracked down on the rules around pick trades a few years back when Sydney & WCE (?) agreed to a live pick trade during the draft when an early bid had been placed on a player, then after that trade had gone through, the bid matched with later picks used, the two teams then essentially traded the original picks back

We probably don’t need to include pick 10. Just Smith plus 17 for 7 and our F2.

 

[CatsDoItBetter]

Anyone who thought it was a reach for geelong to tell port we want a first round pick for Esava well.
Dodoro has entered the chat
First round pick for Zerk Thatcher!

 

[FootyLad0]

What about 7 for Carlton’s FF plus 16? They will need offload their FF for Camporeale.

There is 2 of them they’d need points for and both will be top 10 picks.
Bloody Carlton getting more freakish talent through the draft.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Yeah, I get that it’s possible - and Mackie specifically referred to liking some of the talent late in the draft this year to start to warm everyone up to the likelihood of having to take a couple - but trading all early picks into next year and taking a swag of late round picks this year to fill list spots would have consequences when considering the quality and number of key players likely retiring next year - and we don’t have solid depth in critical roles in the 24-29yo range to absorb it.

Leading into 2015 we had far more depth in critical roles who were in the middle age bracket - eg. Selwood was 26 yo with 184 games (!!), Hawkins 26yo with 147 games (and nearly 300 goals by then), Duncan 23yo with 100 games, Stanley 24yo and about 60 games, Taylor 28yo and 159 games, Caddy 22yo and 58 games, Cam Guthrie 22yo and 64 games, Motlop 24 with 68 games, Blicavs was 24 and had built 45 games. On top of these, we had the likes of Menzel and Vardy who were in the right age bracket (albeit perpetually injured), not to mention the Mitch Clark experiment who was 27yo at the time. At the end of 2015, we obviously traded for Dangerfield which effectively added a Brownlow medal to those middle aged players who were coming into their own, and we rose from finishing 10th in 2015, to 2nd in 2016.

Barring the ability to trade for a strong midfielder like Smith this year (and having missed parish as a FA), we will need ALL of Conway, Knevitt, Clark and Neale to (very quickly) convert to strong and consistent AFL level players for the team to be halfway competitive in 2025. I have a degree of confidence in all of them (some more than others), but none of them have played more than 10 games to this point, so there is a long way to go.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that if we don’t get Smith, I’d rather get a solid top 10 pick along with a mid 20s pick (for Sav) into our system this year, rather than trading our first into next year. At least we’d then be two more players into the regeneration and have fewer late round picks on the list (which may just turn into list cloggers for two years before we have to cut them at the same time the remaining older guys are retiring).


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You might be surprised at how quickly kids can develop when thrown into the fire.

It doesn't always work, but at the start of the year the narrative was the Hawks are devoid of talent, tanking for Reid, 5-6 year rebuild on the cards etc.

Fast forward to now, and it's looking more like 3 years. That's what happens when you land on some late picks and players develop quickly.

We'll wait and see, but it looks like we're going big for Smith (If not this year), Cadman, JUH, Butters etc to help lead that new group.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Yeah, I get that it’s possible - and Mackie specifically referred to liking some of the talent late in the draft this year to start to warm everyone up to the likelihood of having to take a couple - but trading all early picks into next year and taking a swag of late round picks this year to fill list spots would have consequences when considering the quality and number of key players likely retiring next year - and we don’t have solid depth in critical roles in the 24-29yo range to absorb it.

Leading into 2015 we had far more depth in critical roles who were in the middle age bracket - eg. Selwood was 26 yo with 184 games (!!), Hawkins 26yo with 147 games (and nearly 300 goals by then), Duncan 23yo with 100 games, Stanley 24yo and about 60 games, Taylor 28yo and 159 games, Caddy 22yo and 58 games, Cam Guthrie 22yo and 64 games, Motlop 24 with 68 games, Blicavs was 24 and had built 45 games. On top of these, we had the likes of Menzel and Vardy who were in the right age bracket (albeit perpetually injured), not to mention the Mitch Clark experiment who was 27yo at the time. At the end of 2015, we obviously traded for Dangerfield which effectively added a Brownlow medal to those middle aged players who were coming into their own, and we rose from finishing 10th in 2015, to 2nd in 2016.

Barring the ability to trade for a strong midfielder like Smith this year (and having missed parish as a FA), we will need ALL of Conway, Knevitt, Clark and Neale to (very quickly) convert to strong and consistent AFL level players for the team to be halfway competitive in 2025. I have a degree of confidence in all of them (some more than others), but none of them have played more than 10 games to this point, so there is a long way to go.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that if we don’t get Smith, I’d rather get a solid top 10 pick along with a mid 20s pick (for Sav) into our system this year, rather than trading our first into next year. At least we’d then be two more players into the regeneration and have fewer late round picks on the list (which may just turn into list cloggers for two years before we have to cut them at the same time the remaining older guys are retiring).


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I dont disagree with your comments about our depth this year vs 2015 and thats why i said i think either through this draft period or FA next year but we need to bring in more quality 24-28yos.

My point was more around the depth of this draft specifically..after the first 20 its pretty even so in reality while we traded out say 27 46 and 62 we will likely end up using say 55 58 and 59 and getting similar quality players as we would have got if we kept the picks. Whereas 2024 looks a much better pool so i would have been more concerned if we gave away future picks. In terms of trading our r1 into next year it would depend on the specific pick return but next year looks like a much better pool so if you get the right return waiting 12 months for a player that will be better long term is probably worth it. I do agree if we are to be competitive in 2025 some of the key kids will have to come on a lot next year or we will have to bring in multiple quality mid age FAs at the end of next year.

 

[Vdubs]

Neale Balme had it right a few years back when he observed that a club can only ever have too many or too few rucks on the list - never the right amount.

There's probably only ever 2-3 clubs that go into a season comfortable with where their ruck stocks are at; most clubs are probably only two injuries away from a ruck crisis.

Most of the tall list-clingers rotating through various clubs, playing a handful of games every other season, are barely worth the investment - until they become critical.

We've been among the worst in the comp for getting the rucking mix right for years now. But a lot of that has come down to luck, too.

My big whinge was finally addressed when we bit the bullet and drafted Toby Conway; I've been very prepared to bite my tongue and bide my time while he develops - and it might never work out. But he is exactly the type of prospect I was advocating for a couple of seasons ago.

So: do we need one more big body as insurance?
We did this season just gone; Jon Ceglar was the quintessential 3rd string ruckman and he did about as well - or poorly - as could have been expected.

Do we need more ''insurance'' of his ilk?

Blicavs has been extremely durable up until his hammy at the end of this year; can that durability be relied upon moving forward or are the miles starting to pile up?

Rhys Stanley's injury this year was very unfortunate. He'll be 33 at the start of next year. I don't anticipate another broken eye socket. But if there is one thing we have learned with Rhys Stanley, it is to expect the unexpected. He is a hard one to plan around.

Shannon Neale will presumably be in a position to physically contribute more regularly next year; big strong kid, another pre-season under the belt, a little more senior exposure late this season.

With big Joe Furphy floating around, it might just be enough to squeak by without having to carry a journeyman ruck on the list.

But it might not. Might need to consult Balme on this one.

Reminds me of when we recruited project ruckman Dawson Simpson. I thought he was coming along beautifully, and I was there the day he did his knee in a freak ruck contest. Pretty sure that had a big impact on our 2013 flag chances. We smashed the Saints by over 100 points and looked to be flying. We had Vardy, Brown, West, Walker, a young Blicavs as backups, but NO true ruckman.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We probably don’t need to include pick 10. Just Smith plus 17 for 7 and our F2.

Bulldogs would never do that even if we chucked back some late bid points this year. They would want more for smith.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Doubt

I think carlton are a good chance of finishing very high with the list they have.