Gold Coast and GWS has failed

jedi mind tricks

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GWS still have a chance to be successful.

They will still be a top 4 team for years to come.

GC are cooked. They missed the boat and are now waiting to die
If a club needs to be consistently in the top 4 of the afl to be deemed a success then the afl has issues.

Both GC and GWS are based in areas where very few people actually care for AFL who don't already support a team.

It's hard to create new supporters and the AFL are desperately trying to expand.
 

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If Gold Coast weren't so poor on-field I actually think they would be doing better with attendances than GWS.

I was fine with expansion but only wanted 1 team in new territory north and the 2nd in Tasmania.
Gold Coast actually got a larger home crowd attendance than GWS did last year, despite GWS being premiership favourites and a top four team and Gold Coast finishing second last. The crowds GC got early 2014 when they actually looked competitive showed the AFL made the right call to put a team there.

Would have made more sense to expand with GC and Tassie before GWS but can see the AFL rationale behind putting GWS before Tassie. Tasmania when they get admitted will have a decent fanbase immediately. GC and especially GWS will take decades.

Merge and send to Tassie. Allow them to select 38 players that fit under the normal salary cap and the rest go into an expansion draft.

Gold Coast isn't a city and no one cares about AFL in Western Sydney.
Obviously you've never tried to navigate GC traffic and haven't been there in a long time. It's definitely a city nowadays, hence the money spent on the tram network and the horrendous traffic. Also GC has a larger population than the entire state of Tassie
 

sherb

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Tasmania has way less growth potential than Gold Coast and Western Sydney. I mean just last week North Melbourne only got 7194 people to watch them at Bundstone.
I wouldn't go to watch a team I had no interest in, playing there only for money, either.

The attendance is an understandable reaction by the Tasmanian people to the AFL feeding them crumbs.
 

madmug

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Obviously you've never tried to navigate GC traffic and haven't been there in a long time. It's definitely a city nowadays, hence the money spent on the tram network and the horrendous traffic. Also GC has a larger population than the entire state of Tassie
GC has one other thing, a strong beach culture. Which probably explains why so many sport franchise clubs have failed.

HAL, NBL, NRL, AFL. So so many, so often.

People have other things to do. The 'support' for professional sport suffers from that.

At least I think it does. Why else would so many clubs fail on the GC? Anyone?

How much will it end up costing the AFL before & if they actually ever pay their way?
 

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GC has one other thing, a strong beach culture. Which probably explains why so many sport franchise clubs have failed.

HAL, NBL, NRL, AFL. So so many, so often.

People have other things to do. The 'support' for professional sport suffers from that.

At least I think it does. Why else would so many clubs fail on the GC? Anyone?

How much will it end up costing the AFL before & if they actually ever pay their way?
I lived in the Gold Coast not long ago, no actual GC resident goes to the beach in winter (except the ones that recently migrate from Vic or Tas). Every club that has failed has done so because either the club or league had been poorly run:
- The original Gold Coast NSWRL/ARL/NRL team were forced to originally play games in Tweed (which is in NSW) due to contractual obligations, and when they finally moved to the actual Gold Coast the whole Super League war happened (which saw a lot of RL clubs across the country fold or merge)
- The Brisbane Bears were always going to eventually play at the Gabba, Carrara was always intended to be a temporary arrangement until the Gabba greyhound track and Skase was gone.
- The NBL had been incredibly poorly run when the Blaze folded. At one point the NBL actually had NO teams in Sydney AND Brisbane.
- Clive Palmer thought putting in a crowd cap of 5000 to save on hiring costs was a good idea for GCU, before that they were drawing in decent crowds
- Titans actually had the second biggest home crowd averages in their first few seasons in the NRL when they were competitive.
- The Suns were getting good crowds in early 2014 when they looked like making finals.

Apart from parts of NSW that are near the VIC/SA border and pockets of North Sydney (as people there follow the Swans out of spite because the North Sydney Bears are gone), the Gold Coast is the closest split to a 50/50 AFL/NRL city, due to the mass migration of people from Victoria/SA/Tas. Obviously most of those people won't change teams, but the AFL's goal is to get their kids to become Suns supporters. Most of their supporters are kids, it's why they get better crowds to afternoon and twilight home games than night home games and it's why they wear a bright red jumper. AFL folding the Suns or NRL folding the Titans would be suicidal.
 

madmug

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I lived in the Gold Coast not long ago, no actual GC resident goes to the beach in winter (except the ones that recently migrate from Vic or Tas). Every club that has failed has done so because either the club or league had been poorly run:
- The original Gold Coast NSWRL/ARL/NRL team were forced to originally play games in Tweed (which is in NSW) due to contractual obligations, and when they finally moved to the actual Gold Coast the whole Super League war happened (which saw a lot of RL clubs across the country fold or merge)
- The Brisbane Bears were always going to eventually play at the Gabba, Carrara was always intended to be a temporary arrangement until the Gabba greyhound track and Skase was gone.
- The NBL had been incredibly poorly run when the Blaze folded. At one point the NBL actually had NO teams in Sydney AND Brisbane.
- Clive Palmer thought putting in a crowd cap of 5000 to save on hiring costs was a good idea for GCU, before that they were drawing in decent crowds
- Titans actually had the second biggest home crowd averages in their first few seasons in the NRL when they were competitive.
- The Suns were getting good crowds in early 2014 when they looked like making finals.

Apart from parts of NSW that are near the VIC/SA border and pockets of North Sydney (as people there follow the Swans out of spite because the North Sydney Bears are gone), the Gold Coast is the closest split to a 50/50 AFL/NRL city, due to the mass migration of people from Victoria/SA/Tas. Obviously most of those people won't change teams, but the AFL's goal is to get their kids to become Suns supporters. Most of their supporters are kids, it's why they get better crowds to afternoon and twilight home games than night home games and it's why they wear a bright red jumper. AFL folding the Suns or NRL folding the Titans would be suicidal.
So its all 'just bad luck' then. All those clubs, all those sports & its 'just bad luck'.

I guess thats possible. I'd hate to think how much has been spent & lost on all those clubs. How much will be spent before the good luck rolls in.
 
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So its all 'just bad luck' then. All those clubs, all those sports & its 'just bad luck'.

I guess thats possible. I'd hate to think how much has been spent & lost on all those clubs. How much will be spent before the good luck rolls in.
Do you really just equate all that to luck? Really?... Take a closer look at the "graveyard" everyone speaks of in the Gold Coast:

NBL: Although Australians do enjoy their basketball as both a participation and spectator sport, the league went through some extreme administrative difficulties for a long time. If we are using NBL as a yardstick for whether or not a market can support a professional team, then all of Adelaide, Melbourne, Geelong, Sydney and Brisbane have had clubs fold in the competition, and cannot support a team. (Hobart and Launceston both have had teams fold from the NBL too, FWIW).

A-League: The team was owned and run by Clive Palmer, for what seemed like a poorly thought out cash grab. Capped attendance, owned by someone that is widely disliked/hated, and being overshadowed by the newly formed Titans (averaging in the top half of all Rugby League average attendances during the time) and the soon to be formed Gold Coast Suns.

Rugby League:
Giants/Seagulls/Gladiators/Chargers: Came last or second last in 7 of their 11 years in operation. Largely a victim of the Super League War. Was also based out of Tweed Heads for most of its life (8 of 11 seasons).
Titans: The Titans burst onto the scene with extremely strong crowds initially. Like the Suns, really struggled to find on-field success, which has caused a steady decline in their attendances over the years. Typically however, they still average around the middle in terms of season average attendances for the NRL. This year appears more bleak than it is, as 2 of 5 home games have been played at regional grounds. The real killer for the Titans has been their stadium deal and very disappointing on-field performances over their life.

Australian Rules:
Bears: While based at Carrara (temporarily between 1987 and 1992) they were bottom 2 in every year except 1, where they came 10th out of 14. BRISBANE Bears were never a Gold Coast team, they just happened to play at the Gold Coast for the first few seasons until they could move into Brisbane properly. Maybe similar to North Melbourne playing home games at Hobart one could say, if North were a bottom 2 team. Understandably, this did not capture the imagination of the Gold Coast public.
Suns: Another team that has really struggled on-field its entire existence. Averaged almost 20,000 in a 25,000 stadium in its first year, but has since averaged around 13,000 every year since (apart from a 16,000 average year in 2014 when they weren't around the bottom of the table for the only time in their existence). The potential is evident from this when they finally get themselves sorted on the field. Furthermore, if you want to actually look into the benefits the Suns have brought to Australian Rules on the Gold Coast, look into the increase in participation figures on the Gold Coast since their inception.

While it seems like there must be some fundamental issue in the Gold Coast based on a glancing look at its past outfits, there have been some core external issues in nearly every one of their failed teams. In reality, the Gold Coast is the heartland of Australian Rules in Queensland which produces a strong amount of AFL footballers. Its understandable that you get frustrated by others commenting on the situation in Tasmania when they do not have first hand experience in the area, but then bizarrely and hypocritically do the same towards the Gold Coast. I'd advise you to look beyond the narrative the media portrays in scenarios like this, and do your own research.
 

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So its all 'just bad luck' then. All those clubs, all those sports & its 'just bad luck'.

I guess thats possible. I'd hate to think how much has been spent & lost on all those clubs. How much will be spent before the good luck rolls in.
Really Mug?

You take shots at anyone who has an outside opinion about Tassie.
But say this about the GC?

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Yep a lot of people forget that Southport Sharks is the biggest Aussie rules club north of the Barassi line and not in the AFL, plus have produced a lot of AFL players such as Marcus Ashcroft, Nick Riewoldt, Dayne Beams, Dayne Zorko, Andrew Raines, Daniel Merrett, Lachie Weller etc.

Fun fact, both Lions and Broncos captains are originally Gold Coast boys
 

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Really Mug?

You take shots at anyone who has an outside opinion about Tassie.
But say this about the GC?

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Having a shot? Whats wrong with what I said?. Its not a personal attack. I mean how is it simply bad luck when people have consistently not supported those clubs? What else is one supposed to say. GC has had 7 years. It did have the Bears so people aren't strangers to the AFL. This is their 2nd go at it!!!!!

People talk about 'generational change. Well the GC had their first team over 20 years ago & had regular games played their for a while then AFL footy at the 'Gabba only an hour away. So what happened to that generation?

The aim is people to support their club through thick & thin. If the 'thin' years mean a $20 million handout each year, that must be of serious concern. At least people in Melbourne put their own money in the tins when Richmond et all run into trouble.

Here we were told to 'support' the games to get a team, Now when we drop off the FIFO crap the Melbourne media heads etc attack us. FKEM.
 

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Having a shot? Whats wrong with what I said?. Its not a personal attack. I mean how is it simply bad luck when people have consistently not supported those clubs? What else is one supposed to say. GC has had 7 years. It did have the Bears so people aren't strangers to the AFL. This is their 2nd go at it!!!!!

People talk about 'generational change. Well the GC had their first team over 20 years ago & had regular games played their for a while then AFL footy at the 'Gabba only an hour away. So what happened to that generation?

The aim is people to support their club through thick & thin. If the 'thin' years mean a $20 million handout each year, that must be of serious concern. At least people in Melbourne put their own money in the tins when Richmond et all run into trouble.

Here we were told to 'support' the games to get a team, Now when we drop off the FIFO crap the Melbourne media heads etc attack us. FKEM.
By that same admission no one has supported tassie teams in sports (current bbl excl)

Should that mean no future tassie team? Of course not.

Saying Brisbane Bears were a GC team is like saying North or Hawthorn are a Tassie team.

GC (As well as the Giants) are generational as they are new with vast junior setups that will show in a generations time.

Mug you are getting to the stage where you see any weakness in a cub, anywhere, and you leap on that as an excuse to push that club out.

If you mean fkem to the Melbourne media then all for it.

To the Suns? Nah.




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sherb

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By that same admission no one has supported tassie teams in sports (current bbl excl)

Should that mean no future tassie team? Of course not.

Saying Brisbane Bears were a GC team is like saying North or Hawthorn are a Tassie team.

GC (As well as the Giants) are generational as they are new with vast junior setups that will show in a generations time.

Mug you are getting to the stage where you see any weakness in a cub, anywhere, and you leap on that as an excuse to push that club out.

If you mean fkem to the Melbourne media then all for it.

To the Suns? Nah.

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Not really, Carrara was their full-time home ground for many years, that's different to North and Hawthorn.

They were basically calling themselves Brisbane, but playing out of the Gold Coast. One thing which I thought at the time didn't help their cause......
 
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We do need to keep in mind all the sporting clubs that have failed on the Gold Coast have been all privately owned, the suns aren't. Gold Coast back in 2014 showed if they get it right will work, there crowds are still strong all be it inflated by travelling supporters.
 

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I lived in the Gold Coast not long ago, no actual GC resident goes to the beach in winter (except the ones that recently migrate from Vic or Tas). Every club that has failed has done so because either the club or league had been poorly run:
- The original Gold Coast NSWRL/ARL/NRL team were forced to originally play games in Tweed (which is in NSW) due to contractual obligations, and when they finally moved to the actual Gold Coast the whole Super League war happened (which saw a lot of RL clubs across the country fold or merge)
- The Brisbane Bears were always going to eventually play at the Gabba, Carrara was always intended to be a temporary arrangement until the Gabba greyhound track and Skase was gone.
- The NBL had been incredibly poorly run when the Blaze folded. At one point the NBL actually had NO teams in Sydney AND Brisbane.
- Clive Palmer thought putting in a crowd cap of 5000 to save on hiring costs was a good idea for GCU, before that they were drawing in decent crowds
- Titans actually had the second biggest home crowd averages in their first few seasons in the NRL when they were competitive.
- The Suns were getting good crowds in early 2014 when they looked like making finals.

Apart from parts of NSW that are near the VIC/SA border and pockets of North Sydney (as people there follow the Swans out of spite because the North Sydney Bears are gone), the Gold Coast is the closest split to a 50/50 AFL/NRL city, due to the mass migration of people from Victoria/SA/Tas. Obviously most of those people won't change teams, but the AFL's goal is to get their kids to become Suns supporters. Most of their supporters are kids, it's why they get better crowds to afternoon and twilight home games than night home games and it's why they wear a bright red jumper. AFL folding the Suns or NRL folding the Titans would be suicidal.
Exactly. It's a little like when you talk to people from Canberra and they'll tell you if the AFL put a team there 35 years ago it would be the number 1 sport but that ship has sailed. In 2050 this may be one of the best moves the AFL have made and done at the perfect time.
 

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Exactly. It's a little like when you talk to people from Canberra and they'll tell you if the AFL put a team there 35 years ago it would be the number 1 sport but that ship has sailed. In 2050 this may be one of the best moves the AFL have made and done at the perfect time.
IMO they were a few years late in expanding to the GC, should have been done just after the threepeat era
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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We do need to keep in mind all the sporting clubs that have failed on the Gold Coast have been all privately owned, the suns aren't. Gold Coast back in 2014 showed if they get it right will work, there crowds are still strong all be it inflated by travelling supporters.
Pretty sure they are privately owned.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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No AFL team is privately owned.
Might want to check that. The AFL sold the licence to a private consortium of local business people, asI said I'm pretty sure. Not in the Edelsten or Skase mold perhaps it still private. Sure there's a GC fan who can confirm the details.
We are effectively under direct AFL administration although the board necessarily acts independently.
The same for the Swans.
 

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Might want to check that. The AFL sold the licence to a private consortium of local business people, asI said I'm pretty sure. Not in the Edelsten or Skase mold perhaps it still private. Sure there's a GC fan who can confirm the details.
We are effectively under direct AFL administration although the board necessarily acts independently.
The same for the Swans.
Nope, You may be confused with the Titans

The swans members currently elect 2 of their board members is my understanding. Also I’m pretty sure the swans board itself has the power to go to full member based board elections

Giants board is fully appointed. Constitutionally I’m pretty sure it is a club with one voting member (the afl commission)
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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Nope, You may be confused with the Titans

The swans members currently elect 2 of their board members is my understanding. Also I’m pretty sure the swans board itself has the power to go to full member based board elections

Giants board is fully appointed. Constitutionally I’m pretty sure it is a club with one voting member (the afl commission)
Nope.
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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Nope, You may be confused with the Titans

The swans members currently elect 2 of their board members is my understanding. Also I’m pretty sure the swans board itself has the power to go to full member based board elections

Giants board is fully appointed. Constitutionally I’m pretty sure it is a club with one voting member (the afl commission)
I'll expand. Firstly who are theTitans?

Both the Swans constitution and ours allow for the board to be elected by "The Member" ie the AFL as the the sole voting member.
Both constitutions have provisions for the clubs to become owned by their membership, but neither have moved to activate it.
It's possible the AFL could decide to conduct elections among their members for board positions I guess. I cant find any reference to it though.
 

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Might want to check that. The AFL sold the licence to a private consortium of local business people, asI said I'm pretty sure. Not in the Edelsten or Skase mold perhaps it still private. Sure there's a GC fan who can confirm the details.
We are effectively under direct AFL administration although the board necessarily acts independently.
The same for the Swans.
You're wrong.

The AFL appoints the board of the Swans, Giants and Suns, with the Swans members appointing 2 ( see also Adelaide and Port Adelaide).

In all cases, the boards operate relatively independently.
 
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I'll expand. Firstly who are theTitans?

Both the Swans constitution and ours allow for the board to be elected by "The Member" ie the AFL as the the sole voting member.
Both constitutions have provisions for the clubs to become owned by their membership, but neither have moved to activate it.
It's possible the AFL could decide to conduct elections among their members for board positions I guess. I cant find any reference to it though.
The Swans members currently have two member elected board members. But please keep making yourself look stupid
 

Isaac Cumming No 1

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You're wrong.

The AFL appoints the board of both the Swans, Giants and Suns, with the Swans members appointing 2.
I get you're the expert. I have read the constitutions though. I have a strange fascination with legal documents.
I never disputed the AFL appoints our board and the Swans. I do recall the Suns and a private consortium mentioned in the press.. I used the words pretty sure and I was. You've straightened it out and genuinely tks.
With the Swans constitution having the AFL as the sole voting member I assume they "Delegate" this to the Swans members via election as I suggested as possible?
 
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