Goodwin Captain

[relapse]

So the players in our leadership group arent good leaders???

Nah I know what he means, he means that you should/can still be a leader down at the club even if your not in the leadership group ie someone else could have been appointed as a long term captain while Goody still could have been just as much of a leader on the field.

 

[- PC -]

I just get confused when the club makes a comment that they are now looking into the future, yet they appoint Goodwin as captain who has 1-2 seasons of good footy left in him.

I think NikkiNoo explained it best , and there are 2 trains of thought , and really its all probables and possibilities so we can only look back in hindsight

The club ( or players) felt that with the influx of new faces it was appropriate to have an established player as Captain. Yes it might be tokenism but I dont think it is unearned.

 

[relapse]

I think NikkiNoo explained it best , and there are 2 trains of thought , and really its all probables and possibilities so we can only look back in hindsight

The club ( or players) felt that with the influx of new faces it was appropriate to have an established player as Captain. Yes it might be tokenism but I dont think it is unearned.

I agree that Goody has earnt it, but I would have thought having a younger squad that there would be have been more merit in appointing a younger "long term" captain

The club has had a couple of years to prepare for Roo's departure and I cant help feeling like this decision displays a sign of a lack of long term planning by now appointing a transitional captain. Having a 30+ only leadership group was a huge mistake last year.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Why then the VB love from Adelaide fans? Is it because he is truly an emerging star, or the reality we havent got many 21 and under players going well. I fear the latter, hope I'm wrong

jarmanagic, the others have answered this pretty well but I would also like to add about why vB has my love.

Brisbane game 2005 at the gabba. Last quarter, we hadn't won up there in so long and the last game was the shellacking we copped in 2004. The game was tight all night, it poured with rain from start to finish and then the ball was there on the wing, Mal Michael was bearing down on it and vB did not flinch one bit in contesting for that ball.

The impact broke his collarbone. Any other player would be writhing on the ground in pain, but no, vB sees the ball spill free so he grabs it and fires off a handpass and then runs off the ground straight away to the bench.

After the game, in the circle singing the club song, his arm in a sling, you couldn't wipe the smile off his face. There is a great photo of this moment around.

That's why we love him, he will give his all for our footy club.

That is why I see him as the next captain and also in his three years at our club he has been in every leadership group that it is possible to be in. He was voted into the 'crushers' leadership group, for both the years he was a 'crusher. Then when he moved into the backboners group, he was voted into their leadership group last year. Not bad for a 20 year old!


ST also mentioned how good he is with the fans. My little cousin, after one of the games wanted autographs of the players in the Shed. So I took him to that area and told him who the players were as they came up to sign his footy record and what they had done in the game etc. There was vB, arm in sling, hadn't played games in a while and walking along the fence signing things for people.
My little cousin, who can be a little blunt at the best of time asked him what he had done to his arm and if it hurts. He then blurted out that he races go karts, so what does vB do? He could have made one polite comment and then moved on, as he had already signed things for my cousin. But no, he stopped and asked him a couple of questions about it. That is how good he is with the fans and especially the younger ones and gets a big from me.

 

[-CG-]

jarmanagic, the others have answered this pretty well but I would also like to add about why vB has my love.

Brisbane game 2005 at the gabba. Last quarter, we hadn't won up there in so long and the last game was the shellacking we copped in 2004. The game was tight all night, it poured with rain from start to finish and then the ball was there on the wing, Mal Michael was bearing down on it and vB did not flinch one bit in contesting for that ball.

The impact broke his collarbone. Any other player would be writhing on the ground in pain, but no, vB sees the ball spill free so he grabs it and fires off a handpass and then runs off the ground straight away to the bench.

After the game, in the circle singing the club song, his arm in a sling, you couldn't wipe the smile off his face. There is a great photo of this moment around.

That's why we love him, he will give his all for our footy club.

I'm pretty sure it was 2006, Round 11

 

[NikkiNoo]

thanks crow*girl - that's the one I was talking about. I was at that game too, so I should have remembered

 

[Alex99]

So the players in our leadership group arent good leaders???

Of course they are but management or leadership roles should never be restricted to someone with an ‘official title’.

Can you honestly say Tony Armstrong, Jarrah Jackie or Jared Petrenko will not seek out Andrew McLeod as a mentor or someone to seek advice from time to time? Of course they will and this is being a leader outside the leadership group.

He will set an example on the training track how to prepare himself, his work ethic and training habits will be monitored by theses 3 young indigenous lads and he would understand this reasonability.

IMO Andrew McLeod is a quality human being who would do this as a member of the club anyway and not just for indigenous player.

 

[Vader]

I would like to start by congratulating ALL members of the leadership group. In particular, I would like to congratulate VB, Goody and Rutten.

Goodwin is thoroughly deserving of the captaincy, IMO he was the only logical choice. He's our best midfielder, one of our best players, there were no other candidates who can bring everything he brings to the position.

VB joins the group at the tender age of 21, with just 53 games to his credit. I would not be the least bit surprised if he is captain before playing his 100th game (Goodwin surely has no more than 2 years remaining). The thing I love best about VB is his courage - you NEVER see him shirk a contest, no matter who is bearing down on him. That's something you want to see in your leaders.

Rutten returns to the group after a year's absence. Without a doubt he's the general of the back line.

What I do find a bit disturbing is the fact that there are so few younger members of the group. Goodwin, Edwards & Bassett are all 30+, while Burton is 29. Rutten & VB (24 & 21 respectively) are the only younger members of the group.

I would have liked to have seen Reilly and/or Thompson in the group as well. These guys are the future of our midfield and they are the players who should be groomed for leadership positions NOW. For the record, I would have replaced Bassett & Burton from the selected group.

This is not to question the methods by which the group made their selection. I'm not privvy to the internal workings of the club and I trust that the players had valid reasons for making the decisions that they did.

 

[jarmanagic]

jarmanagic, the others have answered this pretty well but I would also like to add about why vB has my love.

Brisbane game 2005 at the gabba. Last quarter, we hadn't won up there in so long and the last game was the shellacking we copped in 2004. The game was tight all night, it poured with rain from start to finish and then the ball was there on the wing, Mal Michael was bearing down on it and vB did not flinch one bit in contesting for that ball.

The impact broke his collarbone. Any other player would be writhing on the ground in pain, but no, vB sees the ball spill free so he grabs it and fires off a handpass and then runs off the ground straight away to the bench.

After the game, in the circle singing the club song, his arm in a sling, you couldn't wipe the smile off his face. There is a great photo of this moment around.

That's why we love him, he will give his all for our footy club.

That is why I see him as the next captain and also in his three years at our club he has been in every leadership group that it is possible to be in. He was voted into the 'crushers' leadership group, for both the years he was a 'crusher. Then when he moved into the backboners group, he was voted into their leadership group last year. Not bad for a 20 year old!


ST also mentioned how good he is with the fans. My little cousin, after one of the games wanted autographs of the players in the Shed. So I took him to that area and told him who the players were as they came up to sign his footy record and what they had done in the game etc. There was vB, arm in sling, hadn't played games in a while and walking along the fence signing things for people.
My little cousin, who can be a little blunt at the best of time asked him what he had done to his arm and if it hurts. He then blurted out that he races go karts, so what does vB do? He could have made one polite comment and then moved on, as he had already signed things for my cousin. But no, he stopped and asked him a couple of questions about it. That is how good he is with the fans and especially the younger ones and gets a big from me.

I remember that, I agree it was outstanding. I'm not for one second questioning his bravery, work ethic, committment to the club and I think his development is going very well and he had a good 2007. For a bloke drafted in the mid 20's going very well

but I do think on performance he is a little overated by our fans.And of course putting your body on the line is great but never saw Torney shirk an issue and we rewarded him by cutting him. Similar with Huddo really he was also brave

I think Knights and Porpylzia will be stars

I think VB will be a salt of the earth 200 gamer in the Bickley/Stenglein mode. Which is really good and important, but the VB love is a bit over the top for mine so far. Just an opinion

 

[Mad Dog]

Interesting to have a look at the experience profile of the list – and provide possible rationale for those who “missed out”.

Let me start by saying I’m fine with the makeup of the leadership group and it is probably the ideal “first year” group for what is going to be a transitional 3 year period.

If you break our squad in two (in terms of most to least experienced) – ie player 1 to 20 and 21 to 40…..Jason Porplyzia leads the 21 to 40 group in terms of experience.....

The bottom 20 players have only 90 AFC games between them – very inexperienced, it would be difficult to argue leaders would come from this group – in fact given the shallowness of this group in terms of experience….what is needed in the first year of this transition period is more mature leadership if anything.

Of the Top 20 players….6 are in the leadership group, 2 are probably not ready, 3 are future leaders, and an argument could be made excusing the remaining 9.

1 Andrew McLeod ---283 games--- Has no leadership asperations
2 Tyson Edwards ---266
3 Simon Goodwin ---215
4 Nathan Bassett ---187
5 Brett Burton ---151
6 Ken McGregor ---145--- Not a long term prospect / in and out of the side
7 Rhett Biglands ---134--- Possibly last year
8 Graham Johncock ---126--- ??
9 Robert Shirley ---119--- in and out of the side
10 Michael Doughty ---119--- in and out of the side
11 Brent Reilly ---85--- ??
12 Ben Rutten ---80
13 Kris Massie ---76--- last year / in and out of the side
14 Scott Thompson ---70--- ??
15 Nathan Bock ---63--- injuries?
16 Trent Hentschel ---61--- injuries?
17 Scott Stevens ---54--- in and out of the side
18 Nathan van Berlo ---53
19 Chris Knights ---34--- Not ready
20 Luke Jericho ---26--- 26 games in 5 years - nuff said


From this list – I think that only Johncock, Reilly, and Thompson could feel unlucky – but IMO there is no question that as the Edwards’, Bassetts’ Burtons drop off (*waves to Ayresy*), these guys will come in. Thompson is obviously doing his penance, as may be Johncock – but I think these three guys will figure prominently as the list evolves over the next couple of years.

IMO – the mix is right

 

[NikkiNoo]

I remember that, I agree it was outstanding. I'm not for one second questioning his bravery, work ethic, committment to the club and I think his development is going very well and he had a good 2007. For a bloke drafted in the mid 20's going very well

but I do think on performance he is a little overated by our fans.And of course putting your body on the line is great but never saw Torney shirk an issue and we rewarded him by cutting him. Similar with Huddo really he was also brave

I think Knights and Porpylzia will be stars

I think VB will be a salt of the earth 200 gamer in the Bickley/Stenglein mode. Which is really good and important, but the VB love is a bit over the top for mine so far. Just an opinion

Stenglein has just been named in West Coasts Leadership group (they use a very similar system to us). He was earmarked as a future captain when at this club, so to compare vB to Stenglein and to our two time premiership captain is a nice comparision

Huddo was brave on the field and a good honest toiler at the best of times but off the field was an immature so and so (ask the players down at North Adelaide, they liked him but he was immature and didn't know when to stop the jokes).

Torney was in our Leadership group - nuff said.

I think Knights is one that will move into our leadership group in the next few years.

Porplyzia - has the same issues that Reilly faced early on. A very shy lad naturally who has to work hard to overcome that shyness. I think Reilly has blossomed into a leader on the track and on the field and like Knights I can see him moving into the Leadership group over the next years.

 

[Vader]

If you break our squad in two (in terms of most to least experienced) – ie player 1 to 20 and 21 to 40…..Jason Porplyzia leads the 21 to 40 group in terms of experience.....

The bottom 20 players have only 90 AFC games between them – very inexperienced, it would be difficult to argue leaders would come from this group – in fact given the shallowness of this group in terms of experience….what is needed in the first year of this transition period is more mature leadership if anything.

To be fair, 11 of the bottom 20 players have yet to debut. Of those 11, 7 were drafted this year, 4 last year (Tippett, MacKay, Sellar, Gallman). Campbell, Moran & Gill have each played less than 10 games. Those 90 games are split between only 9 players - with Porps accounting for almost 1/3 of them (26 games).

I do agree that this group would not be expected to provide any members of the leadership group.

VB is remarkable for the fact that he's the first player drafted since Craig became coach (ending Ayres' drafting horrors) to join the leadership group.

Of the Top 20 players….6 are in the leadership group, 2 are probably not ready, 3 are future leaders, and an argument could be made excusing the remaining 9.

1 Andrew McLeod ---283 games--- Has no leadership asperations
2 Tyson Edwards ---266
3 Simon Goodwin ---215
4 Nathan Bassett ---187
5 Brett Burton ---151
6 Ken McGregor ---145--- Not a long term prospect / in and out of the side
7 Rhett Biglands ---134--- Possibly last year
8 Graham Johncock ---126--- ??
9 Robert Shirley ---119--- in and out of the side
10 Michael Doughty ---119--- in and out of the side
11 Brent Reilly ---85--- ??
12 Ben Rutten ---80
13 Kris Massie ---76--- last year / in and out of the side
14 Scott Thompson ---70--- ??
15 Nathan Bock ---63--- injuries?
16 Trent Hentschel ---61--- injuries?
17 Scott Stevens ---54--- in and out of the side
18 Nathan van Berlo ---53
19 Chris Knights ---34--- Not ready
20 Luke Jericho ---26--- 26 games in 5 years - nuff said


From this list – I think that only Johncock, Reilly, and Thompson could feel unlucky – but IMO there is no question that as the Edwards’, Bassetts’ Burtons drop off (*waves to Ayresy*), these guys will come in. Thompson is obviously doing his penance, as may be Johncock – but I think these three guys will figure prominently as the list evolves over the next couple of years.

IMO – the mix is right

Great analysis there.

As I said in my previous post, I would have liked to have seen Reilly & Thompson in the group. Thompson is probably paying penance for his car crash, not sure why Reilly didn't make the cut.

 

[Allefgib]

Interesting to have a look at the experience profile of the list – and provide possible rationale for those who “missed out”.

Let me start by saying I’m fine with the makeup of the leadership group and it is probably the ideal “first year” group for what is going to be a transitional 3 year period.

If you break our squad in two (in terms of most to least experienced) – ie player 1 to 20 and 21 to 40…..Jason Porplyzia leads the 21 to 40 group in terms of experience.....

The bottom 20 players have only 90 AFC games between them – very inexperienced, it would be difficult to argue leaders would come from this group – in fact given the shallowness of this group in terms of experience….what is needed in the first year of this transition period is more mature leadership if anything.

Of the Top 20 players….6 are in the leadership group, 2 are probably not ready, 3 are future leaders, and an argument could be made excusing the remaining 9.

1 Andrew McLeod ---283 games--- Has no leadership asperations
2 Tyson Edwards ---266
3 Simon Goodwin ---215
4 Nathan Bassett ---187
5 Brett Burton ---151
6 Ken McGregor ---145--- Not a long term prospect / in and out of the side
7 Rhett Biglands ---134--- Possibly last year
8 Graham Johncock ---126--- ??
9 Robert Shirley ---119--- in and out of the side
10 Michael Doughty ---119--- in and out of the side
11 Brent Reilly ---85--- ??
12 Ben Rutten ---80
13 Kris Massie ---76--- last year / in and out of the side
14 Scott Thompson ---70--- ??
15 Nathan Bock ---63--- injuries?
16 Trent Hentschel ---61--- injuries?
17 Scott Stevens ---54--- in and out of the side
18 Nathan van Berlo ---53
19 Chris Knights ---34--- Not ready
20 Luke Jericho ---26--- 26 games in 5 years - nuff said


From this list – I think that only Johncock, Reilly, and Thompson could feel unlucky – but IMO there is no question that as the Edwards’, Bassetts’ Burtons drop off (*waves to Ayresy*), these guys will come in. Thompson is obviously doing his penance, as may be Johncock – but I think these three guys will figure prominently as the list evolves over the next couple of years.

IMO – the mix is right

v good analysis. also really highlights the transistion phase we are in!

 

[Mismatched]

Great analysis there.

As I said in my previous post, I would have liked to have seen Reilly & Thompson in the group. Thompson is probably paying penance for his car crash, not sure why Reilly didn't make the cut.

I think in terms of Reilly, they would like to see him put a full year together on the field before he makes it into the leadership group, at the moment i fell thats the only thing that has held him back.

As for the actual make up, I think now more than ever we need some real experienced leaders in the side to instruct the youngsters. Over the past few years we have had an older, more experienced side which would probably lead itself in many respects. Now that a lot of those experienced backbone players are gone, to be replaced by youngsters, we definitely need a strong leader who has the respect of not just the playing group, but of the entire footballing community, especially since there was no "outstanding" long-term candidate like a Ricciuto or Bickley like there was the past few times.

Now more than ever we need our more experienced players to stand up and show the way. The title of leader I feel should be earned, not just given away so that someone can serve an "apprenticship", the players and coaches obviously believe that this 6 deserve the job and they'd be the ones to know.

 

[J-Ro-20]

Does anyone here agree that if Stenglein didn't leave he would have been announced captain for 08?

I was talking to a mad crows supporter here at work and she thinks Stenglein would have been the next captain, & I tend to agree with her.

Don't get me wrong Goodwin is a gun and will make a fantastic captain.

 

[srv23]

I must admit a while ago I also felt that appointing Goody as captain (who is without a doubt a well deserving captain) would be the wrong move when we are clearly in rebuilding mode. But the more I have thought about it I reckon in the next couple of years when we are likely to be blooding lots of youngsters and having a very young team out there, having an experienced well respected guy like Goody as captain will be invaluable.

It's pretty clear from the announcement of the leadership group that VB has been pencilled in as our next captain as long as he continues to develop as he has. I think he's a fantastic choice, his work ethic on and off the field is exceptional, he's an extremely intelligent young lad and he's clearly extremely well respected by the other players. But right now he's just beginning to establish himself as a quality AFL player, he's cementing himself in our starting 22 and has improved immensely in 2007. Giving Goody the captaincy allows VB to continue to focus on his footy while serving an apprenticeship in the leadership group. Then when Goody retires in 2-3 years we'll have a bloke with exceptional leadership qualities on and off the field who is pushing 100 games - a perfect time to take over the captaincy of an up and coming young side who'll be pushing for premierships around that time. Should be exciting! Hopefully VB will be our second premiership captain (Well I'd love Goody to be but just being realistic!)

 

[- PC -]

I must admit a while ago I also felt that appointing Goody as captain (who is without a doubt a well deserving captain) would be the wrong move when we are clearly in rebuilding mode. But the more I have thought about it I reckon in the next couple of years when we are likely to be blooding lots of youngsters and having a very young team out there, having an experienced well respected guy like Goody as captain will be invaluable.

As much as I wanted Rutten I agree with this, as does NikkiNoo ( not sure on the Rutten ) about the need for stability and experience

It's pretty clear from the announcement of the leadership group that VB has been pencilled in as our next captain as long as he continues to develop as he has. I think he's a fantastic choice, his work ethic on and off the field is exceptional, he's an extremely intelligent young lad and he's clearly extremely well respected by the other players. But right now he's just beginning to establish himself as a quality AFL player, he's cementing himself in our starting 22 and has improved immensely in 2007. Giving Goody the captaincy allows VB to continue to focus on his footy while serving an apprenticeship in the leadership group. Then when Goody retires in 2-3 years we'll have a bloke with exceptional leadership qualities on and off the field who is pushing 100 games - a perfect time to take over the captaincy of an up and coming young side who'll be pushing for premierships around that time. Should be exciting! Hopefully VB will be our second premiership captain (Well I'd love Goody to be but just being realistic!)

While I am a fan of VB I am a bigger fan of Ruttens, saying that I would have no issue with NVB being named the next captain of the AFC

(welcome to the board ,good post)

 

[crowsup]

I am very new here but I hope I'm allowed to make some contribution to this thread without running the risk of being shot down in flames.

It is my opinion that we should not be too harsh in judging the decision made by the players and the club in the selection of the leadership group.
Unless some of us happen to know each individual player as well as the players themselves know each other, we should not criticise their judgement. I' m also pretty sure that, even though the club may have given the players the right to vote in their leadership group, the club would have given the players the 'criteria' they would need to use when voting for their preferred leaders. I know I am not very much 'IN' with the club, but I would be very surprised if any of you (except NikkiNoo - maybe-) could tell me what the criteria is.

 

[Mad Dog]

welcome to srv23 and crowsup - always good to hear new perspectives

 

[Mad Dog]

I am very new here but I hope I'm allowed to make some contribution to this thread without running the risk of being shot down in flames.

It is my opinion that we should not be too harsh in judging the decision made by the players and the club in the selection of the leadership group.
Unless some of us happen to know each individual player as well as the players themselves know each other, we should not criticise their judgement. I' m also pretty sure that, even though the club may have given the players the right to vote in their leadership group, the club would have given the players the 'criteria' they would need to use when voting for their preferred leaders. I know I am not very much 'IN' with the club, but I would be very surprised if any of you (except NikkiNoo - maybe-) could tell me what the criteria is.

most of us like to have a stab at what we think is happening at the club - and in reality - most of us do have a pretty good insight to at least some aspect of the club in part. There are a lot of "experts" here on younger players, tactics, fitness, etc etc.......so the key is to take a bit from everyone to form a holistic view.

 

[FlyingCrow]

My "inisde (outside)" view is that Goody was picked as an interim, ie only 2- 3 years, captain. Waiting for VB to develop.

 

[crowsup]

welcome to srv23 and crowsup - always good to hear new perspectives

Thanks for the welcome

 

[NikkiNoo]

I know I am not very much 'IN' with the club, but I would be very surprised if any of you (except NikkiNoo - maybe-) could tell me what the criteria is.

Welcome aboard crowsup and srv23.

Hate to burst your bubble but I am not that 'in' with the club - I just tend to listen to a lot of the interviews quite closely, read all the articles and talk with many other supporters. That's where most of my information comes from. It's amazing what can be picked up in interviews from what hasn't been said more so than what they do say... The leadership within the club has been a particular interest of mine over the past couple of years so I suppose I tend to notice discussion from the club on those details a little more carefully than others may have done.

But thanks for the mention.

 

[crowsup]

most of us like to have a stab at what we think is happening at the club - and in reality - most of us do have a pretty good insight to at least some aspect of the club in part. There are a lot of "experts" here on younger players, tactics, fitness, etc etc.......so the key is to take a bit from everyone to form a holistic view.

Agree with you entirely. In the last week I have read most if not all of the posts submitted in the last 4-6 weeks. I came to the conclusion that this forum has a very rich knowledge bank. I will definitely continue reading and hopefully make some positive contributions every now and then.

 

[srv23]

Thanks for the welcome guys!
Hope I can make some sort of contribution to the board and will continue to enjoy reading these forums.