Goodwin Captain

[Campbell's Chunky]

2. I know Scott Thompson made a mistake in the off season (Goody's made 1 or 2 also) but he demonstrated great on field leadership in 07, 18 Brownlow votes, miles ahead of VB for mine as a leader

Is that really what captains should be measured on?

I think theres more to it than performance.

Why players like Richie V from the Hawks get the job with full support behind them.

 

[crowman_23]

Is that really what captains should be measured on?

I think theres more to it than performance.

Why players like Richie V from the Hawks get the job with full support behind them.

And look at all the controversy his captaincy caused. While I agree there is a lot more to it than performance, it is something that also needs to be pretty high. One of Roo's best qualities was his ability to deliver out on the gorund when we needed it most. You need someone who can stand up out there and lead the way. While van Berlo may be able to do it in years to come, IMO he can't just yet, having said that, I support his place in the leadership group.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Why players like Richie V from the Hawks get the job with full support behind them.

Or, lets use a more Crows related example...

Mark Bickley never won a Brownlow. I defy anyone to tell me he wasnt a great Crows captain though.

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

And look at all the controversy his captaincy caused. While I agree there is a lot more to it than performance, it is something that also needs to be pretty high. One of Roo's best qualities was his ability to deliver out on the gorund when we needed it most. You need someone who can stand up out there and lead the way. While van Berlo may be able to do it in years to come, IMO he can't just yet, having said that, I support his place in the leadership group.

Yeh, its obviously a component, but I'm a firm believer your captain could probably be taken out of your top 5, even 10 players performance wise, based on mainly your leadership ability and I guess how lucky you are in terms of how old you are at the time.

 

[Southerntakeover]

This likely to be controversial but I think Van Berlo's elevation to the leadership group is premature. He might be a future captain but has he really earned it yet? 2 and a bit years of senior football, about 50 games, I cant recall more than 1 really outstanding one (v Chad Cornes last showdown)

2 things

1. I think on performance we vastly overrate him. I think he will be a good AFL players, play 200 games but there are many 21 year olds of similar quality in the AFL. I'm all for him becoming a star don't get me wrong, but he is a long way off that yet. Knights better in 07 (in a different role)

2. I know Scott Thompson made a mistake in the off season (Goody's made 1 or 2 also) but he demonstrated great on field leadership in 07, 18 Brownlow votes, miles ahead of VB for mine as a leader

The players voted for it.

If the players A) think van Berlo deserves it and B) dont think a different player deserves it, who are we to argue? They are the ones on the field. I think they know better than we who the leaders are.

Besides, van Berlo is already a leader at the club. Just have a look at some of the pre-season comments that have been made, such as Gallman wanting to mimick him, or Rendell using him as the measuring stick for one of the new rookies. Theres noone at the club who outperforms van Berlo on the training track. People notice that.

Oh yeah, and the club disagrees with you re: who was better in 2007, van Berlo or Knights. Check their best and fairest finishes.

 

[KUNG FU]

Tom Harley was almost just as controversial. However, you would like to believe that your captain will be in the first 22 every week for the rest of the season, if not the career. I'm pretty sure VB has his spot cemented for life, but if any doubt arises over the next few years, he won't be given the captaincy, simple as that.

 

[crowman_23]

Yeh, its obviously a component, but I'm a firm believer your captain could probably be taken out of your top 5, even 10 players performance wise, based on mainly your leadership ability and I guess how lucky you are in terms of how old you are at the time.

Yeah I agree with top 5. The captain still needs to be one of the first pencilled in the side each week, where in the example of Vandenberg, was struggling to make the top 22.

 

[jarmanagic]

The players voted for it.

If the players A) think van Berlo deserves it and B) dont think a different player deserves it, who are we to argue? They are the ones on the field. I think they know better than we who the leaders are.

Besides, van Berlo is already a leader at the club. Just have a look at some of the pre-season comments that have been made, such as Gallman wanting to mimick him, or Rendell using him as the measuring stick for one of the new rookies. Theres noone at the club who outperforms van Berlo on the training track. People notice that.

Oh yeah, and the club disagrees with you re: who was better in 2007, van Berlo or Knights. Check their best and fairest finishes.

yes the players voted for it, doesnt make it right. Mcleod not there yet a great leader, captain of the All Stars, All Australian captain, perhaps the best Aboriginal player ever and still playing great football. Why not? How could VB be ahead of him on anything except he is younger. But you should earn this honour

As for B&F bit rich to use that as a definite measure dont you think?

Re other comments, I agree Bickley good example but he was about 27 years old when appointed. If your captain is not in your best 5 (VB isnt yet, might not ever be... hope he is one day) it creates trouble Adcock, Taylor in cricket, Richie V from day 1

What has Thommo done wrong apart from one off field incident? Havent Goody, Edwards etc had their issues off field? He seems a natural leader for mine

 

[Alex99]

Or, lets use a more Crows related example...

Mark Bickley never won a Brownlow. I defy anyone to tell me he wasnt a great Crows captain though.

This is why the best player in the side isn’t automatically made captain. Mark Bickley was a great captain for the AFC but (no disrespect to him) was far from our best player.

From my POV the captain need to inspire his peer not necessarily be the best.

 

[Southerntakeover]

yes the players voted for it, doesnt make it right. Mcleod not there yet a great leader, captain of the All Stars, All Australian captain, perhaps the best Aboriginal player ever and still playing great football. Why not? How could VB be ahead of him on anything except he is younger. But you should earn this honour

As for B&F bit rich to use that as a definite measure dont you think?

Re other comments, I agree Bickley good example but he was about 27 years old when appointed. If your captain is not in your best 5 (VB isnt yet, might not ever be... hope he is one day) it creates trouble Adcock, Taylor in cricket, Richie V from day 1

What has Thommo done wrong apart from one off field incident? Havent Goody, Edwards etc had their issues off field? He seems a natural leader for mine

It is completely ridiculous for you to try to suggest that you know who the team leaders are better than the players who actually play the games. Thommo may seem a natural leader to you, but the fact is, the team views van Berlo as a leader. If he has the respect of the playing group, theres very little grounds to complain here IMO.

McLeod, if i remember correctly, doesnt even want to be in the leadership group anymore. Meanwhile he has a running fued with another player in the team. Enough said on that matter.

No, i dont think using the B&F is rich at all. I think its a very good measure of how the club thinks you performed. In my eyes is a far better measure than Brownlow votes, as its able to take into account the actual role you played, as the ones voting are the coaches etc. who know exactly what instructions you were given. There are few better measures which i know of.

Whats Thommo done wrong? What makes you think hes done anything wrong? Perhaps hes simply not one of the guys the players view as their leader. No huge issue there.

 

[Southerntakeover]

This is why the best player in the side isn’t automatically made captain. Mark Bickley was a great captain for the AFC but (no disrespect to him) was far from our best player.

From my POV the captain need to inspire his peer not necessarily be the best.

I agree completely. The captain doesnt need to be the flashiest player to inspire his teammates. A great captain is one who puts his body on the line for the team IMO, the one guy you know will never be compromised in his attack on the game.

 

[FlyingCrow]

Well done Goody.


Good to see Edwards back in the Group too.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Good to see Edwards back in the Group too.

Dont think he ever left?

 

[Alex99]

Well done Goody.


Good to see Edwards back in the Group too.

Did he leave?

Forgive me if i am wrong but he never left the leadership group did he? wasn't that Burton (2006) and Rutten (2007).

 

[jarmanagic]

It is completely ridiculous for you to try to suggest that you know who the team leaders are better than the players who actually play the games. Thommo may seem a natural leader to you, but the fact is, the team views van Berlo as a leader. If he has the respect of the playing group, theres very little grounds to complain here IMO.

McLeod, if i remember correctly, doesnt even want to be in the leadership group anymore. Meanwhile he has a running fued with another player in the team. Enough said on that matter.

No, i dont think using the B&F is rich at all. I think its a very good measure of how the club thinks you performed. In my eyes is a far better measure than Brownlow votes, as its able to take into account the actual role you played, as the ones voting are the coaches etc. who know exactly what instructions you were given. There are few better measures which i know of.

Whats Thommo done wrong? What makes you think hes done anything wrong? Perhaps hes simply not one of the guys the players view as their leader. No huge issue there.

do you really think Macca doesnt want to be in the leadership group?

I agree I'm in no position to judge leadership, and the players are. Doesnt mean I cant disagree though. I thought the players decision to ban Huddo for 1 game was ridiculous. Did you? Their decision

 

[Southerntakeover]

do you really think Macca doesnt want to be in the leadership group?

I agree I'm in no position to judge leadership, and the players are. Doesnt mean I cant disagree though. I thought the players decision to ban Huddo for 1 game was ridiculous. Did you? Their decision

No i didnt. I thought it was ridiculous for Huddo, an older player to knowingly break the rules. Then again with whats come out afterwards, he seems like a peckerhead to me.

As far as Macca goes... he seems a fairly reserved type to me. Not sure if hed want to be the clubs spokesman or whatever. Either way, its a non issue as far as im concerned, as he seemed to do pretty well last year without being in the leadership group.

 

[jarmanagic]

No i didnt. I thought it was ridiculous for Huddo, an older player to knowingly break the rules. Then again with whats come out afterwards, he seems like a peckerhead to me.

As far as Macca goes... he seems a fairly reserved type to me. Not sure if hed want to be the clubs spokesman or whatever. Either way, its a non issue as far as im concerned, as he seemed to do pretty well last year without being in the leadership group.

let me ask 1 last Q then, but I'll start with a statement. I want VB to play 300 games, become a star, multiple AA etc. That would be great

However at the moment I see a solid hard working 50 gamer, respected by all, hard worker, not likely to be an exceptional player, more Stenglein like (who is good but not great) I see Knights and Porps as more likely to be stars than VB

Why then the VB love from Adelaide fans? Is it because he is truly an emerging star, or the reality we havent got many 21 and under players going well. I fear the latter, hope I'm wrong

 

[Southerntakeover]

let me ask 1 last Q then, but I'll start with a statement. I want VB to play 300 games, become a star, multiple AA etc. That would be great

However at the moment I see a solid hard working 50 gamer, respected by all, hard worker, not likely to be an exceptional player, more Stenglein like (who is good but not great) I see Knights and Porps as more likely to be stars than VB

Why then the VB love from Adelaide fans? Is it because he is truly an emerging star, or the reality we havent got many 21 and under players going well. I fear the latter, hope I'm wrong

van Berlo embodies everything i like about the Adelaide Football Club. Hes a hard worker who would literally sacrifice his body for the club... hes done it before, and will do it again. Hes smart, super fit, and handles himself perfectly off the field. Ontop of this, he is one of the best guys at interacting with the fans. If you go to the shed after a game, you'll always see vB there, and he'll always sign autographs, have a chat etc. He's always one of the last ones to leave. Genuinely a good bloke. Why exactly wouldnt fans like a guy like this?

As far as his on field prospects... the guys the youngest person i can remember to play 50 games for the Crows. People seriously underestimate how much improvement this guy has left in him. Heres a third year player who finished top 10 in the best and fairest this year, and during this off season has both bulked up, and run personal bests on the track. On the field he is still developing. He has increased his average disposals per game from 7 in his debut season, to 14 last year, to just under 20 this year. If he can continue to make similiar improvements, he will be a top notch player.

Want me to go on? I can talk all day here...

 

[Kahuna_202]

van Berlo embodies everything i like about the Adelaide Football Club. Hes a hard worker who would literally sacrifice his body for the club... hes done it before, and will do it again. Hes smart, super fit, and handles himself perfectly off the field. Ontop of this, he is one of the best guys at interacting with the fans. If you go to the shed after a game, you'll always see vB there, and he'll always sign autographs, have a chat etc. He's always one of the last ones to leave. Genuinely a good bloke. Why exactly wouldnt fans like a guy like this?

As far as his on field prospects... the guys the youngest person i can remember to play 50 games for the Crows. People seriously underestimate how much improvement this guy has left in him. Heres a third year player who finished top 10 in the best and fairest this year, and during this off season has both bulked up, and run personal bests on the track. On the field he is still developing. He has increased his average disposals per game from 7 in his debut season, to 14 last year, to just under 20 this year. If he can continue to make similiar improvements, he will be a top notch player.

Want me to go on? I can talk all day here...

Totally agree with everything there. He may or may not be a brownlow medalist or an absolute star, but as long as he is putting in consistent performances each week im happy. You just have to have a look at how much he dedicates his life to football. As ST said above, his work ethic in improving his fitness and game to ensure he can be the fittest, strongest and best player he can be is exactly what you want. I'd be concerned if we were'nt rewarding players for doing what VB does for the AFC.

 

[Crow-mo]

so we can't offer a 30yr player a 2 yr contract, but we can offer him the captaincy?

 

[Drummond]

van Berlo embodies everything i like about the Adelaide Football Club. Hes a hard worker who would literally sacrifice his body for the club... hes done it before, and will do it again. Hes smart, super fit, and handles himself perfectly off the field. Ontop of this, he is one of the best guys at interacting with the fans. If you go to the shed after a game, you'll always see vB there, and he'll always sign autographs, have a chat etc. He's always one of the last ones to leave. Genuinely a good bloke. Why exactly wouldnt fans like a guy like this?

As far as his on field prospects... the guys the youngest person i can remember to play 50 games for the Crows. People seriously underestimate how much improvement this guy has left in him. Heres a third year player who finished top 10 in the best and fairest this year, and during this off season has both bulked up, and run personal bests on the track. On the field he is still developing. He has increased his average disposals per game from 7 in his debut season, to 14 last year, to just under 20 this year. If he can continue to make similiar improvements, he will be a top notch player.

Want me to go on? I can talk all day here...

We don't agree often but you are 100% correct on this one.

VB is only 21, has already racked up 50+ games, and already has a top 10 B&F finish. As you said, some people are underestimating how much improvement is left in his game. Early this year he still hadn’t cracked the 20 possession barrier and yet he almost averaged this many disposals per game this season. He improved a heck of a lot this year and is now, along with Knights, the standout youngster on our list. He’s always appearing on FiveAA, is the hardest worker on the track and is continuously putting his body on the line. With the announcement that he’ll be in the leadership group I think there’s little doubt that he will be the next long term captain of the AFC.

As for Goodwin being captain, it’s a fantastic decision. He’s one of the best midfielders in the league and has been a terrific player for this club over many years. Well done Simon.

One last thing; I can’t help but feel a little bit disappointed for Reilly.

 

[macca23]

:

One last thing; I can’t help but feel a little bit disappointed for Reilly.

Very good point there Drummond.

He should have been there instead of Burton IMO.

Still, that's the way the votes went, and overall they got it pretty right, including our captain in waiting, young VB.

 

[maccas_no1]

A good leader doesn’t need a title

So the players in our leadership group arent good leaders???

 

[- PC -]

So the players in our leadership group arent good leaders???

Yes they are...there are also good leaders outside the group.

 

[relapse]

Firstly congrats to Simon, but I dont honestly see the logic behind giving a 31 year old the captaincy I was hoping the Tony McGuinness token gesture captaincy was a once off.

I just get confused when the club makes a comment that they are now looking into the future, yet they appoint Goodwin as captain who has 1-2 seasons of good footy left in him.