Autopsy Hawks: 30 minutes not enough for 4 points...

[crazywildhorse]

Unfortunately I don’t think the whole game plan we aimed for can work with all of Burgoyne, Rioli and Puopolo out of the side. Langford should have played as a forward pressurer—if that’s a position, but that’s hindsight.

Burton is way off it, probably needs a “where’s he at” thread.

 

[RIOLINWITPUNCHS]

Does anyone have a theory on why we go missing for so long in games?

1st half against Richmond, 1st qtr against Dees, 1st half today.

I just don't get it.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Cue the homesick rumours.. maybe we should start discussing possible trade options with Crows or Power

Ollie Wines thanks

 

[Luv_our_club]

Does anyone have a theory on why we go missing for so long in games?

1st half against Richmond, 1st qtr against Dees, 1st half today.

I just don't get it.

i don't think we cope well with pressure.

Demons could do it for 20 minutes.
North for a half.
Tigers all day.

Today, every time we got the ball in the first half, i would look up and say "shit" because there was nothing to kick to. In the second half, there were clear options everywhere. North's pressure dropped off completely.

 

[Arc1]

I really dislike North but they are a reasonable team and they have a crack. A couple years ago they were showing signs of being flag material, and it’s probably very disappointing for their fans that they missed a window where two pretty ordinary sides have won a premiership.

It was good to see Clarko acknowledge North in the presser including the big wrap for Cunnington. I also liked how realistic he was about how these games happen and how Brad Scott will be having the same issue along the way. Always feel with Clarko that we have the absolute best possible at the helm.

(Unlike the keyboard warriors cutting loose in here... it’s amazing how everyone looks crap when the other team is on fire, isn’t it?)

Oh and big points for the umpires today, that McEvoy non-mark was so funny it completely transcended the game state and cheered me up.

 

[Spursfan]

Does anyone have a theory on why we go missing for so long in games?

1st half against Richmond, 1st qtr against Dees, 1st half today.

I just don't get it.

We're no longer a top team. We will fluctuate game to game , quarter to quarter like about 75% of the comp

 

[Burtman]

I know we’ve always been a poor contested marking team but geez today it was more pathetic than usual. We have no one up forward for a get out kick and only Sicily down back that can take an intercept. We got destroyed in the air all game. We really need to throw the kitchen sink at lynch or hope to god that Mitch Lewis can come on and be a dominating big forward, Cause our spine is horrendous and is only going to get worse

 

[Luv_our_club]

We're no longer a top team. We will fluctuate game to game , quarter to quarter like about 75% of the comp

i agree. Also, in the past our possession game of kick and mark was excellent at wresting back momentum by denying the opposition the ball. Now it seems only having more effort gets it back.

 

[Spursfan]

I really dislike North but they are a reasonable team and they have a crack. A couple years ago they were showing signs of being flag material, and it’s probably very disappointing for their fans that they missed a window where two pretty ordinary sides have won a premiership.

It was good to see Clarko acknowledge North in the presser including the big wrap for Cunnington. I also liked how realistic he was about how these games happen and how Brad Scott will be having the same issue along the way. Always feel with Clarko that we have the absolute best possible at the helm.

(Unlike the keyboard warriors cutting loose in here... it’s amazing how everyone looks crap when the other team is on fire, isn’t it?)

Oh and big points for the umpires today, that McEvoy non-mark was so funny it completely transcended the game state and cheered me up.

Just saw that McEvoy mark. That umpire needs to be read the rule book or sacked. You pay man in front when both players have equal purchase on it, not when the guy in front gets fingertips on it FFS

 

[Jaeger]

Scott thinks that was the best they've played in his time there. They've got to a few prelims under him.

Perhaps we got them enjoying a day out. Doesn't excuse our first half but maybe no one would have beaten them today.

 

[Spursfan]

I know we’ve always been a poor contested marking team but geez today it was more pathetic than usual. We have no one up forward for a get out kick and only Sicily down back that can take an intercept. We got destroyed in the air all game. We really need to throw the kitchen sink at lynch or hope to god that Mitch Lewis can come on and be a dominating big forward, Cause our spine is horrendous and is only going to get worse

We really need to invest in new KP stocks, preferably from inside in the first round of the draft. Admittedly I have seen very little of Mitch Lewis at BH and go by posters reports on BF, but the odds of a pick 75 KP player making it doesn't fill me with confidence.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

This is crazy, sorry.

Are you talking about one game? If so, very harsh. Roughy was positioned very well for marking contests then the ball would drop in the favor of his defender. Happened at least 4 times, which is a lot considering how few balls went his way.

Obviously we won't drop Roughy. Even out of form he is our best key forward by quite a margin.

Agree also that there were plenty of kicks that didn't favour him or he was outnumbered - it is hard as no other talls command a presence and drag key defenders away from Roughy who had Tarrant and Daw in plenty of contests.

Having said that, Roughy was still poor. Even when he got a 1 on 1 he was beaten more often than not and was very fumbly. Perhaps the worst was when we were coming hard in the 3rd and towards the end of the quarter a shot at goal was squared up to an unmanned Roughy to make sure of the 6 points. He completely spilled the mark from a perfect kick all on his own, the ball clears and the Hawks have to work their backs off to get it back again where another Roughy fumbled handball restricts another scoring opportunity. A 2-3 goal margin at the end of the 3rd would have been a very different equation in the last given how much was spent in the 3rd. It wasn't just the missed goal but the extra energy sapping efforts required to get the ball back.

Rough was equally poor in Round 1 though and bounced back hard. Regardless, we need to working toward a post Roughy plan and whilst we have him - play to his strengths. He is not someone to keep bombing it to (unless he is on Guthrie ). He is best used on the lead or with low balls - cos his ground level work is superior to the KPD's he plays on and he will give or tap to the advatage of a team mate (if he doesn't mark) which is a far better result than the 3rd tall taking an easy mark.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Obviously we won't drop Roughy. Even out of form he is our best key forward by quite a margin.

Agree also that there were plenty of kicks that didn't favour him or he was outnumbered - it is hard as no other talls command a presence and drag key defenders away from Roughy who had Tarrant and Daw in plenty of contests.

Having said that, Roughy was still poor. Even when he got a 1 on 1 he was beaten more often than not and was very fumbly. Perhaps the worst was when we were coming hard in the 3rd and towards the end of the quarter a shot at goal was squared up to an unmanned Roughy to make sure of the 6 points. He completely spilled the mark from a perfect kick all on his own, the ball clears and the Hawks have to work their backs off to get it back again where another Roughy fumbled handball restricts another scoring opportunity. A 2-3 goal margin at the end of the 3rd would have been a very different equation in the last given how much was spent in the 3rd. It wasn't just the missed goal but the extra energy sapping efforts required to get the ball back.

Rough was equally poor in Round 1 though and bounced back hard. Regardless, we need to working toward a post Roughy plan and whilst we have him - play to his strengths. He is not someone to keep bombing it to (unless he is on Guthrie ). He is best used on the lead or with low balls - cos his ground level work is superior to the KPD's he plays on and he will give or tap to the advatage of a team mate (if he doesn't mark) which is a far better result than the 3rd tall taking an easy mark.

Agree the dropped mark was poor - obviously.
Agree we need a post-Roughy strategy.
I haven't yet watched the telecast, so he may have been more disappointing than i know.
But i think Roughy is still a one-on-one beast in the marking contest.


and...

I am not trying to be controversial, but i thought the game from Bruest was a very average 5 goal performance. Except for his exquisite kicking for goal, most of his chances came from perfect play up the field and delivery. He provided little noticeable pressure, and wasn't his normal creative threat. He is perhaps my favorite Hawk, so i`m glad he has got the 5... pure class.

 

[lickmerocks]

Cousins doesn't have to handball it though, was poor in every sense.
The funny thing was Duryea had the North player stone cold in the air and could have waltzed
around him straight into goal. Instead kicked it out of bounds.

Agree, but you have a young kid that has just been hit lace out from a Breust missile.... let the kid settle and show us what he is made of.

Speaking of poor awareness, Doc got mowed down by Majak as we were streaming forward after two kangaroos were knocked out cold.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

AND there you have it a Neutral supporter saying it. Brand wasn't the difference today we got slaughtered in the middle in the first half

And how did we get slaughtered in the middle. By one Goldstein. I get really annoyed here by posters who do not understand the value of a good tap ruckman. Oh they're too slow. Small players run off them. The side would be better with no rucks. Blah blah blah.

BB is a very good ruck but his real strength is his marking.

A quality tap ruck is worth his weight in gold.

I heard a rumour somewhere that some ruck got 56 hit outs yesterday. I wonder who that was.

 

[Arc1]

Just saw that McEvoy mark. That umpire needs to be read the rule book or sacked. You pay man in front when both players have equal purchase on it, not when the guy in front gets fingertips on it FFS

Classic example of no matter how many umpires you put on the field, sometimes they still just make it up based on what they thought might have happened.
Given McEvoy clearly got hold of it at the same time and had it for far longer and brought it to ground, I suspect what really happened was the ump saw McEvoy going to fly and knew it would be a case of needing to pay the man in front. Brains are good at ignoring actual inputs in favour of expected inputs, so I don't think it's anything to get too excited about... ridiculous result, but that's the game I suppose.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Agree the dropped mark was poor - obviously.
Agree we need a post-Roughy strategy.
I haven't yet watched the telecast, so he may have been more disappointing than i know.
But i think Roughy is still a one-on-one beast in the marking contest.


and...

I am not trying to be controversial, but i thought the game from Bruest was a very average 5 goal performance. Except for his exquisite kicking for goal, most of his chances came from perfect play up the field and delivery. He provided little noticeable pressure, and wasn't his normal creative threat. He is perhaps my favorite Hawk, so i`m glad he has got the 5... pure class.

In the first 4 weeks, Breust's goals have just been the icing on the cake as he has been winning contests, tackling hard, etc.

Today there was less of the other stuff and just the actual goals kicked. But he did manage to lead at the right times, find space in the forward 50, take marks cleanly and kick very well - which no one else managed at all. Still a very good forward's game (but yes, less pressuring and less creating than past weeks) and very noteworthy because game's like that are usually the type of games where small forwards have no impact at all. He did also have a very nice pick up and give at the bottom of a pack which Gunston goalled when we couldn't buy a goal in the first half.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Agree, but you have a young kid that has just been hit lace out from a Breust missile.... let the kid settle and show us what he is made of.

Speaking of poor awareness, Doc got mowed down by Majak as we were streaming forward after two kangaroos were knocked out cold.

The blind-side tackle can happen to anyone, like Sicily last week. It is extremely annoying, but you have to forgive him for that one, even if it drives you crazy.

 

[Luv_our_club]

And how did we get slaughtered in the middle. By one Goldstein. I get really annoyed here by posters who do not understand the value of a good tap ruckman. Oh they're too slow. Small players run off them. The side would be better with no rucks. Blah blah blah.

BB is a very good ruck but his real strength is his marking.

A quality tap ruck is worth his weight in gold.

I heard a rumour somewhere that some ruck got 56 hit outs yesterday. I wonder who that was.

it was Pittonet - first!


Re Goldstein.... it would not be a traditional Hawthorn loss unless we played an opposition player back into form.

 

[becalm]

I thought Frawley killed Brown after you stopped letting us waltz the ball into our forward line. Reckon Chip beat him in 90% of the aerial contests after 1/4 time which no other defender has done in about two years now.

That can't be right. Just ask some of our supporters.

 

[becalm]

I said pre game Mirra will be a 100 game player for us....I take that back....Duryea Mirra Obrien and Howe ...time to give orourke and Mitchell lewis a run and drop a few of them

Gee I hope JOR gets a game soon so we can find out if he can play. Some on here seen to think he is the answer, I hope he is but getting 36 possessions against the bottom side in the VFL doesn't make him a champion.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

It was the loss we needed before finals.

 

[Davo23]

Fair enough how boring these forums would be if we all shared identical opinions..

But this is how the forum works:

1. Roughie has a bad game: Gene Simmons posts how useless Roughie has always been.

2. Roughie has a good game:
Gene Simmons: ... crickets ...



.

 

[Mrzohs]

Just got home from the match and the result is not really surprising to me. Our first issue was at selection and that became evident early on when Brown was given a free run at the ball with no one going with him. Frawley actually did a decent job after half time but the damage was well and truly done as our other defenders were found gravitating to every contest he was in and left the likes of Ziebell to crumb without any pressure. In contrast, Roughead I thought was one of our worst today. Dropped an absolute sitter, refused to lead up and offered little pressure when the ball came to ground. Not sure if he's carrying an injury but he was way off his best as a forward.
North setup a game plan to counter our back of the square run and it worked well for them but one thing that really hurt us (and we were guilty of it against the Tiges also) was that we were easily drawn to the ball allowing North to clear over the top without any pressure or implied pressure. The first half was bloody frustrating to watch this happen time and time again. Full credit to North for executing the plan and exposing us, I suspect they watched some of the tape of the Richmond game and took some notes because the similarities watching were strikingly obvious.
The move of Hardwick forward didn't work and I felt it really weakened our defence. This comes back to selection for mine, it seemed to be an admission that we'd gone into the game with one fewer forward than we needed. Obviously Hardwick has a background as a forward but its always been in defence where he has stood up for us. We got hurt badly in the first half with him being forward. A marking target would have been handy for us forward, whether that be Schoey or a Lewis type.

Positives:

• Breust was very good, worked his ass off and applied pressure all game.
• Third quarter was much improved.
• Sicily was very good, still cops a lot off the ball without being rewarded.
• Thought Impey tried hard all game and ran his ass off.

Negatives:

• O'Brien was basically unsighted
• Burton really didn't offer us anything
• Pressure in the first half was pathetic
• Midfield got smashed as a whole. No one put their hand up in the middle.

It's definitely a sign of a young middle of the table side when you have halves of football like we did. The consistency is not there and hopefully we can come out next week in a more manic style and play a much better brand of football. Mitchell was apparently reported (haven't seen this, was overheard in the crowd) so that'll make it even more difficult next week if that doesn't go our way.

I agree with the midfield and burton. Spot on. These things happen when you have 4 or 5 of your best players out in a rebuilding side. It's a worry our tall marking option center half forward and center half back . I have no answers in this aera.
I would like to see 1 more seasoned body in the middle like whitx or orourke.

 

[Spursfan]

The blind-side tackle can happen to anyone, like Sicily last week. It is extremely annoying, but you have to forgive him for that one, even if it drives you crazy.

True it can happen to anyone, though Duryea is that anyone more than most