Preview Hawks vs Lions – Rd 13 - Sat 10th June – 1:45pm – MCG

[Thomasno]

I’m convinced the people saying Gardiner played “putrid” last week didn’t watch the game. He was fine, not a patch on Andrews or Payne sure, but he was certainly much better than most of his efforts last year. Did a pretty good job all things considered for first game back against probably the best forward line in the competition.

Said it before but I’ll say it again, I feel a lot of people forget just how good he was in 2019/2020. If he’s not battling injury anymore, I have faith he’ll get back to that level.

 

[martinson]

Fwiiw if Dizz gets his body right he's someone you want in the team in high pressure games because he's disciplined ,is a team first player and is capable of doing a job on one of the opposition's better forwards.

He's been riddled with injury for a while now. Needs to show he's fit and not break down again and he deserves 3 or 4 games to see if he can get there.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I’m convinced the people saying Gardiner played “putrid” last week didn’t watch the game. He was fine, not a patch on Andrews or Payne sure, but he was certainly much better than most of his efforts last year. Did a pretty good job all things considered for first game back against probably the best forward line in the competition.

Said it before but I’ll say it again, I feel a lot of people forget just how good he was in 2019/2020. If he’s not battling injury anymore, I have faith he’ll get back to that level.

I hope you are right but his good seasons are disappearing from the rear view mirror.
I like Gardiner because when we were crap he played like it meant something to him. Much like Mitch R.
We have depth which means competent players miss.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Rubbish.

None of us have an insight into Match Committee - there will be good reasons as to why the changes were made. Whether the plans work is another matter. Whilst I'm surprised that Coleman has been dropped, I agree with the sentiment that he looks a bit off physically (and therefore sub may make sense).



Gardiner wasn't putrid. Lester cost us two goals. I don't hate on Lester, but Gardiner didn't do anything to deserve to be dropped, and for mine, is higher up the pecking order, all things being equal, than Lester.

Gardiner had 8 disposals, had 2 tackles for the game and 7 pressure acts.

Lester had 10 disposals, 4 tackles and 14 pressure acts. Lester had more disposals and doubled Gardiner’s tackles and pressure acts.

 

[dlanod]

Gardiner had 8 disposals, had 2 tackles for the game and 7 pressure acts.

Lester had 10 disposals, 4 tackles and 14 pressure acts. Lester had more disposals and doubled Gardiner’s tackles and pressure acts.

Gardiner obviously needs to let his player get the ball more to bump up those tackles and pressure acts.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Gardiner obviously needs to let his player get the ball more to bump up those tackles and pressure acts.

Nah, he just needs to tackle and chase and smother and spoil. Same with Rich, who is a defender who has only managed two tackles for the year. Rich won’t chase and won’t do the hard pressure defensive acts that we need.

 

[Denno]

Gardiner had 8 disposals, had 2 tackles for the game and 7 pressure acts.

Lester had 10 disposals, 4 tackles and 14 pressure acts. Lester had more disposals and doubled Gardiner’s tackles and pressure acts.

Blah blah blah. More to the game than stats in isolation.

Lester cost us 2 goals. Gardiner was solid.

I'll say again, Gardiner, IMO, is higher up the pecking order, so when fit, deserves to be in front. For mine, he offers more flexibility, and hence gets the gig. Agree with some previous comments - people have clearly forgotten what level he's played at in recent years (again, when fit).

If he starts to battle, different story.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Blah blah blah. More to the game than stats in isolation.

Lester cost us 2 goals. Gardiner was solid.

I'll say again, Gardiner, IMO, is higher up the pecking order, so when fit, deserves to be in front. For mine, he offers more flexibility, and hence gets the gig. Agree with some previous comments - people have clearly forgotten what level he's played at in recent years (again, when fit).

If he starts to battle, different story.

Gardiner had one disposal in the first half and a statistics free second quarter. Let’s see how he goes then.

 

[KissKiss]

Gardiner had 8 disposals, had 2 tackles for the game and 7 pressure acts.

Lester had 10 disposals, 4 tackles and 14 pressure acts. Lester had more disposals and doubled Gardiner’s tackles and pressure acts.

Lester did make two bad mistakes though. While Gardiner was quieter but didnt really make mistakes.

Also tackle numbers have not been a major relevant stat for tall defenders for some time. Its not really their job.

Either way we had to drop one and neither deserved it.

 

[Nathan Barley]

My sincerest sympathies to 3KZ, these will be tough times for him.

#

I think it's probably the opposite. More opportunities to talk nonsense

 

[KissKiss]

Gardiner had one disposal in the first half and a statistics free second quarter. Let’s see how he goes then.

Disposal numbers are in no way a measure of a tall backs game.

I do admit I have loved the rebound that Lester has been giving recently, but its a bonus.

A backman can have zero possessions if they completely shut out a great forward and that could still be a great game

 

[martinson]

The problem fringe players like Froggy have is that when he coughs it up twice like he did last week it always gets highlighted. Ah Chee ,Matho, spring to mind . As soon as something doesn't go their way it's all we hear about. Richy is starting to find himself in that revered space where your errors get micro analysed.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I think it's probably the opposite. More opportunities to talk nonsense

Back in your box Shirley.

 

[martinson]

One thing I really would've liked to see was Fort as a marking target at the G. Someone who can sit a bit deep and take a grab there is a big weapon. Always has been. Seen so many second string ruckmen who weren't any great players kick 4 or 5 there over the years.

 

[jjami15]

Fwiiw if Dizz gets his body right he's someone you want in the team in high pressure games because he's disciplined ,is a team first player and is capable of doing a job on one of the opposition's better forwards.

He's been riddled with injury for a while now. Needs to show he's fit and not break down again and he deserves 3 or 4 games to see if he can get there.

hmmm, he does love to give away some silly frees, not sure if that is disciplined.

 

[jjami15]

Lester did make two bad mistakes though. While Gardiner was quieter but didnt really make mistakes.

Also tackle numbers have not been a major relevant stat for tall defenders for some time. Its not really their job.

Either way we had to drop one and neither deserved it.

Lucky Rich isn't a tall defender then.

 

[Dalions]

One thing I really would've liked to see was Fort as a marking target at the G. Someone who can sit a bit deep and take a grab there is a big weapon. Always has been. Seen so many second string ruckmen who weren't any great players kick 4 or 5 there over the years.

Lot of space for a leading forward to lead into as well.

 

[buttermuffs]

Nah, he just needs to tackle and chase and smother and spoil. Same with Rich, who is a defender who has only managed two tackles for the year. Rich won’t chase and won’t do the hard pressure defensive acts that we need.

I’m pretty sure smothers and spoils aren’t counted under pressure acts. I believe that is one percenters. At least for spoils.


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[martinson]

Lot of space for a leading forward to lead into as well.

We shall see won't we. Saturday should be the day if he still can.

 

[scott_the_man]

Gardiner had 8 disposals, had 2 tackles for the game and 7 pressure acts.

Lester had 10 disposals, 4 tackles and 14 pressure acts. Lester had more disposals and doubled Gardiner’s tackles and pressure acts.

Gardiner is not the type to rack up possessions and tackles. His job is to shut down his man. A better metric would be to look at contests won, spoils, intercepts, goals against etc.. which he generally does well at.

 

[Nunez]

Bless 3KZ is Football for finally giving us a selection melt.

 

[martinson]

There's no question if he's fit and able to contest as he can Dizz is someone you want in your team.

We've given him 3 or 4 years haven't we ?? so I'd like to see him get back near his best.

 

[martinson]

Bless 3KZ is Football for finally giving us a selection melt.

He hasn't melted . This is a restrained and measured response from 3KZ.

You've got to look at both sides of the argument. 3KZ makes some good points and it's not completely improbable that he's wrong.

Froggy isn't that much worse (or better) than Dizz or Richy on anything impartially analysed in Senior games this year.

I'm no great Froggy fan but tbh it's line ball if the other 2 can't bring their right form.

 

[buttermuffs]

Lester did make two bad mistakes though. While Gardiner was quieter but didnt really make mistakes.

Also tackle numbers have not been a major relevant stat for tall defenders for some time. Its not really their job.

Either way we had to drop one and neither deserved it.

I said something similar with Joyce, when it comes to being role player it’s more impactful to not make mistakes rather than making an impact in other ways. Neither Lester nor Gardiner are even close to being locks in the team and we very well would probably see Lester again if Gardiner can’t stay consistent.

Either way changes were made and they dropped someone who we probably all thought was safe (because we all know that this team isn’t known for wholesale changes) in Kiddy. We have Dev and Prior back in after Answerth and Sharp had some runs in the team. It’s far from the tough (and subjective) calls people make here about some of the older players but let’s not be doomers.


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[Nunez]

He hasn't melted . This is a restrained and measured response from 3KZ.

You've got to look at both sides of the argument. 3KZ makes some good points and it's not completely improbable that he's wrong.

Froggy isn't that much worse (or better) than Dizz or Richy on anything impartially analysed in Senior games this year.

I'm no great Froggy fan but tbh it's line ball if the other 2 can't bring their right form.

Dizzy can play on talls to smalls, Frog can play on mediums and smalls.

Rich is a rebounding half back. Frog is not.

You're right in that they'd want to be playing their role to hold their spots, but let's not pretend Lester offers the same as Rich and Dizzy. Love the guy but suggesting he does is supporter bias.