News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[Dewnior]

I guess the "No player name speculation" can now be removed from the thread title.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hopefully I’m allowed to post here.

The summary dismissal application was made by 2/3 coaches and the hawthorn football club.

It’s pretty telling that the hawthorn football club has made this application isn’t it?

Ha! Let’s just play dumb as to who the coach was that was trying to get it dismissed, eh.

 

[the big lebowski]

Ha! Let’s just play dumb as to who the coach was that was trying to get it dismissed, eh.

As you saying the Hawthorn Football Club didn’t just recently sign and lodge a petition to the HRC requesting that the case be dismissed?

 

[DogDaySonny]

The application to dismiss was based on time passed since the alleged incidents occurred. That was dismissed (correctly I think as many abuse victims dont report things quickly), the finding doesn't mean anything in relation to the valdiidty of the claims.

Fagan isn't in the clear, his lawyers probably were just smarter and knew the application was pointless and looked a little desperate.

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Surely it was the normal motion to dismiss that starts every forum. The HRC isn't a judiciary body, it's a mediation forum so short of some outrageous new insight (like that someone is on tape admitting to making the whole thing up or perhaps admitting to all the accusations) then it's going to mediation. I would be willing to bet that 90%+ of cases that go to the HRC start with a motion to dismiss of some sort and that 99%+ of those are rejected.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

As you saying the Hawthorn Football Club didn’t just recently sign and lodge a petition to the HRC requesting that the case be dismissed?

I’m telling you your little game of “I’ll just pretend Clarko didn’t do the exact same thing” is really ******* stupid.

 

[Philhawk]

I do think it’s pretty appalling the club tried to get it dismissed.

 

[pattymalone00]

 

[Hawker55]

Cyril was in town - Brad Hill put a post up with him. I hope this went well.

 

[Off The Couch]

AFL would be pissed that it’s happening at the beginning of the season

 

[HedgeFund]

AFL would be pissed that it’s happening at the beginning of the season

They have no control over it.

That’s the thing that will be pissing them off most.

 

[Dewnior]

AFL would be pissed that it’s happening at the beginning of the season

F$ck them

 

[tommyk72]

Really good step forward. Hoping this meeting will be the start of a pathway that trends positive. Good on all parties for agreeing to meet.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Really good step forward. Hoping this meeting will be the start of a pathway that trends positive. Good on all parties for agreeing to meet.

Should have happened 2 years ago.

 

[tommyk72]

Should have happened 2 years ago.

As with anything, the passing of time, distance and different perspectives are an important step towards a change of attitudes.

 

[DogDaySonny]

It was the obvious step when this went to the Human Rights Council. It's a simple mediation session. 99.9% chance it resolves nothing as there is no chance Clarkson and Fagan concede being racist. And a similar small chance the players concede making a mountain out of a molehill.

My guess is there may be two or three of these and then it fizzles out to be ignored by everyone, finally under the carpet (that bastard Kennett commissioning the report in the first place and stirring up all this mess) possibly with some juice from Hawthorn membership fees. It will have run its run, garnering all the attention it will get and then everyone who decides what is a story will agree this isn't a story anymore.

I think there is almost zero chance that this will go to court because if there was a case to be made then it would have been filed already and there is less than zero chance that Clarkson's and Fagan's lawyers will let them say anything during mediation that would support a case.

 

[thehardway]

Really good step forward. Hoping this meeting will be the start of a pathway that trends positive. Good on all parties for agreeing to meet.

They had no choice. Once a complaint is made to the HRC, participation in conciliation is compulsory. Unlike the AFL's attempt at mediation where demands were made before agreeing to participate. This ultimately derailed the process as participation was not compulsory.

But yeah, hopefully there can be resolution to a terrible chapter in our club's history.

 

[DogDaySonny]

They had no choice. Once a complaint is made to the HRC, participation in conciliation is compulsory. Unlike the AFL's attempt at mediation where demands were made before agreeing to participate. This ultimately derailed the process as participation was not compulsory.

But yeah, hopefully there can be resolution to a terrible chapter in our club's history.

I just have to call up this point. No facts have been established. No opportunity to reply has been given. No one anywhere has been required to give a truthful statement, much less proven to have given one.

The only thing that has been established as terrible at this point is a farcical process designed to deliver damage control rather than insight. The only thing we have so far is a large group of pissed-off people, be they accused, accusers or club members who have all been (possibly) slandered with two-way accusations and innuendo.

How is any of this a terrible chapter in the club's history? We don't even know what, if anything, happened. Except for that Hawthorn administration apparently followed the letter of the AFL's racism complaints law but get trashed for doing that.

 

[thehardway]

I just have to call up this point. No facts have been established. No opportunity to reply has been given. No one anywhere has been required to give a truthful statement, much less proven to have given one.

The only thing that has been established as terrible at this point is a farcical process designed to deliver damage control rather than insight. The only thing we have so far is a large group of pissed-off people, be they accused, accusers or club members who have all been (possibly) slandered with two-way accusations and innuendo.

How is any of this a terrible chapter in the club's history? We don't even know what, if anything, happened. Except for that Hawthorn administration apparently followed the letter of the AFL's racism complaints law but get trashed for doing that.

All your points regarding the process are true. I have no view on the accusations as ultimately, I don't know. The whole thing has been a schemozzle. But regardless of the outcome it will have been a terrible chapter for the complainants, the accused, the club and many supporters.

 

[Steven Tyler]

(that bastard Kennett commissioning the report in the first place and stirring up all this mess)

Except for that Hawthorn administration apparently followed the letter of the AFL's racism complaints law but get trashed for doing that.

So which one is it?

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I just have to call up this point. No facts have been established. No opportunity to reply has been given. No one anywhere has been required to give a truthful statement, much less proven to have given one.

The only thing that has been established as terrible at this point is a farcical process designed to deliver damage control rather than insight. The only thing we have so far is a large group of pissed-off people, be they accused, accusers or club members who have all been (possibly) slandered with two-way accusations and innuendo.

How is any of this a terrible chapter in the club's history? We don't even know what, if anything, happened. Except for that Hawthorn administration apparently followed the letter of the AFL's racism complaints law but get trashed for doing that.

This is pretty much how I view it as well. I haven't commented much on the saga as I have no idea what to think. We are yet to be presented with any concrete evidence that the club has been negligent in any way, and we see some Hawthorn supporters ready to accept the allegations.

I can forgive the media because, well, they've never allowed any facts to interfere with a good story, and if you can stick it to a club, all the better. I was so annoyed the other day to hear one outlet "reporting" that Hawthorn "will" be paying out big time, and yet they still don't tell me why.

 

[DogDaySonny]

So which one is it?

The first should have been in orange sarcasm font. I'm almost certain that he followed the letter of the law. I'm less certain that he did it because he's law-abiding more so than he did it because he knew the process was cracked and would lead to exactly this shitshow.

 

[eldorado]

It was the obvious step when this went to the Human Rights Council. It's a simple mediation session. 99.9% chance it resolves nothing as there is no chance Clarkson and Fagan concede being racist. And a similar small chance the players concede making a mountain out of a molehill.

I'm more hopeful than this.

People who once shared a close relationship, who may all be regretting the way it has evolved, actually able to sit down face to face...it there is a skerrick of good will left, it may lead to actual open communication....if there were errors, miscommunications, misunderstandings, whatever.

I'm certainly more hopeful than I am with intermediaries, with possible agendas of blame and compensation at the forefront of their thinking, rather than re-establishing (or at least healing) relationships.

 

[TazHawk15]

As you saying the Hawthorn Football Club didn’t just recently sign and lodge a petition to the HRC requesting that the case be dismissed?

Why don’t you just worry about the “Shinbeggers” working on their next “Give us more draft picks” rort.

 

[DogDaySonny]

I'm more hopeful than this.

People who once shared a close relationship, who may all be regretting the way it has evolved, actually able to sit down face to face...it there is a skerrick of good will left, it may lead to actual open communication....if there were errors, miscommunications, misunderstandings, whatever.

I'm certainly more hopeful than I am with intermediaries, with possible agendas of blame and compensation at the forefront of their thinking, rather than re-establishing (or at least healing) relationships.

I hope you are right. In this age of outrage and counter-outrage, it seems we've lost any example of men simply shaking hands and calling it over. I guess I've become jaded. Once people start fighting it out in the media, and social media means that everyone can fight about everything, almost all hope for a mature resolution seems lost.

But here's hoping we see an inspirational result where once close people remember their history together and inspire us all with their maturity and grace.

 

[HedgeFund]

Should have happened 2 years ago.