News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[HedgeFund]

I just have to call up this point. No facts have been established. No opportunity to reply has been given. No one anywhere has been required to give a truthful statement, much less proven to have given one.

The only thing that has been established as terrible at this point is a farcical process designed to deliver damage control rather than insight. The only thing we have so far is a large group of pissed-off people, be they accused, accusers or club members who have all been (possibly) slandered with two-way accusations and innuendo.

How is any of this a terrible chapter in the club's history? We don't even know what, if anything, happened. Except for that Hawthorn administration apparently followed the letter of the AFL's racism complaints law but get trashed for doing that.

I agree that the club is probably the least culpable for this farce.

As for whether anyone has had an opportunity to put their case….You might want to read this, from the perspective of Jason Burt.

‘I’ve got nothing to say sorry for’: Jason Burt responds to Hawthorn allegations

Former Hawthorn welfare manager Jason Burt publicly addresses the allegations made against him for the first time, saying he is “bruised” and “hurt”. Burt slams the AFL and the Hawks for their handling of the saga.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Philhawk]

North Melbourne stalwart Phil Krakouer names AFL greats in racism lawsuit

A statement of claim is lodged in the Victorian Supreme Court alleging multiple AFL greats were among players who racially abused the Krakouer brother in the 1980s.

www.abc.net.au

More of this is going to happen unless more truth telling exercises are forced upon clubs to end these horrific chapters once and for all.

 

[MrPremiership]

North Melbourne stalwart Phil Krakouer names AFL greats in racism lawsuit

A statement of claim is lodged in the Victorian Supreme Court alleging multiple AFL greats were among players who racially abused the Krakouer brother in the 1980s.

www.abc.net.au

More of this is going to happen unless more truth telling exercises are forced upon clubs to end these horrific chapters once and for all.

strip them of their draft picks!!!

 

[brad sue well]

 

[pattymalone00]

 

[Stevie80]

I’m confused. Why are all parties after compensation? Why must the Hawks pay? If Clarko, Fagan and Burt were racist they should be held accountable. If the players/wives had made up stories then they should be accountable. Not sure I can see how Hawthorn is to blame for this. Just seems like all parties want a bit of cash at the expense of the Hawks.

 

[brad sue well]

Clarkson two days, Fagan one. https://pca.st/episode/9676ded1-fc46-4c1c-8b84-b65223e6f6ce

 

[Philhawk]

I’m confused. Why are all parties after compensation? Why must the Hawks pay? If Clarko, Fagan and Burt were racist they should be held accountable. If the players/wives had made up stories then they should be accountable. Not sure I can see how Hawthorn is to blame for this. Just seems like all parties want a bit of cash at the expense of the Hawks.

Because if proven to be true, what Clarkson and Fagan did was from a position of power at an organization that empowered them to do so. No different to a company paying compensation if an employee is abused by a manager.

 

[eldorado]

https://archive.is/nq4Fp

Hawkthorn?

 

[TheFourPillars]

https://archive.is/nq4Fp

Hawkthorn?

Now u know Mark robinsons been on bigfooty using material that is so often used here to troll teams

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

If we believe we the club and our coaches have done no wrong, I’ll be very upset as a paid member if we pay the accusers any money.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

If we believe we the club and our coaches have done no wrong, I’ll be very upset as a paid member if we pay the accusers any money.

I believe the club did no wrong, but some players felt the club did wrong...

 

[Rob R]

I’m confused. Why are all parties after compensation? Why must the Hawks pay? If Clarko, Fagan and Burt were racist they should be held accountable. If the players/wives had made up stories then they should be accountable. Not sure I can see how Hawthorn is to blame for this. Just seems like all parties want a bit of cash at the expense of the Hawks.

Because Hawthorn were the employer and engaged the review, so either way Hawthorn will get pressure to pay something.

Not that we will ever get to the truth given the time that has passed and with lawyers involved.

Of course if the AFL or Binmada employees were shown to have leaked the report then Hawthorn can claim money from them.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sixpence]

Because if proven to be true, what Clarkson and Fagan did was from a position of power at an organization that empowered them to do so. No different to a company paying compensation if an employee is abused by a manager.

Yes, but in that scenario the company doesn't also compensate the manager.

Kinda feels like the club should tell both parties to * off and deal with their issues with each other. At this point, the club has no ties to either party. I'm not ok with the club apologizing and taking blame if they're not actually responsible for any wrong doing.

 

[Bugs1977]

I believe the club did no wrong, but some players felt the club did wrong...

Because Hawthorn were the employer and engaged the review, so either way Hawthorn will get pressure to pay something.

Not that we will ever get to the truth given the time that has passed and with lawyers involved.

Of course if the AFL or Binmada employees were shown to have leaked the report then Hawthorn can claim money from them.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

You have players making allegations against people employed by the HFC so it really doesn't matter who wins this thing because either way the HFC will have to pay something which I assume explains why there's been money put aside for this. If the allegations are proven to be true then we'll have to compensate the players OR if the allegations can't be proven then we'll have to compensate the coaches. I'm sure there's also a scenario where we have to compensate both which will really be the only thing that would sh*t me. The common theme in all this is that no matter what is or isn't proven is that it all happened under the the watch of the HFC. We'll be eating the sh*t sandwich on this no matter the outcome so it's just a matter of how big the sandwich is.

 

[Philhawk]

IMO, this is a monumental week in the history of our club.

Yes, but in that scenario the company doesn't also compensate the manager.

Kinda feels like the club should tell both parties to * off and deal with their issues with each other. At this point, the club has no ties to either party. I'm not ok with the club apologizing and taking blame if they're not actually responsible for any wrong doing.

I am also strongly in the camp that Clarkson and others should receive no payout from us. Just the players.

Where I disagree is the comment that the club has no ties to either party - that’s incorrect. It happened while at the club.

 

[Sixpence]

IMO, this is a monumental week in the history of our club.




I am also strongly in the camp that Clarkson and others should receive no payout from us. Just the players.

Where I disagree is the comment that the club has no ties to either party - that’s incorrect. It happened while at the club.

Agree with all that, let me change that to "No current ties to the club".

 

[thehardway]

You have players making allegations against people employed by the HFC so it really doesn't matter who wins this thing because either way the HFC will have to pay something which I assume explains why there's been money put aside for this. If the allegations are proven to be true then we'll have to compensate the players OR if the allegations can't be proven then we'll have to compensate the coaches. I'm sure there's also a scenario where we have to compensate both which will really be the only thing that would sh*t me. The common theme in all this is that no matter what is or isn't proven is that it all happened under the the watch of the HFC. We'll be eating the sh*t sandwich on this no matter the outcome so it's just a matter of how big the sandwich is.

The HRC process isn't the forum to determine whether the allegations are true or not. A court can only do that. It is a conciliation process where frank and open discussions can take place and hopefully a resolution can be reached. It also should be noted that these discussions are confidential and are inadmissible in a court of law.

 

[smish]

I realistically can't see a good end to this for the HFC

 

[Yardie]

I realistically can't see a good end to this for the HFC

A good end is closure on the issue and ensuring we have improved mechanisms in place.

 

[lethalselbow]

AFL wants it all swept under a carpet and dealt with.

 

[Bugs1977]

The HRC process isn't the forum to determine whether the allegations are true or not. A court can only do that. It is a conciliation process where frank and open discussions can take place and hopefully a resolution can be reached. It also should be noted that these discussions are confidential and are inadmissible in a court of law.

I am fully aware of this but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that compensation isn't going to be paid

 

[Flukey!]

I am fully aware of this but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that compensation isn't going to be paid

if the club is proven to have wronged these people, then money is probably the only way it goes away.
We know the club has money allocated already for this happening.

 

[lethalselbow]

if the club is proven to have wronged these people, then money is probably the only way it goes away.
We know the club has money allocated already for this happening.

I reckon wronged or not wronged that money will be paid and the matter swept away without anything being tested in court.

 

[thehardway]

I reckon wronged or not wronged that money will be paid and the matter swept away without anything being tested in court.

The HRC conciliation process isn't about proving or disproving the allegations but it does appear the HFC is prepared to splash the cash to make it all go away. I'd rather it go to court where the allegations can be rigorously tested.