News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[brad sue well]

Do you have any evidence to support the Aboriginal claims? What makes you think they are telling the truth?

Indigenous families you mean. In anticipation of a tennis match of posts, I have written throughout this thread about it. I heard about this first hand some time ago, what is in public is very much what you are after as well. Cheers.

 

[brad sue well]

There could be many reasons, but it's not necessary to speculate. If you want to say something happened, prove it. I want to see the evidence.

As far as I can tell, brad sue well doesn't have any.

HS had stacks of info at the time. Primary source information.

Do you accept Newbold’s email was sent by someone else? Any proof? No. Then it stands.

Was he at the HRC? Scott free.

 

[hawkhamlet]

Indigenous families you mean. In anticipation of a tennis match of posts, I have written throughout this thread about it. I heard about this first hand some time ago, what is in public is very much what you are after as well. Cheers.

If you have given evidence in this thread to prove the claims, that's great. Please post a link so I can read it. If there is evidence "in public", again, please post a link.

 

[hawkhamlet]

HS had stacks of info at the time. Primary source information.

Do you accept Newbold’s email was sent by someone else? Any proof? No. Then it stands.

Was he at the HRC? Scott free.

What evidence did the Herald Sun provide?

 

[brad sue well]

If you have given evidence in this thread to prove the claims, that's great. Please post a link so I can read it. If there is evidence "in public", again, please post a link.

With respect, I have followed just about every bit of media since this started. It aligned with a detailed and lengthy conversation had years earlier.

I have read every post in this thread. I suggest you do the bare minimum of looking up the ABC and HS primary source info. I am not going to do your homework for you.

If you are after more detail of what I know, this isn’t the place to air it, not my story to tell. If you think a message board is where you will find what you are after, have a think.

I am unlikely to reply again.

Separately, I met a very close friend of a recent non-Indigenous champion and what should have been a glorious day in his career was spent making sure his family didn’t take anger out on someone at the club. Same champion has little contact with the club despite close ties to current people at the club. We won flags, the driver of the journey did some damage.

No doubt this post will get remarks. Sorry to let you down.

 

[Off The Couch]

Do you have any evidence to support the Aboriginal claims? What makes you think they are telling the truth?

Do some research on what Truth Telling is about

 

[Yardie]

There could be many reasons, but it's not necessary to speculate. If you want to say something happened, prove it. I want to see the evidence.

As far as I can tell, brad sue well doesn't have any.

If you want to be educated then read the thread. People aren't here to keep rehashing what has been said previously because you are lazy.

Note 1: There are plenty of people on both sides of the argument making comment. So would be no need for you to continue if already addressed.
Note 2: Don't try to play the 20 questions to try and get a "gotcha" moment

 

[hawkhamlet]

With respect, I have followed just about every bit of media since this started. It aligned with a detailed and lengthy conversation had years earlier.

I have read every post in this thread. I suggest you do the bare minimum of looking up the ABC and HS primary source info. I am not going to do your homework for you.

If you are after more detail of what I know, this isn’t the place to air it, not my story to tell. If you think a message board is where you will find what you are after, have a think.

I am unlikely to reply again.

Separately, I met a very close friend of a recent non-Indigenous champion and what should have been a glorious day in his career was spent making sure his family didn’t take anger out on someone at the club. Same champion has little contact with the club despite close ties to current people at the club. We won flags, the driver of the journey did some damage.

No doubt this post will get remarks. Sorry to let you down.

I read the original reporting when it was published. I didn't see any evidence in there, just claims. What is the primary-source information you are talking about? The claims of the Aboriginal players and their girlfriends? That's not evidence.

 

[hawkhamlet]

If you want to be educated then read the thread. People aren't here to keep rehashing what has been said previously because you are lazy.

Note 1: There are plenty of people on both sides of the argument making comment. So would be no need for you to continue if already addressed.
Note 2: Don't try to play the 20 questions to try and get a "gotcha" moment

I've read plenty of this thread and I have not seen any evidence which proves the allegations. If you have evidence, please show us.

 

[brad sue well]

I read the original reporting when it was published. I didn't see any evidence in there, just claims. What is the primary-source information you are talking about? The claims of the Aboriginal players and their girlfriends? That's not evidence.

One mentioned earlier on page 268... you are looking for one word [EDIT and it is in one post you didn't reply to! I don't like giving clues but if you are looking for a gotcha as someone said, you got yourself.].

Primary source - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Final post from me to you, all the best.

 

[Lawsy]

I've read plenty of this thread and I have not seen any evidence which proves the allegations. If you have evidence, please show us.

I'll play along...

Jason Burt acknowledged he, along with Clarko and Fagan, went to players houses to break up a relationships they felt were a hinderance the players footballing. Burt though, felt he'd done nothing wrong but corroborated that part of the accusations. This story went to print. There is no conjecture here, it happened. Burt has not said a word since that interview.

 

[Yardie]

I've read plenty of this thread and I have not seen any evidence which proves the allegations. If you have evidence, please show us.

There is enough evidence that it got to the HRC for the allegations to be tested. You seem to want a black and white outcome when this is a very grey area.

 

[hawkhamlet]

One mentioned earlier on page 268... you are looking for one word [EDIT and it is in one post you didn't reply to! I don't like giving clues but if you are looking for a gotcha as someone said, you got yourself.].

Primary source - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Final post from me to you, all the best.

You have posted one hysterical, vicious comment after another about Alastair Clarkson in this thread. And when you were pressed to show evidence to support your position, you became evasive and coy and desperate to find an escape hatch, declaring multiple times you were done talking about it. You're allowed to leave whenever you like, of course, but you have not shown us even the tiniest bit of evidence.

 

[hawkhamlet]

I'll play along...

Jason Burt acknowledged he, along with Clarko and Fagan, went to players houses to break up a relationships they felt were a hinderance the players footballing. Burt though, felt he'd done nothing wrong but corroborated that part of the accusations. This story went to print. There is no conjecture here, it happened. Burt has not said a word since that interview.

Clarkson thought certain players were in destructive relationships. Why did he think that? Was it true?

If that’s all this issue was, it wouldn’t even be worthy of comment. Now if Burt said he heard Clarko tell somebody to have an abortion, then you’d have something. But again, there is no evidence.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Clarkson thought certain players were in destructive relationships. Why did he think that? Was it true?

If that’s all this issue was, it wouldn’t even be worthy of comment. Now if Burt said he heard Clarko tell somebody to have an abortion, then you’d have something. But again, there is no evidence.

I know 1 thing for certain

A player , who was interviewed, went to Hawthorn asking for help in dealing with an ex gf who was harassing him

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I know 1 thing for certain

A player , who was interviewed, went to Hawthorn asking for help in dealing with an ex gf who was harassing him

This bit seems to be ignored by a lot.

Club was put in a crap position.
Do nothing - racist
Intervene - racist

The overlying issue is a staff member being in a domestic violence situation and reaching out for help.

 

[Yardie]

Clarkson thought certain players were in destructive relationships. Why did he think that? Was it true?

If that’s all this issue was, it wouldn’t even be worthy of comment. Now if Burt said he heard Clarko tell somebody to have an abortion, then you’d have something. But again, there is no evidence.

As has been said before it is a very grey area.

Here are a couple of questions. What gives an employer the right to intervene in people's personal lives? What would you do if your boss said to you to get rid of your girlfriend cause it is impacting your work? Do you think that is appropriate?

 

[crazywildhorse]

What a week to being this up again.

 

[brad sue well]

Email! Email, the word we were looking for. Thanks for playing. Post #6677. I don’t believe Newbold didn’t send the reply from his account or have knowledge of it.

It might blow your mind I have posted that HFC at the time were amongst the best in trying support Indigenous players, above and beyond. Execution has led to this sadness. Roles needed defining and respected, old school approach reigned.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Surely we're not going to be made to pay the very same employees that cause this in the first place??? Compensation for the former players and their families for been put through all the stress could be a good and hopefully a fair outcome but if Clarkson, Fagan and Burt are found guilty of the behaviour their accuse of , then they * right off and make separate payments out of their own pocket to the accusers.
Can't be just heaping it on the HFC I'm afraid, people who made the error of judgement also need to pay the price for their inate actions.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

As has been said before it is a very grey area.

Here are a couple of questions. What gives an employer the right to intervene in people's personal lives? What would you do if your boss said to you to get rid of your girlfriend cause it is impacting your work? Do you think that is appropriate?

Legally, that would not be allowed. In so many ways, under so many laws.
Which takes us back to the old he said, he said in this case.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

What a week to being this up again.

Beats talking about our shitty on field form I guess..
We all need a distraction (am in no way trivialising this btw.... gallows humour perhaps).

 

[MasterSamurai]

Also, if the HFC is made to pay both sets of parties then I would like the HFC to then, turn around and counter sue the three accused on the grounds that they put the HFC brand into disrepute by acting on rogue grounds. For this however, Mark Evans would have to be bought into the conversation or whoever was the GM or president to come forward and testify that they had no inclination of what those three were up to at the time.

 

[crazywildhorse]

Beats talking about our shitty on field form I guess..
We all need a distraction (am in no way trivialising this btw.... gallows humour perhaps).

Yeah, no problem. I get it. I guess this was always on the cards with a Clarkson v Hawks match anyway.

 

[brad sue well]

Also, if the HFC is made to pay both sets of parties then I would like the HFC to then, turn around and counter sue the three accused on the grounds that they put the HFC brand into disrepute by acting on rogue grounds. For this however, Mark Evans would have to be bought into the conversation or whoever was the GM or president to come forward and testify that they had no inclination of what those three were up to at the time.

Newbold was neck deep in it in that email.

Could the same logic apply to the policies themselves. The accused allegedly breached ever so basic workplace practice that is just common knowledge.

Three accused are all teachers, can’t say they didn’t know boundaries. Most people know boundaries, just looks like the culture was pretty powerful. That press conferences needed Fagan to sit at the back to make sure things didn’t go over the top is just a sample.