NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[The acurate one]

Not particularly interesting. I don't think many believe that Clarko is some demonic figure that poses a current threat to indigenous players. The question is whether some of his past behaviour was coercive control over private lives that he shouldn't have been involved in.

Yep he should have sacked them all. I mean that is one way of dealing with the issues.

 

[Chief]

Yep he should have sacked them all. I mean that is one way of dealing with the issues.

Or maybe offered more help? Alternative options? But according to some posters, "Amy" was the devil incarnate and a danger to life and limb so any action was justified.

 

[The acurate one]

Or maybe offered more help? Alternative options? But according to some posters, "Amy" was the devil incarnate and a danger to life and limb so any action was justified.

They and many others have been let down by a greedy AFL. Well as none of it has been proven, I have zero idea on what or who Amy is.
This thread has been horrid from day one, so many rooting for a lynching without knowing much of anything.

As someone who had been through similar but of course different, yes investigated and there were interviews, it all amounted to zero as I hadn't done what had been said.

So I said to a women in the office she looked good in that dress. Probably can't say that, but wtf do you say when someone asks you that question. That was the bit she left off.
Was heard by others and substantiated, that was one of about ten points they tried to lynch me on.

I was doing it tough, so I was done for unwanted phone calls, really you ****ing rang me or offered me to ring. Which I declined and had the text. I had zero interest in her apart from being a work colleague.
Best thing I did was keep my old smashed up phone, managed to get the texts off of it. I'd have been rooted without it. I should have sued tbh.
Peoples perceptions are real at times, but often they're added to for dramatic affect.


I think Al can be very naïve, expecting everyone to see the world as he does. Also can be arrogant. Success can do that

 

[South of the Yarra]

Why would he know what's going on, he wasn't there. Or do you think Aboriginal people share some mystical groupthink? They're people, like you and me. If he has a good relationship with Clarkson, that will inform his views, and has absolutely one fifth of * all to do with whether Clarkson did what was alleged.

Haven't you seen the telepathic powers of Neville Bell in Croc Dundee.

 

[sr36]

Yep he should have sacked them all. I mean that is one way of dealing with the issues.

Yes. It's called delisting in the AFL. Clubs do it every year when a player doesn't meet standards. Clubs need a welfare department to assist employees that is separate from performance managers with coercive hiring and firing powers. Coaches untrained in such matters shouldn't be meddling in personal relationships. It isn't complicated.

 

[The acurate one]

Yes. It's called delisting in the AFL. Clubs do it every year when a player doesn't meet standards. Clubs need a welfare department to assist employees that is separate from performance managers with coercive hiring and firing powers. Coaches untrained in such matters shouldn't be meddling in personal relationships. It isn't complicated.

Yes we have had a few troublesome souls at North, quite a good one faked a robbery at his place, shared accom with others players. He got swiftly delisted.

I did state al clarko is naïve and arrogant that of course doesn't equal racist.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Pretty good summary from a retired Supreme Court Judge about the fundamental failings in natural justice that Clarko, Fagan and Burt have experienced so far.

“Suppose, in the criminal law context, that a man was charged with a serious assault. There was a conversation with the prosecutor this way: ‘Who is it said I assaulted them?’ ‘I won’t tell you that.’ ‘What were the circumstances of this alleged assault?’ ‘I won’t tell you that.’ ‘When is it said that the assault occurred?’ ‘Some time in the last 10 years, but I won’t tell you anything more than that.’ ‘Have you obtained any corroboration of this alleged assault?’ ‘What I will do is tell the media that you have been charged with a serious assault, and that the maker of the allegation wouldn’t have made it unless it was true’,” Ashley said.

Senior judge criticises Hawthorn racism inquiry

One of Victoria’s most senior and experienced former judges has criticised the unfairness of the process Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt were submitted to by Hawthorn and the AFL’s racism investigation.

www.theage.com.au

 

[JackOutback]

Pretty good summary from a retired Supreme Court Judge about the fundamental failings in natural justice that Clarko, Fagan and Burt have experienced so far.

“Suppose, in the criminal law context, that a man was charged with a serious assault. There was a conversation with the prosecutor this way: ‘Who is it said I assaulted them?’ ‘I won’t tell you that.’ ‘What were the circumstances of this alleged assault?’ ‘I won’t tell you that.’ ‘When is it said that the assault occurred?’ ‘Some time in the last 10 years, but I won’t tell you anything more than that.’ ‘Have you obtained any corroboration of this alleged assault?’ ‘What I will do is tell the media that you have been charged with a serious assault, and that the maker of the allegation wouldn’t have made it unless it was true’,” Ashley said.

Senior judge criticises Hawthorn racism inquiry

One of Victoria’s most senior and experienced former judges has criticised the unfairness of the process Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt were submitted to by Hawthorn and the AFL’s racism investigation.

www.theage.com.au

I mean, that's completely the same... except for the fact no criminal act has been alleged and Clarko knows full bloody well who's making the accusations. Hell, Big Footy worked it out and this is not Australia's finest minds on here. No offence Chief

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I mean, that's completely the same... except for the fact no criminal act has been alleged and Clarko knows full bloody well who's making the accusations. Hell, Big Footy worked it out and this is not Australia's finest minds on here. No offence Chief

That comment is straight out of the mouth of one of Victoria's most senior Supreme Court Judges (retired).

That's why HFC/Egan and Jackson are in deep doo doo.

If a Supreme Court Judge is saying you screwed the pooch then there is a fair chance you are in a bit of strife legally speaking.

 

[Intothewind]

Jy Simpkin

12

Jy Simpkin

Age

27

Ht

183cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.0

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

8.1

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

20.6

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

9.6

5star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.5

4star

CL

5.5

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.2

2star

listens to both sides of the story, makes up his own mind and expresses his opinions. And then has his race referenced by posters unhappy with his opinion.

 

[sr36]

That comment is straight out of the mouth of one of Victoria's most senior Supreme Court Judges (retired).

That's why HFC/Egan and Jackson are in deep doo doo.

If a Supreme Court Judge is saying you screwed the pooch then there is a fair chance you are in a bit of strife legally speaking.

I haven't read it all, but isn't the judge criticising the AFL inquiry, rather than Egan/Hawthorn/Jackson?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I haven't read it all, but isn't the judge criticising the AFL inquiry, rather than Egan/Hawthorn/Jackson?

The way I read it he has had a crack at Hawthorn (ABC as well?) for not doing a thorough enough review/corroboration of facts prior to releasing their findings.

And a crack at the AFL for taking so long in running an investigation that was always going to fail given the lack of detailed specific accusations against the three accused.

 

[JackOutback]

That comment is straight out of the mouth of one of Victoria's most senior Supreme Court Judges (retired).

That's why HFC/Egan and Jackson are in deep doo doo.

If a Supreme Court Judge is saying you screwed the pooch then there is a fair chance you are in a bit of strife legally speaking.

Doesn't stop him from using a stupid example. The due process he describes is what you would require of a criminal matter. It might be preferred in an inquiry such as this but it's not required and there are reasons why it wasn't, as has been discussed ad nauseum in this thread. The lack of it doesn't put Hawthorn in any more or less 'doo doo' than before.

And despite the criticisms, he doesn't appear to suggest Hawthorn are in any specific trouble. It's, like, his opinion, man.

 

[Chief]

I mean, that's completely the same... except for the fact no criminal act has been alleged and Clarko knows full bloody well who's making the accusations. Hell, Big Footy worked it out and this is not Australia's finest minds on here. No offence Chief

 

[sr36]

Doesn't stop him from using a stupid example. The due process he describes is what you would require of a criminal matter. It might be preferred in an inquiry such as this but it's not required and there are reasons why it wasn't, as has been discussed ad nauseum in this thread. The lack of it doesn't put Hawthorn in any more or less 'doo doo' than before.

And despite the criticisms, he doesn't appear to suggest Hawthorn are in any specific trouble. It's, like, his opinion, man.

The only part of it that could be viewed as judicial is the AFL inquiry, which was set up to be a discipline hearing.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Doesn't stop him from using a stupid example. The due process he describes is what you would require of a criminal matter. It might be preferred in an inquiry such as this but it's not required and there are reasons why it wasn't, as has been discussed ad nauseum in this thread. The lack of it doesn't put Hawthorn in any more or less 'doo doo' than before.

And despite the criticisms, he doesn't appear to suggest Hawthorn are in any specific trouble. It's, like, his opinion, man.

Yes I agree it's not technically a criminal matter.

But the main point of his example is that the prosecutor (i.e. HFC/Egan, Jackson) ends up releasing their findings (HFC/Egan via naming the three accused in the report, Jackson by naming the three accused in his article) without going through any of the processes you would reasonably expect they should prior to attaching people by name to these kinds of allegations.

And he is a retired supreme Court judge so he would know a bit more about this than you or I (unless any BF posters are Supreme Court Judges which I doubt).

 

[yodellinhank]

That comment is straight out of the mouth of one of Victoria's most senior Supreme Court Judges (retired).

That's why HFC/Egan and Jackson are in deep doo doo.

If a Supreme Court Judge is saying you screwed the pooch then there is a fair chance you are in a bit of strife legally speaking.

So who has been charged, with what and by whom?

 

[010203]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Pretty good summary from a retired Supreme Court Judge about the fundamental failings in natural justice that Clarko, Fagan and Burt have experienced so far.

“Suppose, in the criminal law context, that a man was charged with a serious assault. There was a conversation with the prosecutor this way: ‘Who is it said I assaulted them?’ ‘I won’t tell you that.’ ‘What were the circumstances of this alleged assault?’ ‘I won’t tell you that.’ ‘When is it said that the assault occurred?’ ‘Some time in the last 10 years, but I won’t tell you anything more than that.’ ‘Have you obtained any corroboration of this alleged assault?’ ‘What I will do is tell the media that you have been charged with a serious assault, and that the maker of the allegation wouldn’t have made it unless it was true’,” Ashley said.

Senior judge criticises Hawthorn racism inquiry

One of Victoria’s most senior and experienced former judges has criticised the unfairness of the process Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt were submitted to by Hawthorn and the AFL’s racism investigation.

www.theage.com.au

Someone might want to tell Ashley that it wasn’t a criminal investigation and that no one has been charged with anything.

 

[blackshadow]

Someone might want to tell Ashley that it wasn’t a criminal investigation and that no one has been charged with anything.

Way to miss the point.

It’s about the denial of natural justice to Clarkson, Fagan and Burt.

 

[JackOutback]

Way to miss the point.

It’s about the denial of natural justice to Clarkson, Fagan and Burt.

Way to miss the point. My kids complain about lack of natural justice but dems the breaks when it’s not a criminal matter.

 

[r_boy]

Way to miss the point. My kids complain about lack of natural justice but dems the breaks when it’s not a criminal matter.

Wow hahaha

 

[perplexed]

Way to miss the point. My kids complain about lack of natural justice but dems the breaks when it’s not a criminal matter.

Way to show how much your hatred and bile trumps all.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Someone might want to tell Ashley that it wasn’t a criminal investigation and that no one has been charged with anything.

I don’t think Clarkson, Fagan and Burt would feel the same.

If you can’t see the similarities to the example provided by a retired Supreme Court Judge with what they have gone through then I’m not sure what more I can say.

 

[blackshadow]

Well, well, well Burt goes on record directly contradicting a number of the claims made against him, Clarkson and Fagan.

Puts some context around what happened at the time.

Colour me surprised!

‘I’ve got nothing to say sorry for’: Jason Burt responds to Hawthorn allegations

Former Hawthorn welfare manager Jason Burt publicly addresses the allegations made against him for the first time, saying he is “bruised” and “hurt”. Burt slams the AFL and the Hawks for their handling of the saga.

www.theage.com.au