NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


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[South of the Yarra]

The courts won't care either.

Thank you for the unnecessary condescending comment.

Human Rights Commission will

 

[South of the Yarra]

The courts won't care either.

Thank you for the unnecessary condescending comment.

If you ever watched Kung Fu then you will realise Grasshopper is a compliment

 

[Underarm]

Interesting take.

I found it more interesting that Courtin didn't once play the racism/race card in that statement and already seems to be distancing this from a racism investigation into simply about Hawthorn and Clarksons coconduct.

Whether there was a racial/cultural element to it is just a small part of it. Every allegation from the initial ABC article is completely unacceptable regardless of colour.

 

[Sphynx]

Whether there was a racial/cultural element to it is just a small part of it. Every allegation from the initial ABC article is completely unacceptable regardless of colour.

Well, not really actually.

The report was tabled to look into issues of racism within the club.

It reported back instances of institutional racism.

Clarkson, Fagan and Burt were immediately accused of being racists and orchestrating some of the worst examples of institutional racism in Australian sport.

It now gets to the crux of the matter, whether Clarkson and Hawthorn had this level of involvement for most of his players. I.e it wasn't racist at all.


The accusers legal shift is pretty telling, imo also evidence of the gravity of the situation they are facing legally with the future defamation suits.

Not surprising, future liability (or lack there of) is one of their top demands in mediation.

 

[r_boy]

Human Rights Commission will

You think?

I would think they are more interested in like human trafficking and slavery and things of that nature.

Not the case of the bloke who wanted to break up with his girlfriend and then the coaches were a bit too supportive of it.

I could be wrong though, and there could be some compelling evidence that this was in fact forced. Still only have half baked information.

 

[South of the Yarra]

You think?

I would think they are more interested in like human trafficking and slavery and things of that nature.

Not the case of the bloke who wanted to break up with his girlfriend and then the coaches were a bit too supportive of it.

I could be wrong though, and there could be some compelling evidence that this was in fact forced. Still only have half baked information.

Yes I do think.

 

[brooksnk]

A few posters have been saying that Zac and Kylie aren't even indigenous?

 

[PJays]

Clarkson may never coach again.

That's what Mark Robinson predicted on Fox Footy in the beginning.

He was wrong.

 

[Chief]

A few posters have been saying that Zac and Kylie aren't even indigenous?

Well, they would know. It's the sort of thing us random plebs would be privy to.

 

[sr36]

A few posters have been saying that Zac and Kylie aren't even indigenous?

It'll be great news if they intimidatorily coerced a non-indigenous player to break up with his pregnant fiance ... it was fair enough as he expressed concerns to the welfare officer about how fast things were moving and wasn't sure where his footy was at. They had no choice really.

 

[brooksnk]

It'll be great news if they intimidatorily coerced a non-indigenous player to break up with his pregnant fiance ... it was fair enough as he expressed concerns to the welfare officer about how fast things were moving and wasn't sure where his footy was at. They had no choice really.

Missing the point completely. Everything related to this investigation has a lens of race over it. Coercion would be wrong regardless.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Based on what Burt said you’d have to think Jackson The ABC, Binmada and Hawthorn are all in the gun for defamation claims…

Hawthorn won't be in the gun. They didn't publish or broadcast the report.

Binmada MAY be in the gun, as they did publish the report without verification.

The ABC WILL be in the gun, as they broadcast it without verification

 

[sr36]

Missing the point completely. Everything related to this investigation has a lens of race over it. Coercion would be wrong regardless.

I got the point. But I think it's pretty clear that it's been looked at the wrong way around. To me there's two questions - Was their inappropriate coercion in private lives? Was it influenced by racial stereotyping? The second question is only relevant if it's a yes to the first question.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Clarkson as a coach and leader of young Aboriginal men should know and understand the impact of family separation on Aboriginals particularly those that have links to the Stolen Generation and may suffer from Intergenerational trauma

 

[travelli]

I don't think the public really care about any of this if Zac wanted to break up with his girlfriend.

If clarko was coercing a player to break up with his partner then that is a massive overstep in the employer/employee relationship.

I think he could definitely go for that. "Best interests" or not. You just can't go there.

 

[sr36]

If clarko was coercing a player to break up with his partner then that is a massive overstep in the employer/employee relationship.

I think he could definitely go for that. "Best interests" or not. You just can't go there.

I don't think Burt's account does any of them any favours.

In what sounds like a one on one, player confides to the "welfare officer" that he's concerned how quickly things have moved with his pregnant fiance. "Welfare officer" with seemingly no knowledge of the relationship suggests they should break up. The next minute you've got the "welfare officer" and the coaches all deciding to go along to enact the break up. No mention of how the coaches got involved. No mention of the player agreeing to these measures, which would surely be a necessity and the trump card of your defence - if it occurred.

 

[perplexed]

We are now seeing why telling your side of the story isn't always a great idea. Especially when you don't have access to all the records of the time. Everyone's version of events is going to have stuff in it that isn't quite correct. Wrong order of events, wrong people in the room or copied in, different words used, etc. And every slip is going to interpreted by someone as a lie, with ensuing prejudice and racism.

Once again, this should have gone to Yoorrook. Dualling media interviews and lawyer statements are going to make this get needlessly ugly.

 

[sr36]

We are now seeing why telling your side of the story isn't always a great idea. Especially when you don't have access to all the records of the time. Everyone's version of events is going to have stuff in it that isn't quite correct. Wrong order of events, wrong people in the room or copied in, different words used, etc. And every slip is going to interpreted by someone as a lie, with ensuing prejudice and racism.

Once again, this should have gone to Yoorrook. Dualling media interviews and lawyer statements are going to make this get needlessly ugly.

Don't know why you'd do it through a journo like Burt did. If you are going to tell your side, you've got to address everything, and not just selective bits.

 

[Foucault1989]

Is it in the coaches job description to break up a relationship? Seems absolutely bonkers that this actually happened. What a nut case!!!

 

[blackshadow]

Clarkson as a coach and leader of young Aboriginal men should know and understand the impact of family separation on Aboriginals particularly those that have links to the Stolen Generation and may suffer from Intergenerational trauma

The nub of this particular situation is whether Zac had requested assistance to leave the relationship.
We know that later on things changed and they ended up together but if assistance to leave the relationship at the time was requested then the actions of the three accused aren’t racist.

 

[Foucault1989]

The nub of this particular situation is whether Zac had requested assistance to leave the relationship.
We know that later on things changed and they ended up together but if assistance to leave the relationship at the time was requested then the actions of the three accused aren’t racist.

Mate, rocking up at a person's house to "help" with a break up is not normal. Support the young guy to see professional support via a couples counsellor if he wants a break up. It's so crazy to think this actually happened!!! It's such a strange scenario - to think they thought this was appropriate is ridiculous.

 

[Beerfish]

Crazy stuff from Burt.

 

[sr36]

Crazy stuff from Burt.

Yep. Didn't refute the Zac story at all. In fact made it sound more likely that the three had gone nuts

 

[noideaatall]

Yep. Didn't refute the Zac story at all. In fact made it sound more likely that the three had gone nuts

It is a Prince Andrew moment for Burt. How could he be so out of touch now and then?

 

[Foucault1989]

I have empathy for all involved around how long this investigation has taken and how poorly it has been conducted. However, it is becoming clearer that Clarko, Fagan and Burt acted completely inappropriately. They probably shouldn't be involved in an AFL club again.