Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

Should Hawks Be Punished?

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sr36 said:
You'd need to be in the inner sanctum to know that a bloke with a development coach job title is actually operating in a mentor role for the other coaches like you're suggesting. Seems unlikely in this AFL world of ridiculous job titles that he wouldn't get one if he was more than development.

Yeah I do follow matters at Hawthorn. Hawks are always an interesting watch as they don't follow the herd like most clubs do.

I think the unsuccessful previous attempt to reboot with talented guys with injury clouds making them affordable was worth a shot. But this one just looks like a combination of the Bucks succession plan with a bit of bottom out theory thrown in but without the patience to see the bottom out through until there are some stars in place.

Sorry that that seems to rile you so much. But this is the main board. Some aren't going to view the Hawks with the rose coloured glasses that you do.
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I know this because I have had mates play at box hill and be around the hawthorn environment. SYL is spot on. Andy Collins is massive for the club and is extremely experienced and important. I love listening to him speak.
 

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sr36 said:
Have you ever worked in an organisation with people who've previously had loftier jobs
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Sure.
That doesn’t change the fact that you’re completely disregarding someone so respected and knowledgeable, choosing to instead believe that no one would listen to him because of his title.
 
sr36 said:
I'm not talking about the meeting or the podcast .Just the concept of a player sooking it up.

I wasn't impressed by Tom going public with his complaints, but the bit that made my jaw drop was the players entering the change rooms with their rating out of 5 on display. Very old school.
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It’s also not to suggest it is the same, could be different but you don’t know.
 
Yoda_ said:
I wanna pile on hawks as much as the next one sr36 but Andy Collins is pretty well respected in both VFL and development circles mate. I can confirm this as an outsider
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I know he is. That's not what I'm saying. Hawks have hired him so they obviously respect him'. But the reality is he is their development coach and I'm sure he has a great deal of say regarding youngsters. However, there's a hierarchy of about 5 blokes sitting above him in terms of coaching the senior team. Hawk fans can have their Luke and Yoda fantasies, but it's unlikely that they're more than fantasies. Hierarchies rarely work that way. Incredibly rarely with young new heads. You had to be an outsider to get deference from Luke.
 
sr36 said:
You'd need to be in the inner sanctum to know that a bloke with a development coach job title is actually operating in a mentor role for the other coaches like you're suggesting. Seems unlikely in this AFL world of ridiculous job titles that he wouldn't get one if he was more than development.

Yeah I do follow matters at Hawthorn. Hawks are always an interesting watch as they don't follow the herd like most clubs do.

I think the unsuccessful previous attempt to reboot with talented guys with injury clouds making them affordable was worth a shot. But this one just looks like a combination of the Bucks succession plan with a bit of bottom out theory thrown in but without the patience to see the bottom out through until there are some stars in place.

Sorry that that seems to rile you so much. But this is the main board. Some aren't going to view the Hawks with the rose coloured glasses that you do.
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When Collins came in a lot of the mention was his long experience would be very helpful for Sam and less experienced coaches
 
sr36 said:
I know he is. That's not what I'm saying. Hawks have hired him so they obviously respect him'. But the reality is he is their development coach and I'm sure he has a great deal of say regarding youngsters. However, there's a hierarchy of about 5 blokes sitting above him in terms of coaching the senior team. Hawk fans can have their Luke and Yoda fantasies, but it's unlikely that they're more than fantasies. Hierarchies rarely work that way. Incredibly rarely with young new heads. You had to be an outsider to get deference from Luke.
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I’d back off from potting others cos many think you are the one in fantasy land.
 
peetoo said:
When Collins came in a lot of the mention was his long experience would be very helpful for Sam and less experienced coaches
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peetoo said:
I’d back off from potting others cos many think you are the one in fantasy land.
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Constructed truths are strong.

Here's how things go in organisations.

Selection panels are wowed by things the candidate has done outside and above the role they're being hired for, as they should be. Candidate hired. Fuss made about prior experience in other roles and the value it will bring. Candidate does the role they were hired for. If they do things above their role they get a promotion or new job title better reflecting their contribution. But more often they stay in their lane. And very often when they don't it creates conflict as toes are stood on if their voice is too powerful compared to the person looking after that portfolio. Occasionally it works with the expertise being tapped but that's usually when those above the candidate are really confident in their roles and not threatened by someone impinging on their portfolio or concerned about how it looks. You fake it until you make it.

It's possible that his role is more than development coach, unlikely that he wouldn't have been given a promotion or new job title though.

Talk of the experience he brings is just that - talk. Talk from the Box Hill boys is evidence that he's respected in his development role. It's not evidence that he is given a strong voice in the coaching of the senior team. I hope he is.
 
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sr36 said:
Constructed truths are strong.

Here's how things go in organisations.

Selection panels are wowed by things the candidate has done outside and above the role they're being hired for, as they should be. Candidate hired. Fuss made about prior experience in other roles and the value it will bring. Candidate does the role they were hired for. If they do things above their role they get a promotion or new job title better reflecting their contribution. But more often they stay in their lane. And very often when they don't it creates conflict as toes are stood on if their voice is too powerful compared to the person looking after that portfolio. Occasionally it works with the expertise being tapped but that's usually when those above the candidate are really confident in their roles and not threatened by someone impinging on their portfolio or concerned about how it looks. You fake it until you make it.

It's possible that his role is more than development coach, unlikely that he wouldn't have been given a promotion or new job title though.

Talk of the experience he brings is just that - talk. Talk from the Box Hill boys is evidence that he's respected in his development role. It's not evidence that he is given a strong voice in the coaching of the senior team. I hope he is.
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Womp womp

I ain’t readin all dat
 

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TigerTime88 said:
Feel as though the Hawks need to target or develop some high quality talls.
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Dear and McCabe are two young talents we have on the list. Both F/S's surprisingly. Currently a lot is riding on their development. Though both may be more suited to playing third tall roles, particularly McCabe (athleticism, skills, good at reading the air - a prototype defender IMO).

I've seen some posters are claiming we are missing Blanck due to injury, but I do not believe we would have been playing Blanck AND Frost in the same side - and Frost is arguably in career best form right now. Chances are he wouldn't be playing if Blanck was fit.

IMO the main issue with Blanck being out is he's missing a key season of development, and we now won't really know if he's up to the task of being our long term FB for another two years.

Hopefully we have our long-term KPF partnership in Lewis and Dear, and a long-term KPD partnership on McCabe and Blanck. But there are a lot of IFs that need to be satisfied for that to eventuate.
 
Philhawk said:
What are those funny North posters up to these days?
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Like the last three years they will complete their migratory patterns around from April until late September and begin posting in October through to March when they return to the nest.
 
These threads should really be renamed
Insert club where are they at? Like old times with reactionary posts.

Win win for a neutral today, stkilda in no man's land or this thread were getting a work out.
I don't know if today says more about Stkilda or Hawthorn tbh
 
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