Prediction How will the Geelong Cats fare in season 2024?

[Catastrophe!]

Vdubs has once again proven himself to be quite knowledgeable in such matters. He wasn't far off.

Yeah definitely got that one wrong. Apologies Vdubs

Probably wishful thinking on my part.

 

[juzcat]

I've done my quad before and went down like a sack of spuds. Was just a standard strain though.

Obviously it's possible Guthrie's done something really bad but I wouldn't assume that by the way he went down.

how long was yr recovery?

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[thejester]

I view us as starting very much as 2022. How we evolve from here is very much a function of the progress of and the evolution of Holmes, Clark, Dempsey, Neale and others.

Was watching the highlights of Rd 1 2022 the other day and was a bit shocked to see Dahlhaus and Higgins in the team. Evolution is possible!

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Was watching the highlights of Rd 1 2022 the other day and was a bit shocked to see Dahlhaus and Higgins in the team. Evolution is possible!

Not just that. Francis Evans played 4 games. Narkle 5. Cooper Stephens 5. Dahlhaus 9. Higgins 5.

People thinking we can't rely on depth from Neale, Dempsey, and Knevitt should note they played half a dozen games between them as second year's that year.

This doesn't include unused sub games.

AFL Tables - Geelong - 2022 Game by Game Player Stats

 

[thejester]

Not just that. Francis Evans played 4 games. Narkle 5. Cooper Stephens 5. Dahlhaus 9. Higgins 5.

People thinking we can't rely on depth from Neale, Dempsey, and Knevitt should note they played half a dozen games between them as second year's that year.

This doesn't include unused sub games.

AFL Tables - Geelong - 2022 Game by Game Player Stats

I think the difference is that Dahlhaus and Higgins were both probably seen as best 22 going into the season but were ultimately forced out by younger players who themselves became locks. We definitely have a pool of players who we can expect to come in as the 22nd or 23rd player and do an adequate job in that role. But to progress back to serious contention (or even just finals) we need some of them to become best 18 and relegate experienced players to the fringe.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Lol, it was a quad mate, and he walked off the field - so I'd be surprised if he's not back by Round 3-6. 3 months is nuts.

It is nuts but it is what it is.

 

[Footy Smarts]

It is nuts but it is what it is.

They guided from just under to just over 2 months. That fits the back end of Catastrophe! return range. So 3 months out would be incredibly disappointing even now.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I think the difference is that Dahlhaus and Higgins were both probably seen as best 22 going into the season but were ultimately forced out by younger players who themselves became locks. We definitely have a pool of players who we can expect to come in as the 22nd or 23rd player and do an adequate job in that role. But to progress back to serious contention (or even just finals) we need some of them to become best 18 and relegate experienced players to the fringe.

For sure, but I think we have good depth to push through. Also, that's 14 games to Dahlhaus and Higgins and also 14 games to Narkle, Stephens, and Evans and all three of them have been delisted at some point and are playing elsewhere.

 

[Footy Smarts]

how long was yr recovery?

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I wasn't playing elite sport so take it with a grain of salt. But from memory about 5 weeks. So I assume Guthrie's is a more serious strain.

Also you can run freely much quicker than that because running doesn't stress your quad. So he should be running and building fitness well before his return. It will be conditioning the quad for kicking and jumping that will take time.

 

[Vdubs]

Yeah definitely got that one wrong. Apologies Vdubs

Probably wishful thinking on my part.

No worries; there is no winner in this, other than the teams we play if they can exploit our loss.

 

[Vdubs]

They guided from just under to just over 2 months. That fits the back end of Catastrophe! return range. So 3 months out would be incredibly disappointing even now.

If this is related to the guess of 12 weeks, that was from the day of injury, as was posted.
That brings us to rd 10, maybe, or likely rd 11., but we are guessing.
We know his management and approach to rehab will be optimal and exemplary.

 

[Vdubs]

I wasn't playing elite sport so take it with a grain of salt. But from memory about 5 weeks. So I assume Guthrie's is a more serious strain.

Also you can run freely much quicker than that because running doesn't stress your quad. So he should be running and building fitness well before his return. It will be conditioning the quad for kicking and jumping that will take time.

He will be symptom free well before 12 weeks, maybe even by 4 weeks, but , as you said, it's the extreme stresses of taking off, or jumping, and particularly hard explosive kicking that will be the concern, and the reason for delayed RTP.
Preventing a recurrence will be top priority.

 

[Catastrophe!]

If this is related to the guess of 12 weeks, that was from the day of injury, as was posted.
That brings us to rd 10, maybe, or likely rd 11., but we are guessing.
We know his management and approach to rehab will be optimal and exemplary.

Nah definitely wouldn't be that late, as we have Round 0 this year, and it will be 3 and a half weeks from the injury until our Round 1 game...so best case is Round 5, worst case is Round 7: based on their forecasting.

We all know it can take longer, but even allowing for setbacks, I'd still Round 8 or 9 at worst. 10 or 11 is pretty much half the season, which is disastrous for a pre-season soft tissue injury, IMO.

 

[goyoucatters]

Very surprised at the pessimism here.

Surely not. After all, the club hasn't won a game for premiership points for nearly seven months.

SEVEN months!

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

It is nuts but it is what it is.

I always thought a quad injury was just a strain type thing, not an 8 week proposition. Did he have a tendon rupture ?

 

[Cataholic]

I always thought a quad injury was just a strain type thing, not an 8 week proposition. Did he have a tendon rupture ?

Vdubs .....can you give us an understanding of the injury in layman's terms?

 

[PeasFC]

Vdubs .....can you give us an understanding of the injury in layman's terms?

I can help. I'm a physio

It is possible to have a quad strain of varying grades (just like hammy's).

They tend to tear when the muscle is shortening, and although less frequent than hamstring strains they can often be larger tears that require the slightly longer time frame. Hamstrings work as a complex of three main muscles and low grade strains are very common usually when the muscles is getting stretched (lengthened).

In the quad the rec fem muscle does a greater percentage of the power work - when they tear, they are often more substantial in nature. It is very common for quads to take 4 - 6 weeks, with 8 - 10 being severe in nature. This may or may not involve damage to the tendon.

If he had substantial tendon damage he would likely have surgery.

 

[Cataholic]

I can help. I'm a physio

It is possible to have a quad strain of varying grades (just like hammy's).

They tend to tear when the muscle is shortening, and although less frequent than hamstring strains they can often be larger tears that require the slightly longer time frame. Hamstrings work as a complex of three main muscles and low grade strains are very common usually when the muscles is getting stretched (lengthened).

In the quad the rec fem muscle does a greater percentage of the power work - when they tear, they are often more substantial in nature. It is very common for quads to take 4 - 6 weeks, with 8 - 10 being severe in nature. This may or may not involve damage to the tendon.

If he had substantial tendon damage he would likely have surgery.

Awesome explanation.

Thanks!

 

[4quarter_cat]

Surely not. After all, the club hasn't won a game for premiership points for nearly seven months.

SEVEN months!

imagine going 20 years without winning a final....

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I can help. I'm a physio

It is possible to have a quad strain of varying grades (just like hammy's).

They tend to tear when the muscle is shortening, and although less frequent than hamstring strains they can often be larger tears that require the slightly longer time frame. Hamstrings work as a complex of three main muscles and low grade strains are very common usually when the muscles is getting stretched (lengthened).

In the quad the rec fem muscle does a greater percentage of the power work - when they tear, they are often more substantial in nature. It is very common for quads to take 4 - 6 weeks, with 8 - 10 being severe in nature. This may or may not involve damage to the tendon.

If he had substantial tendon damage he would likely have surgery.

We really need you in on the conversation more often. Love the contribution

 

[cats_09]

We really need you in on the conversation more often. Love the contribution

Bookmark for future reference and we can then tag as required for that little bit of extra info

 

[Vdubs]

Vdubs .....can you give us an understanding of the injury in layman's terms?

Hope this helps. Of course, this is general; nobody knows what exact injury Cam has.

It's important to differentiate between a muscle tear(strain)and a central tendon tear, which has implications for hamstrings, quads and calves for starters.

• Injuries involving the quadriceps or hamstring intramuscular tendon have prolonged rehabilitation and return to play times—they must be treated differently to ‘muscle strains’.
• Differentiation of these intramuscular tendon injuries seems particularly important in injuries to the biceps femoris and rectus femoris muscles.
• If injury to these tendons is suspected, MRI is indicated for accurate diagnosis
• There may be a role for surgical repair of the tendon in injuries with significant damage of the intramuscular tendon
• Improved recognition of injury of the intramuscular tendon may allow more accurate prediction of time to return to sport and thus, reduce risk of recurrence.
• The role of surgical repair versus conservative management in some of these injuries is not clear. The options need to be weighed carefully and discussed appropriately (shared decision-making) until more data provide a basis for clear recommendations.

Classification of Quadriceps Strains​

Below provided is an outline of a clinical grading system for muscle strains. Factoring in pain, loss of strength, and physical exam findings in a grading system helps provide guidance for treatment, rehabilitation, and eventual return to play.

1. Grade I (mild) strains affect only a limited number of fibers in the muscle. There is no decrease in strength and there is a fully active and passive range of motion. Pain and tenderness are often delayed to the next day.
2. Grade II (moderate) strains have nearly half of muscle fibers torn. Acute and significant pain is accompanied by swelling and a minor decrease in muscle strength.
3. Grade III (severe) strains represent the complete rupture of the muscle. This means either the tendon is separated from the muscle belly or the muscle belly is actually torn in 2 parts. Severe swelling and pain and a complete loss of function are characteristic of this type of strain

Muscle injuries also be broadly classified as either acute or chronic injuries.

1. Acute injuries: are usually the result of a single traumatic event and cause a macro-trauma to the muscle. There is an obvious link between the cause and noticeable symptoms.They mostly occur in contact sports such as rugby, soccer and basketball because of their dynamic and high collision nature.
2. Overusechronic or exercise-induced injuries)are subtler and usually occur over a longer period of time.They result from repetitive micro-trauma to the muscle. Diagnosing is more challenging since there is a less obvious link between the cause of the injury and the symptoms.

Grades of quadriceps strain​

1. Grade 1 symptoms: Symptoms of a grade 1 quadriceps strain are not always serious enough to stop training at the time of injury. A twinge may be felt in the thigh and a general feeling of tightness.The athlete may feel mild discomfort on walking and running might be difficult.There is unlikely to be swelling. A lump or area of spasm at the site of injury may be felt.
2. Grade 2 symptoms: The athlete may feel a sudden sharp pain when running, jumping or kicking and be unable to play on.Pain will make walking difficult and swelling or mild bruising may be noticed.The pain would be felt when pressing in on the suspected location of the quad muscle tear.Straightening the knee against resistance is likely to cause pain and the injured athlete will be unable to fully bend the knee.
3. Grade 3 symptoms: Symptoms consist of a severe,sudden pain in the front of the thigh.The patient will be unable to walk without the aid of crutches.Bad swelling will appear immediately and significant bruising within 24 hours.A static muscle contraction will be painful and is likely to produce a bulge in the muscle.The player can expect to be out of competition for 6 to 12 weeks.

 

[4quarter_cat]

TLDR?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

TLDR?

Quad strain bad. If quad strain damages tendon then very bad.

Accurate Vdubs ?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Mongrel punt writer lists 10 players to watch league-wide this year

2 are cats

Dempsey and Neale come on down

Ten Players To Keep An Eye On - The Mongrel Punt

The AAMI Series is about to start and as we get underwater, HB has a few players he's keeping a close eye on in 2024.

themongrelpunt.com