Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 6

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Sttew

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your home isn't exempt you pay land tax every year, its a steady tax stream to the Government
So how do you factor in someone who has paid $100K stamp duty in, say, 2020, 2021 or at anytime in recent history? Do they start paying this new land tax? It would be mighty unfair to cop a stamp duty bill + annual land tax
 

Gralin

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So how do you factor in someone who has paid $100K stamp duty in, say, 2020, 2021 or at anytime in recent history? Do they start paying this new land tax? It would be mighty unfair to cop a stamp duty bill + annual land tax
well in NSW they aren't hitting people twice

my preference would be an annual tax on all property with discounts for people that have bought more recently

eg if your stamp duty paid was equivalent to 10 years of tax and you'd been living in the place for 5 years you don't get your first bill for 5 more years after it comes in, if you've been there for 15 years you start paying straight away when it comes in

during transition you have the choice of which way to pay
 

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Kwality

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So how do you factor in someone who has paid $100K stamp duty in, say, 2020, 2021 or at anytime in recent history? Do they start paying this new land tax? It would be mighty unfair to cop a stamp duty bill + annual land tax

I'd think the tax take will increase not reduce - no shortage of people wanting 'the Government' to do more for them.
 

Mofra

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well in NSW they aren't hitting people twice

my preference would be an annual tax on all property with discounts for people that have bought more recently

eg if your stamp duty paid was equivalent to 10 years of tax and you'd been living in the place for 5 years you don't get your first bill for 5 more years after it comes in, if you've been there for 15 years you start paying straight away when it comes in

during transition you have the choice of which way to pay
If they abolish payroll tax with it I'd be in favour.
 

Mofra

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Wasnt payroll tax supposed to go with the GST ?
A direct tax on jobs that was easily minimised ... o_O
It was amended but not abolished. I don't think any state abolished it.
As a matter of principle I'm against any tax that disincentives employment. It just doesn't seem to make economic sense.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Wasnt payroll tax supposed to go with the GST ?
A direct tax on jobs that was easily minimised ... o_O

It was amended but not abolished. I don't think any state abolished it.
As a matter of principle I'm against any tax that disincentives employment. It just doesn't seem to make economic sense.

a VERY rusty memory, but something in the back of my noggin remembers it being part of the discussion.

my guess is it was originally slated to be removed, but when the Australian Democrats got their changes in for the "ethical" GST, trade offs had to be made for the lost revenue, and i think payroll tax may have been the price paid.

again - likely to be wrong, i just remember it being discussed back them
 

Sttew

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well in NSW they aren't hitting people twice

my preference would be an annual tax on all property with discounts for people that have bought more recently

eg if your stamp duty paid was equivalent to 10 years of tax and you'd been living in the place for 5 years you don't get your first bill for 5 more years after it comes in, if you've been there for 15 years you start paying straight away when it comes in

during transition you have the choice of which way to pay
I'm anti this tax, reason being that with the current stamp duty you factor in a one-off stamp duty slug in the purchase price and include it in the mortgage. You then don't have to worry about an ongoing land tax. It's bad enough paying Council rates (TAX) + house insurance which includes a fire levy (TAX). Yet another tax is just a disincentive to buy, IMO.

Also, I don't trust governments, no matter what political persuasion. A land tax to replace stamp duty will end up costing us more. You can bet your last dollar on that. When things get tough for a government you can also bet they will increase land tax or add a special levy, just like successive governments have done with fuel taxes and Medicare levies.
 

Gralin

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It was amended but not abolished. I don't think any state abolished it.
As a matter of principle I'm against any tax that disincentives employment. It just doesn't seem to make economic sense.
I'm happy for payroll tax to go away but I think our tax systems are pretty messed up on purpose right now also
 

Gralin

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I'm anti this tax, reason being that with the current stamp duty you factor in a one-off stamp duty slug in the purchase price and include it in the mortgage. You then don't have to worry about an ongoing land tax. It's bad enough paying Council rates (TAX) + house insurance which includes a fire levy (TAX). Yet another tax is just a disincentive to buy, IMO.

Also, I don't trust governments, no matter what political persuasion. A land tax to replace stamp duty will end up costing us more. You can bet your last dollar on that. When things get tough for a government you can also bet they will increase land tax or add a special levy, just like successive governments have done with fuel taxes and Medicare levies.
Yes it will end up costing us more, that is the whole point.

But it will mean more people are paying fairer share of costs of ownership than what happens currently.

But then I'd also want our income tax to be more progressive, instead of the way its going currently and I think if they started making the top end pay their share there would be less need for some of the levies they push out
 

Carn The Berries

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Yes it will end up costing us more, that is the whole point.

But it will mean more people are paying fairer share of costs of ownership than what happens currently.

But then I'd also want our income tax to be more progressive, instead of the way its going currently and I think if they started making the top end pay their share there would be less need for some of the levies they push out
Unfortunately, there will be pigs in the sky before the states and feds sit down at the same table to evaluate the national taxation system as a whole.

Not sure that the top end aren't contributing now... In 2018-19 the top 1% of taxpayers contributed 16.7% of the total income tax collected ($35.6bn).
 

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Gralin

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Unfortunately, there will be pigs in the sky before the states and feds sit down at the same table to evaluate the national taxation system as a whole.

Not sure that the top end aren't contributing now... In 2018-19 the top 1% of taxpayers contributed 16.7% of the total income tax collected ($35.6bn).
what was there % of total income though
 

Sttew

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Yes it will end up costing us more, that is the whole point.

But it will mean more people are paying fairer share of costs of ownership than what happens currently.

But then I'd also want our income tax to be more progressive, instead of the way its going currently and I think if they started making the top end pay their share there would be less need for some of the levies they push out
So why would anyone support a change in how the property in which you live is taxed?
 

Kwality

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a lot of things could be done better than how we are currently but there is little appetite for that kind of reform generally

Because Federally we still have 1920s tax legislation as amended employing an army of lawyers, accountants & wealth managers making $hay as the $s are paid their way, not to the tax man.
 

Gralin

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So why would anyone support a change in how the property in which you live is taxed?
You realise that they don't need our support to raise taxes right?

Like they could legislate this tomorrow

But also some people don't think the only purpose of tax changes should be to lower the cost
 

Sttew

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You realise that they don't need our support to raise taxes right?

Like they could legislate this tomorrow

But also some people don't think the only purpose of tax changes should be to lower the cost
Yes I do realise governments can raise taxes. How do you think Victoria became the highest taxing state in Australia

But if they upped the land tax it could be political suicide. Just like death duty.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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well in NSW they aren't hitting people twice

my preference would be an annual tax on all property with discounts for people that have bought more recently

eg if your stamp duty paid was equivalent to 10 years of tax and you'd been living in the place for 5 years you don't get your first bill for 5 more years after it comes in, if you've been there for 15 years you start paying straight away when it comes in

during transition you have the choice of which way to pay
This sounds sensible.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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Yes I do realise governments can raise taxes. How do you think Victoria became the highest taxing state in Australia

But if they upped the land tax it could be political suicide. Just like death duty.
Victoria and NSW oscillate between being the highest "taxing" states in Australia for obvious reasons.

Dominant service sectors, more diversified economies than other states and large construction/property sectors due to (formerly) growing populations.

The Northern Territory and Tasmania rely on GST redistribution and WA and Queensland generate revenues from mining royalties. The circumstances that lead to high taxes in Victoria and NSW are common to developed nations. The most high taxing states or regional jurisdictions across the OECD typically tend to be those with the largest or most economically important cities. See California, New York, the Kanto prefecture etc.
 

Gralin

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