Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

[nut]

so taking everything we know about corruption, it's effect on society and governance, a corrupt politician should not be in government at the very least?

I’m really enjoying you quality posting and would greatly appreciate if you could head over to the Robodebt thread and give us a hand there.
There’s lot to work with there so more hands on deck the better.
Thanks in-advance … keep the anti corruption fight going

 

[Magnum27]

So not corrupt, but the rules set up in a way that makes sure they cannot go down that line when investigating.

I'm sure all Labor backers jumped all over the bold when it was on the table by dopey Scotty, but ignore it now because it's their team.

So both parties push a piss weak policy so they can't be caught out, goes with my opinion of them all being self serving assholes.

Corruption experts condemn Andrews over IBAC report

Former judge Anthony Whealy has ridiculed Daniel Andrews’ claim that a report into a union contract was “educational”.

www.afr.com

Mr Whealy said the state’s anti-corruption regime was regarded as “deficient” because it required a criminal offence to be established before a finding of corrupt comment could be made.

”In that respect, it’s a bit like the Scott Morrison model for the federal ICAC that was criticised by so many people.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

So not corrupt, but the rules set up in a way that makes sure they cannot go down that line when investigating.

I'm sure all Labor backers jumped all over the bold when it was on the table by dopey Scotty, but ignore it now because it's their team.

So both parties push a piss weak policy so they can't be caught out, goes with my opinion of them all being self serving assholes.

Corruption experts condemn Andrews over IBAC report

Former judge Anthony Whealy has ridiculed Daniel Andrews’ claim that a report into a union contract was “educational”.

www.afr.com

Mr Whealy said the state’s anti-corruption regime was regarded as “deficient” because it required a criminal offence to be established before a finding of corrupt comment could be made.

”In that respect, it’s a bit like the Scott Morrison model for the federal ICAC that was criticised by so many people.

A lot of so called labor backers are simply anti LNP.

 

[Gough]

A lot of so called labor backers are simply anti LNP.

If we're to believe that both major parties as bad as each other I'd rather the mob that at least pays lip service to acting in our best interests.

 

[Saint]

A lot of so called labor backers are simply anti LNP.

I'm anti LNP and anti-ALP. Doesn't mean I don't know which one is worse

Morrison gave $300k grant from an indigenous fund so Warren Mundine could make a TV show for Sky News. Now the LNP and Warren are complaining that not enough is being done for indigenous people, and that what is being proposed is a waste of money......

 

[evolved2]

It's easier to get your message out via social media. You can control the message you give to people and not rely on the middle man media.

The flip side to it is if your message stinks there's no shortage of people who will call it out for what it is.

Does Dan ever reply on social media? All I see is his initial tweet and mixed bag of comments below.

Seems to me he's not interested in debating or being questioned at all.

 

[eddiesmith]

Does Dan ever reply on social media? All I see is his initial tweet and mixed bag of comments below.

Seems to me he's not interested in debating or being questioned at all.

Dan probably doesn’t know how to use Facebook, his army of social media minions would log into their puppet accounts and reply on them making it seem like ordinary Victorians take offence to anyone questions their dear leader.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Does Dan ever reply on social media? All I see is his initial tweet and mixed bag of comments below.

Seems to me he's not interested in debating or being questioned at all.

No. Not many do to begin with. It's just a marking tool to them.

 

[Chief]

No. Not many do to begin with. It's just a marking tool to them.

Yeah the Sky nuffies post inflammatory things then sit back and watch the fights.

Professional social media trolls.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Don't understand why Andrews doesn't go harder on fixing this crap. As far as I can tell, he's not personally benefiting... so why is he turning a blind eye? Normally, politicians are happy to feather the nest of big business, or unions because of some kind of quid pro quo that helps them get re-elected. But he's in his third term. He's just won a thumping victory. I mean, the government is literally required to build him a statue.

Why would you want to tarnish your legacy with this sort of stink?

It makes no sense to me.

 

[Saint]

Don't understand why Andrews doesn't go harder on fixing this crap. As far as I can tell, he's not personally benefiting... so why is he turning a blind eye? Normally, politicians are happy to feather the nest of big business, or unions because of some kind of quid pro quo that helps them get re-elected. But he's in his third term. He's just won a thumping victory. I mean, the government is literally required to build him a statue.

Why would you want to tarnish your legacy with this sort of stink?

It makes no sense to me.

He's personally benefitting because these are the organisations who provide people and donations to help get him elected.

It's a pretty direct line of benefit. They strong-arm him (and most Labor pollies) into doing things for them in return for their support.

The difference between Unions getting stuff is that pay-rises for nurses and teachers is actually beneficial a little bit of extra $ for a lot of people.

When the LNP do corruption, it's so that big $$ goes into the pockets of just a few people. Sometimes the ALP do this type of corruption too (hello gas companies).

 

[kalex6251]

looks like steve price is still struggling with the nov 2022 election result

 

[Not Important]

The IBAC found the behaviour of the advisers constituted "grey corruption", which it defined as "the bending or breaking of rules, even if that might not amount to criminal behaviour, but that unfairly favours the allies, friends and networks of decision-makers".

Integrity experts urge swift action to rein in 'grey corruption' in Victoria

Integrity experts urge the Andrews government to act swiftly to tackle the risk of "grey corruption" by political staffers, after a damning report by the state's anti-corruption watchdog.

amp.abc.net.au

'Grey corruption' in the Andrews government – podcast

Benita Kolovos tells Jane Lee that though the anti-corruption watchdog has cleared Dan Andrews and his ministers of corrupt conduct, its findings could hit the premier’s legacy

www.theguardian.com

Please cut it out with the pathetic sky news drivel, it’s so far from correct.

i agree that linking you with the moronic right was out of place. apologies.

1. as you say the grey or soft corruption was related to advisors. andrews and his ministers were not found to have acted corruptly, yet the narrative has been to say he and his ministers were found to have acted corruptly. that is bc the right-wing news media has for so long said ibac would find corruption and it would see the end of andrews. wrong! but they still dine out on it.

2. ibac also found that "some transparency and accountability measures have been implemented" something the right has failed to draw attention to. funny that.

3. the contract awarded to the HEF was unethical and not to be excused, but it was a comparatively small amount. i mean stuart robert is again confronted with allegations of mega millions of gov't funds allocated to mates, yet it rarely gets coverage in the murdoch lie factory. and he's only one of the current conservative parliamentary party under such scrutiny.

4. you attempted to conflate the fact that daintree received coverage on the ABC with the coverage in right-wing media. the abc and the guardian - and others like the conversation and 360info quite rightly covered it. they did so by reporting the news with commentary from experts in the field. rather than in a shouty selective manner interpreting the story so it played well with their audience. that isn't only those at the lie factory but those who have left it like smethhurst who now struts the same biased drivel at the age. there's no comparison

5. what should be of real concern is the exercise of public power by unaccountable ministerial advisors. and the public servants due to the change whereby career public servants have been moved out and party political contracted appointments made. both parties do it and it should be a matter of concern.

as the conversation said:

Operation Daintree details an emerging gap in this traditional form of democratic oversight and accountability: the rise of powerful ministerial advisors.

Ministerial advisors are more powerful than ever at all levels of the australian government. For instance, former prime minister Tony Abbott’s chief of staff, Peta Credlin, was widely regarded as one of the most powerful players in the federal government at the time. One Liberal Party insider said of her: “She’s tough, she’s a player, she makes demands, she gives directions, she bawls people out.”

6. and i find it the ultimate form of hypocrisy that the shoutiest person of all on this matter is credlin, the unelected person who wielded enormous power and influence under abbott. and gets kudos among the right ding-battery even though as abbott's key advisor she oversaw him not only losing the leadership but his seat too.

7. the andrews gov't was guilty of unethical and poor management. not corruption. he'll lose quite some bark in the short term and maybe some in the long term. but it's about three and a half years to the next poll and although credlin, blot and co will keep the personal attacks going - counterproductive as they've shown to be - it'll be fish paper wrapping by then. and andrews will have passed on the leadership. with the libs having to make up 20 seats and still more likely than not to be dysfunctional, i'm not sure the alp has much to concern themselves with as things stand.

and i didn't labour at the last poll btw

 

[Bevoman]

The IBAC found the behaviour of the advisers constituted "grey corruption", which it defined as "the bending or breaking of rules, even if that might not amount to criminal behaviour, but that unfairly favours the allies, friends and networks of decision-makers".

Integrity experts urge swift action to rein in 'grey corruption' in Victoria

Integrity experts urge the Andrews government to act swiftly to tackle the risk of "grey corruption" by political staffers, after a damning report by the state's anti-corruption watchdog.

amp.abc.net.au

'Grey corruption' in the Andrews government – podcast

Benita Kolovos tells Jane Lee that though the anti-corruption watchdog has cleared Dan Andrews and his ministers of corrupt conduct, its findings could hit the premier’s legacy

www.theguardian.com

Please cut it out with the pathetic sky news drivel, it’s so far from correct.

Yes, despite the Sky and Murdoch bias, Dan keeps on keeping on.
The only way Dan will not win the next State election is if he does not run.

 

[Romeoh1]

They couldn't say it was corruption because it didn't meet the criminal standard that it is required to for them to say that in Victoria
If it was in NSW, ICAC would most likely call it corruption

And the fed govt standard is even higher again?

i agree that linking you with the moronic right was out of place. apologies.

1. as you say the grey or soft corruption was related to advisors. andrews and his ministers were not found to have acted corruptly, yet the narrative has been to say he and his ministers were found to have acted corruptly. that is bc the right-wing news media has for so long said ibac would find corruption and it would see the end of andrews. wrong! but they still dine out on it.

2. ibac also found that "some transparency and accountability measures have been implemented" something the right has failed to draw attention to. funny that.

3. the contract awarded to the HEF was unethical and not to be excused, but it was a comparatively small amount. i mean stuart robert is again confronted with allegations of mega millions of gov't funds allocated to mates, yet it rarely gets coverage in the murdoch lie factory. and he's only one of the current conservative parliamentary party under such scrutiny.

4. you attempted to conflate the fact that daintree received coverage on the ABC with the coverage in right-wing media. the abc and the guardian - and others like the conversation and 360info quite rightly covered it. they did so by reporting the news with commentary from experts in the field. rather than in a shouty selective manner interpreting the story so it played well with their audience. that isn't only those at the lie factory but those who have left it like smethhurst who now struts the same biased drivel at the age. there's no comparison

5. what should be of real concern is the exercise of public power by unaccountable ministerial advisors. and the public servants due to the change whereby career public servants have been moved out and party political contracted appointments made. both parties do it and it should be a matter of concern.

as the conversation said:



6. and i find it the ultimate form of hypocrisy that the shoutiest person of all on this matter is credlin, the unelected person who wielded enormous power and influence under abbott. and gets kudos among the right ding-battery even though as abbott's key advisor she oversaw him not only losing the leadership but his seat too.

7. the andrews gov't was guilty of unethical and poor management. not corruption. he'll lose quite some bark in the short term and maybe some in the long term. but it's about three and a half years to the next poll and although credlin, blot and co will keep the personal attacks going - counterproductive as they've shown to be - it'll be fish paper wrapping by then. and andrews will have passed on the leadership. with the libs having to make up 20 seats and still more likely than not to be dysfunctional, i'm not sure the alp has much to concern themselves with as things stand.

and i didn't labour at the last poll btw

A sensible, measured response.

 

[Kwality]

With what money? We're drowning in debt as it is.

Soon to have a 1 star rating. How shameful!

Just borrow it from 'mums purse' - no one is looking.
Until the interest bill comes in & you borrow more to pay ... more to pay.....

 

[Kwality]

Yes, despite the Sky and Murdoch bias, Dan keeps on keeping on.
The only way Dan will not win the next State election is if he does not run.

Or someone recalls .....

 

[Kwality]

what should happen to corrupt politicians? is my question

In WA a premier from either side of aisle did a stretch inside.

 

[tandino]

I find it hard to believe that there are advisors in the Premier's Private Office that are off acting as free agents, on their own initiative, in the service of the interests of who exactly?

But in any case the main game is the deficiency of the IBAC act and the laws governing corruption in general. Actual experts with no skin in the game have identified it as a problem. That the government(s) use gaps of their own making to find cover for that conduct isn't news, and shouldn't really satisfy anyone.

 

[wizcapper]

I’m really enjoying you quality posting and would greatly appreciate if you could head over to the Robodebt thread and give us a hand there.
There’s lot to work with there so more hands on deck the better.
Thanks in-advance … keep the anti corruption fight going

That's great, scomo off the list! one more to go and it never happened! Keep it up chaps!

• landslide election
• look at liberal
• scomo
• jeff kennett
• crossing removals and other incomplete projects
• it's not corruption
• usa
• catholicism
• andrews is still the greatest

 

[wizcapper]

Don't understand why Andrews doesn't go harder on fixing this crap. As far as I can tell, he's not personally benefiting... so why is he turning a blind eye? Normally, politicians are happy to feather the nest of big business, or unions because of some kind of quid pro quo that helps them get re-elected. But he's in his third term. He's just won a thumping victory. I mean, the government is literally required to build him a statue.

Why would you want to tarnish your legacy with this sort of stink?

It makes no sense to me.

I'm going to take this as 'crossing removals and other incomplete projects!

• landslide election
• look at liberal
• scomo
• jeff kennett
• crossing removals and other incomplete projects
• it's not corruption
• usa
• catholicism
• andrews is still the greatest

 

[wizcapper]

Sorry I didn't feed into your catholic persecution complex in exactly the right way. Andrews is a campaigner and a catholic. Seems a good fit to me even if it's not precise. Don't see you going through the rest of your predetermined bingo bard quite the same way.

Annnndd we're done. thanks guys!

• landslide election
• look at liberal
• scomo
• jeff kennett
• crossing removals and other incomplete projects
• it's not corruption
• usa
• catholicism
• andrews is still the greatest

Thanks for playing discussing corruption of daniel andrews and his government!... or at least i think that's what we were discussing.... i can't recall anymore!

 

[wizcapper]

i'll shorten the responses for this:

• landslide election
• look at liberal
• scomo
• jeff kennett
• crossing removals and other incomplete projects
• it's not corruption
• usa
• catholicism
• andrews is still the greatest

nothing to see here, move on.

okay folks, a little feedback. this was posted at Wednesday 9:56 am, the final item was marked off at 3:52 pm yesterday (thanks!). there were come notable additions to this list (murdoch media and who could forget the rwnj commetary! lol - great effort). but in my opinion i think that delays like this could give people too much time to think about the balls out of the bath corruption and deception of this government. far be it for me to tell you how to post, but you have to hit them harder and faster with irrelevancies earlier. last thing we need on this page is a genuine forensic review of the andrews government. catch you all for next andrews corruption probe! cheers folks! thanks for playing!

 

[Kwality]

okay folks, a little feedback. this was posted at Wednesday 9:56 am, the final item was marked off at 3:52 pm yesterday (thanks!). there were come notable additions to this list (murdoch media and who could forget the rwnj commetary! lol - great effort). but in my opinion i think that delays like this could give people too much time to think about the balls out of the bath corruption and deception of this government. far be it for me to tell you how to post, but you have to hit them harder and faster with irrelevancies earlier. last thing we need on this page is a genuine forensic review of the andrews government. catch you all for next andrews corruption probe! cheers folks! thanks for playing!

Terrific.

 

[Xtreme]

Maybe Dan could grow a pair and cut the politician salary ? Lead from the front and budget cut yourself first Dan!!!!!!!