Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

[Gralin]

They haven't actually made the city safe for cycling yet

 

[Sttew]

Albert Park Drive has had its speed limit reduced to 40km/h. I complained enquiring what the rationale is. No schools, no pedestrians, no shops. The response I received in writing was that their master plan is to eliminate all cars and make it a cyclist route. This will funnel traffic onto Queens Rd

 

[Gralin]

Albert Park Drive has had its speed limit reduced to 40km/h. I complained enquiring what the rationale is. No schools, no pedestrians, no shops. The response I received in writing was that their master plan is to eliminate all cars and make it a cyclist route. This will funnel traffic onto Queens Rd

Yes and who is making that decision, the local council, Vic roads or the state government?

 

[Sttew]

Yes and who is making that decision, the local council, Vic roads or the state government?

Parks Victoria and The Grand Prix Corporation

 

[swingdog]

I'm certainly not sold on it considering the reported cost and the reported process that took place that led to its announcement. I can, however, appreciate it would be a "if you build it, they will come" project, which I also consider the original Eastern Freeway was, and the East West Link would be.

But the project as currently conceived would pull people away from the CBD rather than pull people back into it. I think we can all agree that the CBD will never be the same, but in 2019 it wasn't like it was in 1985 or even 2005. We need some planning and some foresight into what should and will become of the CBD, and in my opinion, that will require government intervention and leadership. And I'm not sure the Andrews Government has CBD revival as a priority right now.

I would love to see the CBD re-imagined as a residential / destination / office mix much like you would see in other cities (think Manhattan, Paris, Amsterdam) rather than the Los Angeles model we originally adopted. It has been shifting that way but the pandemic has offered an opportunity to accelerate it and go to a much bigger scale, re-purposing space from office to residential.

 

[swingdog]

To be fair, very few people are cycling to their manufacturing job in the outer suburbs.

The cyclists would make up a fair proportion of those who can work from home with no problem. I'm not surprised numbers are down.

I used to run travel surveys in CBD workplaces. On average, about 25% of people working in the CBD lived within 5 km of their office but came by other means (mostly public transport).

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

This is a City of Melbourne issue. Have you driven along William Street lately? It’s a dogs breakfast. If someone is turning left all cars have to wait until the car has turned left. Meanwhile the number of cyclists in the City has not risen and is reportedly down.

I do not care mate. I hope they shut every goddamn street in the city grid off to anything that is not a supply or emergency vehicle.

Ever been to Amsterdam?

That is what our CBD should be.

 

[Sttew]

I do not care mate. I hope they shut every goddamn street in the city grid off to anything that is not a supply or emergency vehicle.

Ever been to Amsterdam?

That is what our CBD should be.

Seven times. My parents are Dutch. I'd love Melbourne to be an Amsterdam, but it so far from a reality it's not worth contemplating. You simply can't compare an Amsterdam with Melbourne. Firstly, the whole of Amsterdam has a population of less than 1 million. Nearby Rotterdam is the commercial centre of the Netherlands where company headquarters are situated. Amsterdam's streets are narrow and with canals, not really conducive to large volumes of vehicle traffic. That said, most of the centre is still open to cars. The whole of Amsterdam's centre is a fraction of the size of our CBD - 8km² v 37km².

The other factor is the cultural one. Amsterdam and all Dutch cities have "grown up" with bikes. They rule the roads. More than 80% of the populations ride bikes and about 50% ride everywhere because the country is flat and compact. In Melbourne I don't know what the % is but it would be about 10% if that, I estimate.

Melbourne on the other hand has the Hoddle Grid and everything radiates out from the grid. Cut that off and you basically strangle Melbourne.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Seven times. My parents are Dutch. I'd love Melbourne to be an Amsterdam, but it so far from a reality it's not worth contemplating. You simply can't compare an Amsterdam with Melbourne. Firstly, the whole of Amsterdam has a population of less than 1 million. Nearby Rotterdam is the commercial centre of the Netherlands where company headquarters are situated. Amsterdam's streets are narrow and with canals, not really conducive to large volumes of vehicle traffic. That said, most of the centre is still open to cars. The whole of Amsterdam's centre is a fraction of the size of our CBD - 8km² v 37km².

Melbourne on the other hand has the Hoddle Grid and everything radiates out from the grid. Cut that off and you basically strangle Melbourne.

Fair enough, you get my point though.

We should be discouraging passenger vehicles from entering the grid. We should be encouraging people to get on a train or a tram. Or walking or cycling. Rita Panahi's argument is that of a moron stuck in the past.

I do not accept that removing cars from the CBD will strangle the city. That is a nonsense. Plenty of advanced cities discourage cars. London is another example. Granted their Tube system is crazy brilliant but even so, this is a re-education process...people default to using their cars at all times. It is most unnecessary, inefficient and frankly stupid.

 

[Millky95]

I used to take the train into uni from the outer suburbs. Was fine until I had late classes or needed to stay into the city until about 8pm. An hour trip on the train is one thing but waiting 30 minutes on top of that, plus the trip from the station to home, would sometimes add up to a 2 hour trip just from leaving class until I talked in the door. Some nights I'd get home at 0030 just to be up again at 0600 just to be back at class the next day.

Soon as I got a job in the city, drove in 90% of the time. The time I got back in my life (50-55 minutes in the car vs 70-80 minutes faffing around with PTV) was well worth it

Moving around the city though, trams were the best unless I was happy to walk

 

[Gralin]

I used to take the train into uni from the outer suburbs. Was fine until I had late classes or needed to stay into the city until about 8pm. An hour trip on the train is one thing but waiting 30 minutes on top of that, plus the trip from the station to home, would sometimes add up to a 2 hour trip just from leaving class until I talked in the door. Some nights I'd get home at 0030 just to be up again at 0600 just to be back at class the next day.

Soon as I got a job in the city, drove in 90% of the time. The time I got back in my life (50-55 minutes in the car vs 70-80 minutes faffing around with PTV) was well worth it

Moving around the city though, trams were the best unless I was happy to walk

I used to drive in because I had free parking and it was expected I have my car with me
Then I changed roles and the car was no longer a requirement but the free parking remained

I was still driving in until I got hit by a truck on the freeway off ramp and was without a car for 6 weeks

I was lucky to live walking distance from a train station, express trains in peak hour took around 50 minutes

Driving in peak hour was similar at the time (2012ish)

Train stayed at 50 minutes, car trips blew out over the following 7 years when I had to take them

Way less effort required with concentration on the train and the ticket was cheaper than the running costs on the car even with the free parking

Still these days if i have to commute into the city I'm looking at between 2-3 hours round trip, its time I'd rather have at home than in transit after the last two years, but for the city I'd still pick the train over the car, pretty much anywhere else the car is going to beat public transport though

 

[Millky95]

I used to drive in because I had free parking and it was expected I have my car with me
Then I changed roles and the car was no longer a requirement but the free parking remained

I was still driving in until I got hit by a truck on the freeway off ramp and was without a car for 6 weeks

I was lucky to live walking distance from a train station, express trains in peak hour took around 50 minutes

Driving in peak hour was similar at the time (2012ish)

Train stayed at 50 minutes, car trips blew out over the following 7 years when I had to take them

Way less effort required with concentration on the train and the ticket was cheaper than the running costs on the car even with the free parking

Still these days if i have to commute into the city I'm looking at between 2-3 hours round trip, its time I'd rather have at home than in transit after the last two years, but for the city I'd still pick the train over the car, pretty much anywhere else the car is going to beat public transport though

I never really had a "9-5" job in the city FWIW, I was always starting at like 7-8am, in the afternoon after peak hour or at like midnight. So I managed to miss the major peak hour traffic issues unless there was a crash or something

Time travelling to work is, imo, one of the biggest cons of our lives

 

[Gralin]

I never really had a "9-5" job in the city FWIW, I was always starting at like 7-8am, in the afternoon after peak hour or at like midnight. So I managed to miss the major peak hour traffic issues unless there was a crash or something

Time travelling to work is, imo, one of the biggest cons of our lives

Used to be that 8-4 was a decent drive
You'd be about an hour each way on average
Alternative was 10-6

But then more people started time shifting and it was 7-3 or 11-7 if you could swing it

The beauty of the train for me was i didn't have to try and plan around traffic but i worked with guys that did

 

[tandino]

I used to take the train into uni from the outer suburbs. Was fine until I had late classes or needed to stay into the city until about 8pm. An hour trip on the train is one thing but waiting 30 minutes on top of that, plus the trip from the station to home, would sometimes add up to a 2 hour trip just from leaving class until I talked in the door. Some nights I'd get home at 0030 just to be up again at 0600 just to be back at class the next day.

Soon as I got a job in the city, drove in 90% of the time. The time I got back in my life (50-55 minutes in the car vs 70-80 minutes faffing around with PTV) was well worth it

Moving around the city though, trams were the best unless I was happy to walk

If you live in an area well served by public transport, then you're golden.

I'm not in the city enough to care much about the bike lanes, but it seems to be making it more convenient for people who generally are already well served by PT, at the expense of people who are generally poorly served by PT.

(Not withstanding the outlier of someone's uncle who bikes in every day from Pakenham)

 

[tandino]

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Are the 000 services still dealing with cvoidiots wanting an ambo to take them to hospital just for being symptomatic?

 

[Gralin]

Are the 000 services still dealing with cvoidiots wanting an ambo to take them to hospital just for being symptomatic?

dunno but Merlino and someone else got asked today what people should do if 000 doesn't pick up and they said call 000

 

[Opine]

Village idiot Rita Panahi is all over it today.

Bike paths will destroy the CBD she says.

The bloke in your avatar once wrote that Melbourne is a cauldron of hatred, a witch's brew of loaded labels, mindless epithets and raw [political] sectarianism…. Your comment above is a prime example of the sort of shit he was describing.

One of a Capital city's primary functions is to communicate responsible balance of physical and aspirational elements of social relevance through example. Environmental responsibility should go hand in hand with responsible modernism and commercialism. What's needed is a locally appropriate means of accommodating a broadly dispersed whole of Melbourne into the CBD. Majorly throwing out motor vehicles to accommodate bikes, rather than encouraging a switch to EV, isn't the answer as it would primarily benefit those who live within riding distance.

 

[tandino]

Are the 000 services still dealing with cvoidiots wanting an ambo to take them to hospital just for being symptomatic?

Probably just as many as the other states, unless we are especially stupid down here.

 

[Gralin]

The bloke in your avatar once wrote that Melbourne is a cauldron of hatred, a witch's brew of loaded labels, mindless epithets and raw [political] sectarianism…. Your comment above is a prime example of the sort of sh*t he was describing.

One of a Capital city's primary functions is to communicate responsible balance of physical and aspirational elements of social relevance through example. Environmental responsibility should go hand in hand with responsible modernism and commercialism. What's needed is a locally appropriate means of accommodating a broadly dispersed whole of Melbourne into the CBD. Majorly throwing out motor vehicles to accommodate bikes, rather than encouraging a switch to EV, isn't the answer as it would primarily benefit those who live within riding distance.

Switching from petrol to EV but changing nothing else about how we currently use cars isn't feasible or beneficial

People that write articles trying to sabotage attempts to change our city planning from car centric should get in the bin because they aren't helping

We need to decentralize work, we need alternatives to driving, we need much better short travel options and communities built for those shorter travel options

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

The bloke in your avatar once wrote that Melbourne is a cauldron of hatred, a witch's brew of loaded labels, mindless epithets and raw [political] sectarianism…. Your comment above is a prime example of the sort of sh*t he was describing.

One of a Capital city's primary functions is to communicate responsible balance of physical and aspirational elements of social relevance through example. Environmental responsibility should go hand in hand with responsible modernism and commercialism. What's needed is a locally appropriate means of accommodating a broadly dispersed whole of Melbourne into the CBD. Majorly throwing out motor vehicles to accommodate bikes, rather than encouraging a switch to EV, isn't the answer as it would primarily benefit those who live within riding distance.

You're as narrow minded as Panahi.

The great cities of the western world have superior public transit systems that decongest their central areas allowing for cleaner air, less congestion and better foot traffic. Something Andrews (and the City of Melbourne) is trying to catch up on after decades of mismanagement by largely conservative governments.

More cars in built up areas, EV or otherwise is never the answer. We need to invest heavily on quicker, more frequent, more reliable and more available public transport (as well as encouraging those closer to the CBD to walk or cycle instead of drive). Panahi complaining about accommodating cyclists and people like you having her back are everything that is wrong with this world.

 

[Opine]

You're as narrow minded as Panahi.

The great cities of the western world have superior public transit systems that decongest their central areas allowing for cleaner air, less congestion and better foot traffic. Something Andrews (and the City of Melbourne) is trying to catch up on after decades of mismanagement by largely conservative governments.

More cars in built up areas, EV or otherwise is never the answer. We need to invest heavily on quicker, more frequent, more reliable and more available public transport (as well as encouraging those closer to the CBD to walk or cycle instead of drive). Panahi complaining about accommodating cyclists and people like you having her back are everything that is wrong with this world.

Well, you broadminded genius: We're not a forking great city in Europe are we!!!
We are Melbourne, and our population is uniquely dispersed, so we design our solutions accordingly.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Well, you broadminded genius: We're not a forking great city in Europe are we!!!
We are Melbourne, and our population is uniquely dispersed, so we design our solutions accordingly.

We should aspire to be better instead of putting band-aids over gaping wounds like you and your ignorant mate Rita would have us do.

I thought Gralin made some very good points on the matter, only some of which were reflected in my most recent post.

And if you think our population is any more "uniquely dispersed," whatever the hell that argument is, than other cities of our size then you need to travel more.

 

[Opine]

Switching from petrol to EV but changing nothing else about how we currently use cars isn't feasible or beneficial

People that write articles trying to sabotage attempts to change our city planning from car centric should get in the bin because they aren't helping

We need to decentralize work, we need alternatives to driving, we need much better short travel options and communities built for those shorter travel options

Evolution not revolution.

No one is saying to merely focus on EV. Conversely, "Hawke" is saying to merely focus on bikes. We need an appropriately suited combination.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Evolution no revolution.

No one is saying to merely focus on EV. Conversely, "Hawke" is saying to merely focus on bikes. We need an appropriately suited combination.

Is that what I am "merely" saying?

Are your eyes painted on?