Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

[Gralin]

Or maybe in places like Tarneit and Cranbourne, it's just far more efficient to provide car parks at $25k per space for the next 10-15 years than to provide bus services ($1m per bus per year) which will carry only a fraction of all the people who want to use PT, will take longer and be less comfortable (weather etc?). Without car parks they might just drive to their end destination instead.

I'm saying the investment in car parks which is allegedly cheap doesn't actually solve the majority of issue with PT and just encourages more car usage

That far to much of PT problem solving is just build more car parks at stations

And again, there is no planning for new PT infrastructure with new housing estates

I live near a new estate that has a train line going through the edge of the estate and they are not building a station as part of the development

So they are going to put several thousand new houses in and not add to the capacity of the existing parking or provide a new station on existing track

doubt there will be any changes to bus routes or services to accommodate either, or if there is it will just be adding more stops onto existing routes making the bus less attractive

we don't run public transport well in Vic, its a political football and the need to farm different parts of it out to private contracts doesn't help either

PTV should be an independent funded organization like Vic Roads is so they can budget and plan with more autonomy

 

[The Punter]

I'm saying the investment in car parks which is allegedly cheap doesn't actually solve the majority of issue with PT and just encourages more car usage

That far to much of PT problem solving is just build more car parks at stations

And again, there is no planning for new PT infrastructure with new housing estates

I live near a new estate that has a train line going through the edge of the estate and they are not building a station as part of the development

So they are going to put several thousand new houses in and not add to the capacity of the existing parking or provide a new station on existing track

doubt there will be any changes to bus routes or services to accommodate either, or if there is it will just be adding more stops onto existing routes making the bus less attractive

we don't run public transport well in Vic, its a political football and the need to farm different parts of it out to private contracts doesn't help either

PTV should be an independent funded organization like Vic Roads is so they can budget and plan with more autonomy

Without outing your exact location, you live near a line which is run by V/Line but should be electrified and added to the metro network, right?

 

[Pessimistic]

I'm saying the investment in car parks which is allegedly cheap doesn't actually solve the majority of issue with PT and just encourages more car usage

That far to much of PT problem solving is just build more car parks at stations

And again, there is no planning for new PT infrastructure with new housing estates

I live near a new estate that has a train line going through the edge of the estate and they are not building a station as part of the development

So they are going to put several thousand new houses in and not add to the capacity of the existing parking or provide a new station on existing track

doubt there will be any changes to bus routes or services to accommodate either, or if there is it will just be adding more stops onto existing routes making the bus less attractive

we don't run public transport well in Vic, its a political football and the need to farm different parts of it out to private contracts doesn't help either

PTV should be an independent funded organization like Vic Roads is so they can budget and plan with more autonomy

I think you’ll find VicRoads is now a shell containing not much left of what’s been moved elsewhere

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Or maybe in places like Tarneit and Cranbourne, it's just far more efficient to provide car parks at $25k per space for the next 10-15 years than to provide bus services ($1m per bus per year) which will carry only a fraction of all the people who want to use PT, will take longer and be less comfortable (weather etc?). Without car parks they might just drive to their end destination instead.

Cranny needs better bus services, hell if we could plan in hindsight there should be tram network coming out of Dandy.

Make Dandy a 2nd CBD with some good PT around it.

 

[Pessimistic]

Cranny needs better bus services, hell if we could plan in hindsight there should be tram network coming out of Dandy.

Make Dandy a 2nd CBD with some good PT around it.

Suburban loop says no

 

[Gralin]

Without outing your exact location, you live near a line which is run by V/Line but should be electrified and added to the metro network, right?

Nope this is just standard as developers councils and state governments all buck pass on infrastructure to support new residents developments

Its not a new issue but it's certainly not one Andrews has addressed

 

[Gralin]

And the biggest problem with not tackling it now is retrofit is often more expensive or impossible

 

[Saint]

Cranny needs better bus services, hell if we could plan in hindsight there should be tram network coming out of Dandy.

Make Dandy a 2nd CBD with some good PT around it.

It's not dense enough, nor are the jobs centralised. All the jobs in Dandy are shiftwork spread through industrial areas. Almost everywhere in Vic needs better bus services, but densities in places like Cranbourne can't justify it.

Nobody has even attempted to address the problem because they only look at it as a transport problem. But the transport problem is caused by poor planning mixed with NIMBYism/human nature/inefficient stamp duties.

 

[Pessimistic]

It's not dense enough, nor are the jobs centralised. All the jobs in Dandy are shiftwork spread through industrial areas. Almost everywhere in Vic needs better bus services, but densities in places like Cranbourne can't justify it.

Nobody has even attempted to address the problem because they only look at it as a transport problem. But the transport problem is caused by poor planning mixed with NIMBYism/human nature/inefficient stamp duties.

Organisations are happy to pay for goods to be transported to and from, but not their most valuable resource, people

Makes you wonder

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Victorian Labor Senator Kimberley Kitching has died suddenly, aged 52. A lovely talented lady, much too young.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Or maybe in places like Tarneit and Cranbourne, it's just far more efficient to provide car parks at $25k per space for the next 10-15 years than to provide bus services ($1m per bus per year) which will carry only a fraction of all the people who want to use PT, will take longer and be less comfortable (weather etc?). Without car parks they might just drive to their end destination instead.

It really isn't though. Cranbourne at the moment has 600 odd carpark spaces. Tarneit has a 1000 carpark spaces. Given the vast majority of the cars that go park at a train station on a weekday are single occupant cars you the amount of people using the carpark might fill up one single train. All filled up by 7AM. So if someone wants to head into the city at say 10AM a decides to drive to the station they're out of luck.
In reality the vast majority of patronage at a train station doesn't come from people driving.

Cranbourne and Tarneit lack usable public transport from the station. They lack usable active walking and cycling routes.

Not quite

If you read your own link the argument is for more buses and trams to feed people to stations.

Tarneit is f’ed for buses from my understanding

Compared to a lot of stations they're good. One thing they got right with the RRL stations was the buses. Tarneit has 8 routes going in all directions. Wyndham Vale has 4. Both have a mix of direct trunk(Routes like the 150, 160, 170, 180 and 190) that go in a straight line along with more normal buses that go off the main roads.
The frequency is what kills it though along with it having to share the road with everyone trying to exit the station.

And the biggest problem with not tackling it now is retrofit is often more expensive or impossible

Some places they've thought of it. The RRL there's spots for a few stations. The issue is these days stations have to be dead straight and dead flat. No curves or grades are permitted.

 

[Saint]

Organisations are happy to pay for goods to be transported to and from, but not their most valuable resource, people

Makes you wonder

The question is the most efficient way of transporting them. And in low-density employment and housing areas, the most efficient way is by private vehicle.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

 

[Saint]

It really isn't though. Cranbourne at the moment has 600 odd carpark spaces. Tarneit has a 1000 carpark spaces. Given the vast majority of the cars that go park at a train station on a weekday are single occupant cars you the amount of people using the carpark might fill up one single train. All filled up by 7AM. So if someone wants to head into the city at say 10AM a decides to drive to the station they're out of luck.
In reality the vast majority of patronage at a train station doesn't come from people driving.

Cranbourne and Tarneit lack usable public transport from the station. They lack usable active walking and cycling routes.


Compared to a lot of stations they're good. One thing they got right with the RRL stations was the buses. Tarneit has 8 routes going in all directions. Wyndham Vale has 4. Both have a mix of direct trunk(Routes like the 150, 160, 170, 180 and 190) that go in a straight line along with more normal buses that go off the main roads.
The frequency is what kills it though along with it having to share the road with everyone trying to exit the station.


Some places they've thought of it. The RRL there's spots for a few stations. The issue is these days stations have to be dead straight and dead flat. No curves or grades are permitted.

So if you want to double the frequency, you double the cost, for what marginal benefit? Tarneit's catchment is greater than 5km radius, and a decent walking radius is less than 1km. Plus, everyone out there owns a car, they have to for the 100 other things they want to do which aren't directly along the rail line. Once you own a car and pay rego, insurance etc, the economics of not driving it are ridiculous. And if it's raining?

Tarneit's walking and cycling facilities are actually very good compared to suburbs of the 70's 80's or 90's. But people still want to drive to the station for a myriad of reasons (heavy equipment, weather, errands to/from station).

To run an extra 3 services in AM and PM is about $3m per year, that's 120 spaces which would last 50 years. In 20 years when density increases and services are greater, start replacing car parking with bus services (which might actually be near-full). When Wyndham stadium station is built, that will reduce Tarneit's catchment and reduce % of drivers to the station.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

So if you want to double the frequency, you double the cost, for what marginal benefit? Tarneit's catchment is greater than 5km radius, and a decent walking radius is less than 1km. Plus, everyone out there owns a car, they have to for the 100 other things they want to do which aren't directly along the rail line. Once you own a car and pay rego, insurance etc, the economics of not driving it are ridiculous. And if it's raining?

Tarneit's walking and cycling facilities are actually very good compared to suburbs of the 70's 80's or 90's. But people still want to drive to the station for a myriad of reasons (heavy equipment, weather, errands to/from station).

To run an extra 3 services in AM and PM is about $3m per year, that's 120 spaces which would last 50 years. In 20 years when density increases and services are greater, start replacing car parking with bus services (which might actually be near-full). When Wyndham stadium station is built, that will reduce Tarneit's catchment and reduce % of drivers to the station.

How much does it cost to maintain the space? How much does it cost to maintain the roads leading to the station? Extra spots at the station is extra maintenance. It's extra wear on the roads as more cars use it.

 

[Saint]

How much does it cost to maintain the space? How much does it cost to maintain the roads leading to the station? Extra spots at the station is extra maintenance. It's extra wear on the roads as more cars use it.

It's incredibly small. The maintenance on a car parking space is probably less than $100 per year. Cars place almost no stress on roads either. They're built for buses and trucks, which do most of any damage that roads suffer (other than severe weather events). It's like blaming seagulls for wear and tear on a footy oval.

 

[Gethelred]

Albert Park Drive has had its speed limit reduced to 40km/h. I complained enquiring what the rationale is. No schools, no pedestrians, no shops. The response I received in writing was that their master plan is to eliminate all cars and make it a cyclist route. This will funnel traffic onto Queens Rd

Could have something to do with all the sport that goes on in there, the pedestrian traffic, the dogs, etc. Over a weekend in summer, there are never any less than 6 games of cricket going on at any given time, and in the morning that's mostly kids.

Was in there coaching a game a few weeks back, and during the game cops pinged about twenty people speeding through there.

 

[Gethelred]

Jesus but Lord Marshall makes me think of the Children of Light sounds very much like a religious militia rather than say fighters of earthly fire

'Fighters of earthly fire' sounds like a religious militia too...

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Organisations are happy to pay for goods to be transported to and from, but not their most valuable resource, people

Makes you wonder

People are dispensable you see.

 

[Pessimistic]

The question is the most efficient way of transporting them. And in low-density employment and housing areas, the most efficient way is by private vehicle.

I think we see a lot more people in forums being anti car than the actual number of people who have forsaken their own car.

They have a place

 

[Saint]

I think we see a lot more people in forums being anti car than the actual number of people who have forsaken their own car.

They have a place

NOBODY is going to use the Airport Rail Link. EVERYONE is thinking other people will use it, to free up congestion so that THEY can use the road.

I'd have a lobotomy before I tried to get the kids to/from an airport, with luggage, via train. And if work are paying for an 8am flight, I'm definitely not catching a suburban train to Southern Cross at 5:30am, to be able to connect to the airport.

Can anybody say they're actually going to catch a train from Southern Cross to the airport? If there's 2 people, a taxi would be cheaper.

 

[Hornberger]

To run an extra 3 services in AM and PM is about $3m per year, that's 120 spaces which would last 50 years.

What exactly do you mean by running an extra three services in the AM and PM, and how did you get to a cost estimate of $3m per year?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

NOBODY is going to use the Airport Rail Link. EVERYONE is thinking other people will use it, to free up congestion so that THEY can use the road.

I'd have a lobotomy before I tried to get the kids to/from an airport, with luggage, via train. And if work are paying for an 8am flight, I'm definitely not catching a suburban train to Southern Cross at 5:30am, to be able to connect to the airport.

Can anybody say they're actually going to catch a train from Southern Cross to the airport? If there's 2 people, a taxi would be cheaper.

airport rail is great - i used it all the time when in sydney

and i currently use skybus, so it will be an improvement on that

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Politics is an ugly business

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/bill-shorten-weeps-reveals-meeting-ahead-of-kimberly-kitchings-death/news-story/ac62102eb3e86e7a35e2bcb501feabbd

 

[Gralin]

NOBODY is going to use the Airport Rail Link. EVERYONE is thinking other people will use it, to free up congestion so that THEY can use the road.

I'd have a lobotomy before I tried to get the kids to/from an airport, with luggage, via train. And if work are paying for an 8am flight, I'm definitely not catching a suburban train to Southern Cross at 5:30am, to be able to connect to the airport.

Can anybody say they're actually going to catch a train from Southern Cross to the airport? If there's 2 people, a taxi would be cheaper.

there is actually a lot of people that would use the airport rail

skybus and taxi don't want it for a reason