Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 7

[Ghost Patrol]

So Melbourne's population has grown larger than Sydney?

I suppose we can blame all those people that said they were leaving, but didn't.

Because surely it's not Dan's fault.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

So Melbourne's population has grown larger than Sydney?

I suppose we can blame all those people that said they were leaving, but didn't.

Because surely it's not Dan's fault.

Depends on what we define as Melbourne it seems.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Reckon they could look at knocking off the giant ****ing staffing payroll (min offices) and all the stupid outsourcing ahead of cutting useful stuff and probably people.

 

[royale with cheese]

Reckon they could look at knocking off the giant ******* staffing payroll (min offices) and all the stupid outsourcing ahead of cutting useful stuff and probably people.

Destroy patronage networks? Hardly.

 

[The Punter]

On public service cuts, this is how delightfully government works these days.

The massive increase in middle and upper management, the proliferation of statutory authorities, is all the decision of Ministers and Cabinet.

When it comes time to cut, the DTF Secretary writes to heads of agencies and tells them where they need to arrive as far as budget savings are concerned, but leaves the work (and the responsibility for individual sackings) up to them.

Then if the public service causes a problem by sacking the wrong people, the Ministers can come in and save them.

Another way government has deteriorated in the last 25 years across all jurisdictions and persuasions of government.

 

[Crankyhawk]

On public service cuts, this is how delightfully government works these days.

The massive increase in middle and upper management, the proliferation of statutory authorities, is all the decision of Ministers and Cabinet.

When it comes time to cut, the DTF Secretary writes to heads of agencies and tells them where they need to arrive as far as budget savings are concerned, but leaves the work (and the responsibility for individual sackings) up to them.

Then if the public service causes a problem by sacking the wrong people, the Ministers can come in and save them.

Another way government has deteriorated in the last 25 years across all jurisdictions and persuasions of government.

The current standard (in our organisation) is 360 degree feedback -so the junior nurse or clerical staff member can have a say in how the frontline ED consultant is perceived/ behaviour

Would love the opportunity as a frontline person to provide this feedback on useless chunts of middle management/ upper management.

 

[The Punter]

The current standard (in our organisation) is 360 degree feedback -so the junior nurse or clerical staff member can have a say in how the frontline ED consultant is perceived/ behaviour

Would love the opportunity as a frontline person to provide this feedback on useless chunts of middle management/ upper management.

It grates on me that the expansion of the middle and upper management was, at least as far as Departments were concerned, an issue that was solved and then recreated in Victoria. The APS has always maintained its bloated middle.

 

[Crankyhawk]

It grates on me that the expansion of the middle and upper management was, at least as far as Departments were concerned, an issue that was solved and then recreated in Victoria. The APS has always maintained its bloated middle.

My view - no management role without some frontline component.
any management without a frontline component needs to justify existence regularly and should be subject to the whim and control of the frontline.

In health care this can be summed up as "tell me what do you do for the patient/ carer".

 

[royale with cheese]

the APS is managers managing managers who manage managers. While some poor 26 year old APS 5 is expected to be the technical expert who does all the work.

 

[The Punter]

My view - no management role without some frontline component.
any management without a frontline component needs to justify existence regularly and should be subject to the whim and control of the frontline.

In health care this can be summed up as "tell me what do you do for the patient/ carer".

I respect the insight you bring in this space Cranky and your willingness to engage on the issues. And I can understand where you are coming from.

But I wouldn't think the CFO needs frontline care experience. That role just needs someone balancing their view about the financial bottom line. Jobs everywhere are getting more specialised, and have been doing so for many years. I think what you need is strong leaders and a wide range of relevant views.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I respect the insight you bring in this space Cranky and your willingness to engage on the issues. And I can understand where you are coming from.

But I wouldn't think the CFO needs frontline care experience. That role just needs someone balancing their view about the financial bottom line. Jobs everywhere are getting more specialised, and have been doing so for many years. I think what you need is strong leaders and a wide range of relevant views.

Yeah that's fair (about a CFO); however (and I didn't explicitly articulate this so my bad) I was referencing middle management who exist only to try to tell frontline how to do their job/ impose constraints on workflow/ deny extra staffing when needed - ie middle management which interferes with frontline

The CFO role doesn't directly interfere with our workflow (though perhaps if you ask someone in equipment/ procurement they might say the same things about the CFO needing to keep hand in some frontline aspect of negotiations, i don't know)

 

[Magnum27]

So Melbourne's population has grown larger than Sydney?

I suppose we can blame all those people that said they were leaving, but didn't.

Because surely it's not Dan's fault.

Blame covid, people couldn't do much else

 

[peetoo]

One meeting last year the themes were how frontline ‘needs to do more with less’ and the second theme was how a dozen or so executive committee would be created including….. a comitteee to investigate information flows between the various executive committees.

If an episode of utopia had that theme it would be thought too far fetched

 

[Crankyhawk]

One meeting last year the themes were how frontline ‘needs to do more with less’ and the second theme was how a dozen or so executive committee would be created including….. a comitteee to investigate information flows between the various executive committees.

If an episode of utopia had that theme it would be thought too far fetched

f**k me can we find a way to circulate that all these committees are now redundant and save how many millions of dollars

 

[Crankyhawk]

oh yeah, the other thing these committees do is they favor the politically connected hospitals - the Alfred and the RMH ahead of mine, so I get **** all staff, **** all resources yet we still offload more than our fair share of ambulances in a more timely fashion than those over resourced teriatries.
They could do with a bit of funding cut.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Out of cash. So (if we are prepared to be ethically horrible)

• recognition that everyone dies
• recognition that most health care expenses come in the last year of life
• that for many (not all) people in aged care, that last year of life is associated with pain, dementia, loneliness
• so an expansion of the VAD legislation…. Would open up bed access and reduce ambulance demand in the medium term…

Like I said ethically bankrupt but from a budget perspective…

This doesn't seem to be the case.

For all the "cuts to health" hysteria, the only major line items I've seen is the removal of duplication in advocacy/advertising budget for community health programs.

Spending on hospitals, wages etc. will be increasing.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

the APS is managers managing managers who manage managers. While some poor 26 year old APS 5 is expected to be the technical expert who does all the work.

And when the 26 year old doesn't have the requisite skills, they bring in a consultant that costs 3x as much.

 

[adogsfan5]

 

[Kwality]

From the horses mouth:

IBAC report highlights improper influence and bypassed procurement processes in Victorian Government health worker training contract

Today the Independent Broad-based Anti-corruption Commission (IBAC) tabled a special report in Parliament highlighting how improper influence compromised the procurement process for a $1.2 million contract awarded to a union-established training group, and compromised the management of the contract.

ibac.vic.gov.au

Coming soon:

Operation Daintree special report overview | IBAC

Independant Broad-based Anti-corruption Commission

ibac.vic.gov.au

 

[Kwality]

'The key concern for the anti-corruption commission was the behaviour of advisers working for Mr Andrews and former health ministers Jill Hennessy and Jenny Mikakos. Both women have since left parliament.'

'But IBAC's report, tabled in state parliament on Wednesday morning, stopped short of findings of corrupt conduct, instead saying Mr Andrews should be accountable to parliament for the behaviour of his staff.'

'"[Operation Daintree] did however reveal a range of concerning conduct and omissions in breach of the public duties and ethical obligations of ministers and ministerial advisors,'' the report said. '

'"It also identified conduct by senior public servants that fell short of the required Victorian public sector standards."
The key concern for the anti-corruption commission was the behaviour of advisers working for Mr Andrews and former health ministers Jill Hennessy and Jenny Mikakos. Both women have since left parliament.'

 

[The Punter]

Yet another reason to stop talking about fringe issues.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

No doubt a bunch of advisers will be thrown under the bus

 

[The Punter]

No doubt a bunch of advisers will be thrown under the bus

I would also suggest two former ministers now outside parliament are also likely to be under that bus.

 

[wizcapper]

i'll shorten the responses for this:

• landslide election
• look at liberal
• scomo
• jeff kennett
• crossing removals and other incomplete projects
• it's not corruption
• usa
• catholicism
• andrews is still the greatest

nothing to see here, move on.

 

[Kwality]

i'll shorten the responses for this:

• landslide election
• look at liberal
• scomo
• jeff kennett
• crossing removals and other incomplete projects
• it's not corruption
• usa
• catholicism
• andrews is still the greatest

nothing to see here, move on.

Thats the pure politics of the state of play around Dan. The game is not over, what now ?