Hurley vs Martin

[Powered Up]

I would be more interested in these 2 compared to the other poll featuring Zaharakis and Vickery also.
2 of the games best youngsters who would you want Hurley or Martin.

 

[DapperDon]

Depends if you wanted a very promising midfielder or a very promising KPP.

I'm not a fan of comparing mids to talls.

 

[TheOldXav]

If Essendon had the choice b/w a potential elite midfielder V a potential elite KPP, they would pull the trigger on the midfielder 10/10.

That isn't downplaying Martin either. I have seen him go forward and kick 5 goals from CHF and render AA defenders useless.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

in previous similar polls it's been pretty much universally accepted that you choose the good big guy over the good little guy.

I see no reason why this would be any different

 

[juss]

in previous similar polls it's been pretty much universally accepted that you choose the good big guy over the good little guy.

I see no reason why this would be any different

Performance to date?

Yes Martin's played with more continuity, yes KPPs take longer than mids, yes Hurley has changed positions and hasn't "settled". Still, Martin has outperformed him thus far, despite being drafted a year later and playing less overall games (though as said, injuries play their part there).

The only argument you could make for Hurley is based on potential or scope for improvement. I would argue that Martin however has the potential to be a top 5 player in the game, so has just as much if not more potential/upside.

 

[Elite Master]

I think both will be absolute super stars of the game in their respected playing positions, but as for our needs I think I would side with Hurley just because he is a KP with serious versatility.

Martin may very well end up the superior player though, his on the verge of becoming the next Chris Judd (West Coast model.)

 

[Donakebab]

If Essendon had the choice b/w a potential elite midfielder V a potential elite KPP, they would pull the trigger on the midfielder 10/10.

That isn't downplaying Martin either. I have seen him go forward and kick 5 goals from CHF and render AA defenders useless.

He kicked 5 against a hapless Brisbane containing no AA defender, but don't let facts get in the way.

 

[TheOldXav]

He kicked 5 against a hapless Brisbane containing no AA defender, but don't let facts get in the way.

The reference to rendering AA defenders applies to other games. He probably kicked the ultimate goal on the back of a show of strength against an AA Premiership defender earlier in the year.

Most who saw it were simply an awe.

 

[juss]

The reference to rendering AA defenders applies to other games. He probably kicked the ultimate goal on the back of a show of strength against an AA Premiership defender earlier in the year.

Most who saw it were simply an awe.

You're reffering to the goal against Harry O?
Great goal. Martin was one of the only ones who could hold his head up high that day, had something like 25 touches and 2 quality goals against you guys.

 

[RichoLedio]

Went with Martin, both seem to get overrated at times

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

Performance to date?

Yes Martin's played with more continuity, yes KPPs take longer than mids, yes Hurley has changed positions and hasn't "settled". Still, Martin has outperformed him thus far, despite being drafted a year later and playing less overall games (though as said, injuries play their part there).

The only argument you could make for Hurley is based on potential or scope for improvement. I would argue that Martin however has the potential to be a top 5 player in the game, so has just as much if not more potential/upside.

Those are some fair points and by choosing Hurley you would have to put a lot of faith in potential.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

I'm fence sitting. We have Franklin, Gunston & Roughead up forward so don't need Hurley there. However, he would slot in nicely down back for us. On the other hand, Martin would be a real boost to our midfield....

I'm going to say Michael Hurley with no great conviction. Good big players are harder to find than good mids.

 

[Old Skool]

Depends if you wanted a very promising midfielder or a very promising KPP.

I chose Hurley on a North needs basis, but that doesn't mean i think he is a monty to end up being a better player.

 

[bombermick]

Both do some amazing things, with both winning games for their clubs. I'd say both need to work on getting more easier possessions, because atm every possession is hard-fought.

My bias and natural inclination to choose the big guy says Hurley, but every club would be happy with either.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

At any given time I'd say there would be 5-10 elite mids in the game with a further 10 on the cusp of reaching that title/sitting just outside that title. They are a dime a dozen. I could really only name a couple of pure forwards that I would consider elite at the moment

If anything, the greater number of elite midfielders highlights the need and importance of getting as much quality into your own as possible.

Martin would probably ensure our midfield strength keeps us in the top 4 for the next 5+ years.

I'd be confident enough of finding enough quality talls to do the job in this period, considering the increase and quality of forward entries you'd expect more often than not.

 

[Ealesy]

If Essendon had the choice b/w a potential elite midfielder V a potential elite KPP, they would pull the trigger on the midfielder 10/10.

Of course we would, as we've already got the potential elite KPP in Hurley. So not really sure what point you are making, is that if we could give up Hurley and get Martin in return we would jump at the chance because I honestly believe that is a complete crock of shit.

Obviously when it was a choice between Hurley and other highly rated, possibly potentially elite midfielders back in 2008 we also went with the potentially elite KKP.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Obviously when it was a choice between Hurley and other highly rated, possibly potentially elite midfielders back in 2008 we also went with the potentially elite KKP.

Exactly. Rich was considered a top line elite mid, and we passed him over for Hurley.

 

[TheOldXav]

Obviously when it was a choice between Hurley and other highly rated, possibly potentially elite midfielders back in 2008 we also went with the potentially elite KKP.

Your coach had to be over-ruled at the last minute to not pull the trigger on Sidebottom, who at that time, was hardly rated as a top shelf midfielder. Rich slided & most clubs jumped off him pre-draft, there is little doubt that if Stephen Hill was available at Essendon's pick, he would have gone.

The class of midfielder depth in the 08' draft was impressive but it was no-were near the topend quality of the following year. Scully, Trengrove & Martin were (pre-draft) quite a few notches above the previous midfield draft class.

Given your own club was making up it's mind at the last minute regarding a borderline midfielder V a KPP, there is little doubt they would have pulled the trigger on a Martin (who had claims to being the No 1 player in his draft) if he was in that particular mix.

 

[DapperDon]

Rich slided & most clubs jumped off him pre-draft, there is little doubt that if Stephen Hill was available at Essendon's pick, he would have gone.

Hill?

The guy everyone laughed at Freo at for taking such a speculative pick so early? Seeing as we passed on Rich and Yarran who came with massive plaudits what makes you think we'd jump at Hill at the time?

Please stop talking about things you clearly no nothing about.

 

[Jobe Watson]

If anything, the greater number of elite midfielders highlights the need and importance of getting as much quality into your own as possible.

Thing is though, most teams do have an elite midfielder or one close to it/on the rung below. Port (Boak isn't there yet), GWS and Melbourne are the only teams that I would consider to not have this player (perhaps Brisbane too, though Rockliff is close enough).

How many teams have elite or near enough Key Forward on their list? Only a few. Having a gun KPP would set you apart from the pack.

I can see the need of having more than 1 elite in your midfield but to be honest, I'd still say the elite KPP player is more important.

 

[RichoLedio]

Thing is though, most teams do have an elite midfielder or one close to it/on the rung below. Port (Boak isn't there yet), GWS and Melbourne are the only teams that I would consider to not have this player (perhaps Brisbane too, though Rockliff is close enough).

How many teams have elite or near enough Key Forward on their list? Only a few. Having a gun KPP would set you apart from the pack.

I can see the need of having more than 1 elite in your midfield but to be honest, I'd still say the elite KPP player is more important.

I'd say they are equally important given that we were terrible with Richo, Carlton weren't great with Fev and St Kilda struggled with Lockett, put a couple of gun midfielders in these sides and they may have been much more competitive.

Then there's sides with gun midfields and average forwards who do well, like West Coast 2006

 

[Bombers 2014]

Your coach had to be over-ruled at the last minute to not pull the trigger on Sidebottom, who at that time, was hardly rated as a top shelf midfielder. Rich slided & most clubs jumped off him pre-draft, there is little doubt that if Stephen Hill was available at Essendon's pick, he would have gone.

The class of midfielder depth in the 08' draft was impressive but it was no-were near the topend quality of the following year. Scully, Trengrove & Martin were (pre-draft) quite a few notches above the previous midfield draft class.

Given your own club was making up it's mind at the last minute regarding a borderline midfielder V a KPP, there is little doubt they would have pulled the trigger on a Martin (who had claims to being the No 1 player in his draft) if he was in that particular mix.

Actually, The recruiting staff went to Hurley's place the day before to let him know.

 

[Jobe Watson]

I'd say they are equally important given that we were terrible with Richo, Carlton weren't great with Fev and St Kilda struggled with Lockett, put a couple of gun midfielders in these sides and they may have been much more competitive.

Those are good points, but it can work either way. Brisbane would look lost without J.Brown up front despite having a good midfield, for exampe. As you said though, it's best to have a mix of both - I just think that elite mids are much easier to draft or recruit than elite forwards, and as such aren't as important.

 

[RichoLedio]

Those are good points, but it can work either way. Brisbane would look lost without J.Brown up front despite having a good midfield, for exampe. As you said though, it's best to have a mix of both - I just think that elite mids are much easier to draft or recruit than elite forwards, and as such aren't as important.

There's also less positions for key forwards to play than midfielders, thus you don't need to draft as many

 

[BrownPearHookers]

All the years I have watched footy, you can give me Ablett Snr or Carey before any mid to ever play the game.

I love when people bring West coast into Mid vs forward arguements, even though it took 3 elite mids and 1 elite ruck, but it was Hunter whiched saved them.

1 Elite forward >>> 1 Elite Mid.