I just cant see it

[groo]

Greenwood has played about two more games than Cunnington so when was it that people actually stopped worrying about Greenwood's ability to adapt?
p.s I wasn't one of those that questioned Greenwood but I would have been if after close to 30 games he had shown so little.

 

[breeno]

Greenwood has played about two more games than Cunnington so when was it that people actually stopped worrying about Greenwood's ability to adapt?
p.s I wasn't one of those that questioned Greenwood but I would have been if after close to 30 games he had shown so little.

Greenwood also had preseasons and has two years on Cunnington.

FFS, people acting like the guy has shown nothing. He has been quite good in 5 or 6 games this year, average in others and poor in some others, nothing you don't expect from a 19 year old.

 

[groo]

Greenwood also had preseasons and has two years on Cunnington.

FFS, people acting like the guy has shown nothing. He has been quite good in 5 or 6 games this year, average in others and poor in some others, nothing you don't expect from a 19 year old.

Obviously a lot more is expected of Speight.

 

[King Corey]

Mark me down as one of the 'can't see it' brigade too - and the related slander that appears to come with it.

Am trusting the club and others on this occasion can see what I can't. Of course there's been the odd cameo or decent act.

But the inherent class and talent that is usually apparent in top juniors doesn't stand out to me with Ben. He's not a shitbag by any means but at the moment he looks to me as though his best will be Brock McLean level. Not crap but not 'build your club around this player' either.

His continual hesitation to kick, his grubbers, slow reactions at times and (surprisingly) lack of maniacal attack on the ball have done nothing to reveal to me this future diamond that everyone else sees. In fairness his trait of holding onto the ball to release a teammate in space might show a hint of the smarts everyone else is convinced of.

Anyway sometimes life is more interesting when you get taken by surprise. So I'll go with the belief that others see something I'm don't - and this kid will develop into a great player. Because even allowing for lack of fitness and development, I couldn't see it pre-draft and still can't.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I don't know if anyone else watched the NB game which Cunners played earlier in the year that was on ABC. I watched the first half and thought that he really didn't look any better than the non AFL listed blokes for either team. He looked slow, made poor decisions, poor disposal at times and was pretty quiet. Then in the third quarter with the game in the balance he took control of the game and had 15 or so quality touches in the guts. I know it's only VFL level but not too many at that level can do that, let along a relatively unfit 19 year old.

He doesn't appear to have the poise of Bastinac or the clean kicking skills of a Ziebell but I think he will be a very fine player for this club and in very much a different mold than others we already have. He is the type that needs to be fit and strong to play his style, which at the moment he isn't because he is a third year player that hasn't had a preseason yet. I am at least prepared to allow him the opportunity to get AFL fit before making a call on his ability.

 

[Souup]

He lacks intensity. This is something he had bucket loads of in the Under 18's, and he hasn't really taken it into the AFL. When you watch him in our side he seems slow, even weak (pushed around easilly), and lacks intensity. Now, i think this is due to a combination of the following - He's a kid, lacks full pre-season, the bigger bodies in the AFL and how much quicker it is then the Under 18's. He's not the quickest guy going around, but like others have said, he has footy smarts and knows where to run, so he'll be fine.

If you check out some of his Under 18's highlights, the determination to lay a bump/tackle/chase/smother is mental, just wills himself on to do the little things. I think it'll just take time, but he'll get there.

 

[spurs]

Played better than Patch.

Not in the same class as Patch.

 

[Shinbones]

I'm not sure that he will ever be a star but I'm sure he will be a very, very good player. Could be similar to Luke Ball.

I think he should spend some time in the 2's. Unfortunately, at the moment I think we'll be a better team without him in it. No shame in being dropped as a 19 year old. At the moment it seems like he's losing confidence playing AFL footy, not benefitting from experience.

Guys like Speight, Richo and Cruize deserve a second chance.

this is exactly the conversations we were having about JZ . I think scott will stand by cunners as he did with JZ he has remarkable faith I think he sees more in cunners than garlett etc otherwise theyd be in .
Not getting away from cunners form but it's an educatioon running with the best and you have to let them learn against the best . He's definatly got the talent it'll click and he'll be right . I wouldnt drop him this week it's a game he could get some confidence out of .

 

[Teffy]

A lot of people are completely misreading Cunningtons make up as a player in this thread.

You need to draw a form line through players like Jobe Watson and Sam Mitchell to get an insight on Bens development. Players that win the clearance, stand up in a pack, and dish off a handball. Sure, Cunners is getting trapped now, but that won't be the case in 2 years time.

The important thing is that we do not try to modify this aspect out of his game.

Watson didn't arrive until he was 22 and had 4 preseasons under his belt.

Mitchell didn't arrive until he was 22 and had VFL experience and 2 AFL preseasons under his belt.

This is not a random coincidence. Inside players take time.

Comaprisons with Atley and Bastinac are completely absurd.

 

[NiceCunnington]

There are a lot of pretty disappointing posts in this thread, to be honest. I suppose just about every player on our list has copped similar on here when you think about it.

I don't think he even needs excuses - he's just a very young player finding his way - but others have raised good points. This is a guy who came to us injured and has not played any footy at all before Round 1 of the two seasons we've had him. In all seriousness...

To me, he's shown loads of potential. Going back through his games there are plenty of elite qualities for anyone to "see" if they want to. Strong overhead marks (sometimes against much bigger opponents), contested ball winning, quick and powerful hands, goal assists off both feet, creativity and vision working through traffic, courage in spades, versatility to compete anywhere. His desperation to impact the game when we don't have the ball is outstanding, but often overlooked by casual fans like us. IIRC he was #1 or #2 (behind Wellsy) in our midfield for 1 %er's across last season, and this is part of the reason he received B & F votes for most of his games in the 2nd half of the year. Surely we all saw his series of game-winning acts vs Brisbane; I really can't picture many other players taking a game into their own hands in that manner, let alone an 18 yr old. I honestly don't know how anyone could miss this stuff.

You can tell he's going to be a very underrated player on here. From what I've seen, nobody at all even acknowledged the first class defensive jobs he did in the weeks leading up to this game. He misses one spoil on the weekend, now all of a sudden his spoiling technique is 'timid' when the half a dozen he hit perfectly last week are ignored. He is a 'woeful' kick but managed to drill two perfect 40m passes in the rare times he had some space on the weekend. Obviously he has work to do on his fitness, strength, and his awareness at AFL level speed.

As for people questioning the character or work ethic of this teenager (sorry if nobody is actually doing this; parts of the thread seem very vague and "inner scrotum") - I hope you have good evidence because anyone else that has ever known him goes over the top raving about his wonderful attitude. Brad Scott only a few weeks ago stated that he embodies everything this club is all about.

I think that, right now, we have a couple of better options in the reserves (Richo and Cruize - both have also copped it terribly on here), but his work is clearly appreciated by the people that matter, and it won't surprise me at all if he stays in. Anyone who seriously thinks players get games in our side because of their draft pick are living in dream land.

 

[the big lebowski]

Doubt he will be a top 5 player in our side, but more than confident he will be a top 10 player.

I don't think he is that bad a kick at all. Besides one or two bad ones each week his kicking is pretty good. Not as good as his handballing though. His kicking seems to me that he is trying to do too much.

As an off the ehad example of his good kivking think back to round 1 against West Coast, in the third quarter he had two inside 50's that were pin point passes. Against Port Adelaide in thrid qrt he came on as the sub, Wellsy one a free at half forward/wing, hit Cunners just inside 50, cunners instinctively wheeled around and hit Thomas with a beatutiful pass.

Sure he had a poor one on Saturday (on the back of two good ones), but he will be a good solid player for us for a long time. People just need to lower their expecations on him (for the time being at least).

 

[Teffy]

I honestly don't know how anyone could miss this stuff.

Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Many people only take notice of the flashy stuff, and I assume many are just too young to have built up a decent knowledge of player potential and developmental traits.

 

[Teffy]

Doubt he will be a top 5 player in our side, but more than confident he will be a top 10 player.

I don't think he is that bad a kick at all. Besides one or two bad ones each week his kicking is pretty good. Not as good as his handballing though. His kicking seems to me that he is trying to do too much.

As an off the ehad example of his good kivking think back to round 1 against West Coast, in the third quarter he had two inside 50's that were pin point passes. Against Port Adelaide in thrid qrt he came on as the sub, Wellsy one a free at half forward/wing, hit Cunners just inside 50, cunners instinctively wheeled around and hit Thomas with a beatutiful pass.

Sure he had a poor one on Saturday (on the back of two good ones), but he will be a good solid player for us for a long time. People just need to lower their expecations on him (for the time being at least).

Injury aside, he will be an elite AFL clearance player.

Bookmark and revisit this post in 3-4 years time.

 

[breeno]

A lot of people are completely misreading Cunningtons make up as a player in this thread.

You need to draw a form line through players like Jobe Watson and Sam Mitchell to get an insight on Bens development. Players that win the clearance, stand up in a pack, and dish off a handball. Sure, Cunners is getting trapped now, but that won't be the case in 2 years time.

The important thing is that we do not try to modify this aspect out of his game.

Watson didn't arrive until he was 22 and had 4 preseasons under his belt.

Mitchell didn't arrive until he was 22 and had VFL experience and 2 AFL preseasons under his belt.

This is not a random coincidence. Inside players take time.

Comaprisons with Atley and Bastinac are completely absurd.

There are a lot of pretty disappointing posts in this thread, to be honest. I suppose just about every player on our list has copped similar on here when you think about it.

I don't think he even needs excuses - he's just a very young player finding his way - but others have raised good points. This is a guy who came to us injured and has not played any footy at all before Round 1 of the two seasons we've had him. In all seriousness...

To me, he's shown loads of potential. Going back through his games there are plenty of elite qualities for anyone to "see" if they want to. Strong overhead marks (sometimes against much bigger opponents), contested ball winning, quick and powerful hands, goal assists off both feet, creativity and vision working through traffic, courage in spades, versatility to compete anywhere. His desperation to impact the game when we don't have the ball is outstanding, but often overlooked by casual fans like us. IIRC he was #1 or #2 (behind Wellsy) in our midfield for 1 %er's across last season, and this is part of the reason he received B & F votes for most of his games in the 2nd half of the year. Surely we all saw his series of game-winning acts vs Brisbane; I really can't picture many other players taking a game into their own hands in that manner, let alone an 18 yr old. I honestly don't know how anyone could miss this stuff.

You can tell he's going to be a very underrated player on here. From what I've seen, nobody at all even acknowledged the first class defensive jobs he did in the weeks leading up to this game. He misses one spoil on the weekend, now all of a sudden his spoiling technique is 'timid' when the half a dozen he hit perfectly last week are ignored. He is a 'woeful' kick but managed to drill two perfect 40m passes in the rare times he had some space on the weekend. Obviously he has work to do on his fitness, strength, and his awareness at AFL level speed.

As for people questioning the character or work ethic of this teenager (sorry if nobody is actually doing this; parts of the thread seem very vague and "inner scrotum") - I hope you have good evidence because anyone else that has ever known him goes over the top raving about his wonderful attitude. Brad Scott only a few weeks ago stated that he embodies everything this club is all about.

I think that, right now, we have a couple of better options in the reserves (Richo and Cruize - both have also copped it terribly on here), but his work is clearly appreciated by the people that matter, and it won't surprise me at all if he stays in. Anyone who seriously thinks players get games in our side because of their draft pick are living in dream land.

Two of the best posts I've ever seen, let alone in this thread. Good work guys.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Two of the best posts I've ever seen, let alone in this thread. Good work guys.

Yep, there will be some big reality checks in about 2 years on some of the calls made here. Cunners went at 5 in a deep and strong draft for a reason, and those clubs after us on draft day were hoping we would go with Rohan so that they could get Ben.

 

[The Other Dean]

There are a lot of pretty disappointing posts in this thread, to be honest. I suppose just about every player on our list has copped similar on here when you think about it.

I don't think he even needs excuses - he's just a very young player finding his way - but others have raised good points. This is a guy who came to us injured and has not played any footy at all before Round 1 of the two seasons we've had him. In all seriousness...

To me, he's shown loads of potential. Going back through his games there are plenty of elite qualities for anyone to "see" if they want to. Strong overhead marks (sometimes against much bigger opponents), contested ball winning, quick and powerful hands, goal assists off both feet, creativity and vision working through traffic, courage in spades, versatility to compete anywhere. His desperation to impact the game when we don't have the ball is outstanding, but often overlooked by casual fans like us. IIRC he was #1 or #2 (behind Wellsy) in our midfield for 1 %er's across last season, and this is part of the reason he received B & F votes for most of his games in the 2nd half of the year. Surely we all saw his series of game-winning acts vs Brisbane; I really can't picture many other players taking a game into their own hands in that manner, let alone an 18 yr old. I honestly don't know how anyone could miss this stuff.

You can tell he's going to be a very underrated player on here. From what I've seen, nobody at all even acknowledged the first class defensive jobs he did in the weeks leading up to this game. He misses one spoil on the weekend, now all of a sudden his spoiling technique is 'timid' when the half a dozen he hit perfectly last week are ignored. He is a 'woeful' kick but managed to drill two perfect 40m passes in the rare times he had some space on the weekend. Obviously he has work to do on his fitness, strength, and his awareness at AFL level speed.

As for people questioning the character or work ethic of this teenager (sorry if nobody is actually doing this; parts of the thread seem very vague and "inner scrotum") - I hope you have good evidence because anyone else that has ever known him goes over the top raving about his wonderful attitude. Brad Scott only a few weeks ago stated that he embodies everything this club is all about.

I think that, right now, we have a couple of better options in the reserves (Richo and Cruize - both have also copped it terribly on here), but his work is clearly appreciated by the people that matter, and it won't surprise me at all if he stays in. Anyone who seriously thinks players get games in our side because of their draft pick are living in dream land.

Busey rates this post.

And so do I.

 

[telemark]

Quality defence of Ben10 going on this this thread & I love it.

Don't have much more to add to my earlier post except that I think that haters would have got stuck into Spitta earlier if not for his game-winning goal against Melbourne in 07. It was one of those (media cliche) "break-out" moments that excite everyone. Cunnington hasn't yet had one of those moments, but has done countless crucial work in packs (including some lovely deft & crafty ball movement).

I'm not adverse to the Bard playing him in VFL right now for specific developmental reasons, or for confidence. He will be back, and will be as good or better than Swallow in congested work (i.e. in the AFL's top few players). When we field those two together, what the **** are other teams going to do to win the ball against us?

 

[ReturnOfTheKing]

Watched him closely on the weekend. He is a fair way off the pace, especially down back. For mine he should be playing midfield in the VFL for an extended run. No need to panic though!

 

[CBSlogger]

A lot of people are completely misreading Cunningtons make up as a player in this thread.

You need to draw a form line through players like Jobe Watson and Sam Mitchell to get an insight on Bens development. Players that win the clearance, stand up in a pack, and dish off a handball. Sure, Cunners is getting trapped now, but that won't be the case in 2 years time.

The important thing is that we do not try to modify this aspect out of his game.

Watson didn't arrive until he was 22 and had 4 preseasons under his belt.

Mitchell didn't arrive until he was 22 and had VFL experience and 2 AFL preseasons under his belt.

This is not a random coincidence. Inside players take time.

Comaprisons with Atley and Bastinac are completely absurd.

Very well said. Jobe & Sam's footy smarts & instincts in heavy traffic are what i do see in Ben, but it's clear to me that he's playing U18 footy at AFL level.

The optimist in me says Ben does possess the elite in-traffic instincts to take the game on like he does, it's just that he's trying to do it as if he's still in juniors. I really don't see the deer in the headlights issue which was mentioned with players like Levi early on. I see some players looking a little stunned early days who have to learn that they can do certain things & not to panic, but with Ben i reckon it's the complete opposite - he has to learn that he can't do certain things... yet. At least not until he's bigger, stronger, fitter & faster by comparison to the opposition, like he was in U18's.

The pessimist in me says that there's a possibility that the potential peak our recruiters saw in Ben was inflated, because he was so bloody professional. Is there a chance that Ben's maxed out more than others have because they are yet to take footy as seriously as him? We all know of players who improved out of sight once they extracted the digit & applied themselves, however i'm not sure that's an option with Ben - he's had the digit extracted since he began walking at 3 months old, getting himself out of kiddy ice baths after a heavy day at creche.

I just hope Ben's top-5 selection doesn't become a Richard Tambling style burden on him if he's still finding his feet in 12-18 months time.

Anyway i'm in the optimism corner with Ben but having said that, i strongly believe he should be in the 2's atm. On recent form Richo, Speight & Garlett all deserve a spot in the senoirs ahead of him. It didn't do Mitchell, Watson or Spitta any harm.

 

[Tas]

Greenwood has played about two more games than Cunnington so when was it that people actually stopped worrying about Greenwood's ability to adapt?
p.s I wasn't one of those that questioned Greenwood but I would have been if after close to 30 games he had shown so little.

After about 2 games when he went from a half back to the middle of the ground.

 

[Tas]

After watching a few games again over the weekend, I think he is trying too hard to make things happen rather than just go with the flow.

If you can pin him for any fault, he at times does not go with the first option and sells himself into trouble. As others have said when he builds up his fitness and gets more experience and adjusts to the pace of the game more then he is going to learn a lot of all the mistakes he is making at present.

I feel for him because he has had interruptions and he has seen a guy like Busta and Atley take like a fish to water and he is probably putting a lot more pressure on himself to set a high standard than anyone at the club is.

I think he will be a gem of a player, but he has to be patient, trust in the club.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Maybe it's time for us to bring in Ross. I have been saying this guy is the next Aker and by going what i have said about Delaney, Greenwood and LB, he will be good.

Woof.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Injury aside, he will be an elite AFL clearance player.

Bookmark and revisit this post in 3-4 years time.

*cough, cough*

 

[Artaxx]

any similar threads about Blacky to bump Snake?

 

[Daz]

My god, the word 'Cunnington' wasn't even in the title. This would've taken ages to find.

Just a shame we don't have Thomas and Black in the backline.