Play Nice Indigenous AFL players call out Adam Goodes's treatment ahead of The Final Quarter documentary release pt 2

[Hawk_francais]

I already addressed that post. I was wrong to express my point in that way, but the point is very much valid. As were all the others you overlooked from my post.

In what way is your point valid?

 

[CatFan79]

That's an existential comfort most of our indigenous sisters and brothers don't get by the way.

What do you mean? What comfort don't they get?

 

[Bollox]

Armchair fascist.

"Change diet". Why don't you tell that to the next indigenous person you meet.

Any doctor will advise that to anyone wanting to live longer.
Are u implying that we need to treat an indigenous person somehow differently to others ?

You sound like an armchair racist.

 

[SherbertLemon]

Armchair fascist.

"Change diet". Why don't you tell that to the next indigenous person you meet.

Fascist? LOL
Do you even know what that means.
It’s such a hilarious thing to call someone

 

[SherbertLemon]

Any doctor will advise that to anyone wanting to live longer.
Are u implying that we need to treat an indigenous person somehow differently to others ?

You sound like an armchair racist.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

We live in a liberal democracy which provides free healthcare and education.

We live in a society that is so bent up on equality that we came up with the concept of micro aggression.

If you’re failing today and blaming it on race then you’re just a bloody victim bludger who refuses to take control of your life.

I have sacrificed, I have gone without, not once did I blame the race of the person next to me.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Any doctor will advise that to anyone wanting to live longer.
Are u implying that we need to treat an indigenous person somehow differently to others ?

You sound like an armchair racist.

You recommend dietary changes and 'get busy living' as practical steps for people who are still having their land taken away, whose brothers and sisters are living in 3rd world conditions, being locked up and killed in police custody.

All you can offer is "Stop complaining".

We live in a liberal democracy which provides free healthcare and education

If you’re failing today and blaming it on race then you’re just a bloody victim bludger who refuses to take control of your life.

I have sacrificed, I have gone without, not once did I blame the race of the person next to me.

When I say fascist this is what I'm talking about. The iron-clad belief that what is fair for one (you) is fair for everyone.

You think education and healthcare are provided equally in every place in Australia. That's delusional.

You're right that our society is obsessed with equality, it's spoken about endlessly and very little/no action is taken. Like right now.

 

[CatFan79]

whose brothers and sisters are living in 3rd world conditions

I agree but you won't help them by focusing on irrelevant factors like race or events occurring generations ago.

These are cultural and social issues..

 

[Bollox]

You recommend dietary changes and 'get busy living' as practical steps for people who are still having their land taken away, whose brothers and sisters are living in 3rd world conditions, being locked up and killed in police custody.

All you can offer is "Stop complaining".

You ARE a racist arnt you.

Here you are trying to tell others the average indigenous person is living in 3rd world conditions and is in and out of prison with no capacity to look after themselves. Some sort of leftover being with no intelligence to decide their own fate.
They make their own choices in life, and contrary to what you might think most, like the rest of us, live a life they are happy with. The reason is we all have choices these days. This great country provides that.

They are ordinary Australians. If you wish to stereotype and group anyone of indigenous heritage as some sort of third world people amongst the rest of us, then you are a racist. You want to single out a particular heritage and s**t on them.
We are all simply Aussies, so take your misplaced patronising racist bullshit elsewhere.

 

[ferball]

What do you mean? What comfort don't they get?

Do you what its like to not live in safety?

 

[CatFan79]

Do you what its like to not live in safety?

What's the threat to their safety?

 

[SherbertLemon]

When I say fascist this is what I'm talking about. The iron-clad belief that what is fair for one (you) is fair for everyone.

You think education and healthcare are provided equally in every place in Australia. That's delusional.

You're right that our society is obsessed with equality, it's spoken about endlessly and very little/no action is taken. Like right now.

That isn’t fascism LOL.

Mate, if you’re going to throw out labels at least understand what they mean.

I would agree that providing healthcare and education to regional/remote areas is a problem, but that’s simply a product of supply and demand.

Educated people don’t want to go out there. Even when the government offers them a ton of money.

Plus those remote areas don’t pay a lot in taxes.

Plus those remote areas are really hard to get people to actually go to school.

It’s so damn nuanced. It’s not as simple as saying ‘just go to school’, but it’s also not as simple as saying ‘nobody cares about the children to educate them’

 

[mike123]

If you’re failing today and blaming it on race then you’re just a bloody victim bludger who refuses to take control of your life.

Or maybe there are numerous factors at play that have happened to have most prominently disadvantaged a people of a certain race. It’s quite nuanced.

 

[SherbertLemon]

Or maybe there are numerous factors at play that have happened to have most prominently disadvantaged a people of a certain race. It’s quite nuanced.

In the past? Undoubtedly.
But now?
No. People have autonomy and self determination.
If you keep using this excuse you neuter yourself and your future generations.

People think they’re helping by perpetuating the narrative that they are disadvantaged and unable to succeed because they’re of a certain race but that’s patently untrue.

In this society, ALL can succeed IRRESPECTIVE of race.

I don’t expect that someone is less or more capable because of race.

In the same way as I don’t think a superstar of our game being bood is racial, because he’s capable of being hated on his footy merits just as much as Garry Ablett or Sam Mitchell

 

[skilts]

We are all simply Aussies, so take your misplaced patronising racist bulls**t elsewhere.

Quite so. Though you seem to have neglected any element of being a human being. Aren't you one of those first and foremost, or not at all?

'Simple' would have been a more accurate adjective. How peculiar to identify that the sole characteristic of any note about oneself is the landmass upon which one was, by complete accident. (presumably) born.

Your characteristic of having no empathy or sympathy towards other humans borders on sociopathic. Your ill-considered thought displays a depth comparable to that of a kids' wading pool.

Your retort, of course, will be that, as an Australian, you are under no obligation to think at all.

 

[ferball]

Allen Christensen says hi.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-28/i-know-why-ill-get-booed

Andrew Krakouer seems a bit more ambiguous on it too.

Andrew Krakouer might be trying to subtly suggest people who think they aren't racist should examine their motives more carefully.

Or not. I dunno.

 

[ferball]

Then don’t. I assume you were born in Australia and never met any of those relatives. Not at all the scenario I was asking you to imagine. But thanks for sharing. It’s genuinely a fascinating family history.

Yeah I have met them. Well some. My father was one of them. I don't think you "cultural sensitivity training" would fit the situation.

And I don't deny that we're all not far removed from atrocity either.

We're not seperated from what i'm talking about tho.

If you limit your perspective, you only end up with a limited perspective. I won’t do that intentionally, sorry.

That's faux-pithy rubbish. Every perspective is limited. By definition.

Yours obviously is when it comes to this.

The benefits I get as a modern human comes off the back of millions of people’s suffering throughout history. That’s just the sad reality I was born into. If I am to consider those alive today, from whose suffering Australians derive the most direct benefit, people in foreign countries would be highest on my list. And I think most Westerners are apathetic to that suffering so long as it’s kept out of sight for the most part and still meets a necessity.

Those benefits come from a variety of different things actually. Not just suffering. I agree with the rest of that tho. For example we benefit from the famine in Yemen at the moment. Well some of us.

So while I offer nothing but support for indigenous Australians finding their equal place in modern Australia, where they can live free from institutional and social disadvantage and discrimination in a way of their own choosing, I find the righteous posturing in the face of history rather vacuous in the grand scheme of things. I support this ideal because I think it will make a better present, not for some Bushido notion of generational responsibility.

This is a democracy.

Those things are done in our name.

We're adults.

Therefore its a very specific responsibility. In case you didn't know these things still happen. Nothing has changed. Its the present not the past. There was no break in continuity to give the opportunity to move these things into the past.

 

[Crankitup]

Andrew Krakouer might be trying to subtly suggest people who think they aren't racist should examine their motives more carefully.

Or not. I dunno.

So your response to my post is to ignore the comments from Allen Christensen entirely and try and twist Andrew Krakouer's words into something he did not say. Great stuff.

 

[JackOutback]

Okay. My bad. That was a terrible way of putting it. I retract that unreservedly.

I was trying to say the misguided segregation strategy wasn’t actively trying to wipe out a race of people, compared to earlier instances in Australian history where settlers did indeed actively try to eradicate indigenous populations from their territory. I do acknowledge it was thought that if left to themselves, this would be the natural course for the Aboriginal race. I regret the way I expressed that.

Cheers for the considered response.

Like the other poster, I do think you’re giving them a pretty generous benefit of the doubt. At worst, there is evidence the policy was designed to breed out Aboriginality. That doesn’t mean there weren’t people with good intentions, trying to help young Aboriginal children, albeit ignorant of the context as to why they were in the position they were in or the consequences of their actions. I don’t think it was ever designed with the interests of the greater Aboriginal population in mind.

 

[ferball]

So your response to my post is to ignore the comments from Allen Christensen entirely and try and twist Andrew Krakouer's words into something he did not say. Great stuff.

Yes. Well done on noticing the obvious.

Its pretty clear what Christensen said if you read the article.

AS for Krakouer - why does what I typed contradict what you posted?

It's ambiguous as you say.

He might just be challenging people to examine their own behaviour more closely.

Neither of them are saying racism isn't a factor in some of the booing of Goodes.

So what's your point?

 

[Crankitup]

So what's your point?

I was responding to someone who had posted the following.

Indigenous footballers playing in the AFL, have stated their view. Unanimously. ALL Indigenous players in the AFL have called this action racist.

The two indigenous players who I quoted have said something quite different to "the booing was racist"'. There's plenty of other examples if you want more.

Its pretty clear what Christensen said if you read the article.

Yes, he said he didn't know why people were booing and then said the following.

"I don't really like it, but they (fans) pay their money and they do what they want to do.
"I don't think it's sinister. It's a bit like following the crowd, because everyone else is doing it, we'll do it. It's a bit strange."

Clearly he HAS NOT said the crowd was booing because they were racists FFS.

 

[Monkey King]

And I don't deny that we're all not far removed from atrocity either ... We're not seperated from what i'm talking about tho.

That's faux-pithy rubbish. Every perspective is limited. By definition ... Yours obviously is when it comes to this.

You’ve got a helluva welcome to message to new immigrants, that their new homeland will never be equally theirs and that they’re now responsible for the acts of some dead white people, a race who probably had a hand at some point in their need to emigrate. It’s totally unnecessary and insensitive to foist your guilt upon a person in that situation.

Yeah sure, everyone’s perception is intrinsically limited by physics and biology. What you’re suggesting is that I limit my perspective by conscious intent; to ignore knowledge and experience, to abandon critical thinking.

Humanity’s story is a global one and by our hands, many lives around the world are impacted today. We make sense of the world by comparison and contrast, so when I try to objectively consider who’s suffering I’m actually contributing to and benefiting from by my action, it is simply impossible for me not to consider the lives of those who assembled the device I’m typing on, or the shoes I’m wearing. If I’m considering Australian history, I will contrast it against what I know from that time period and earlier ones. If the only lens I have to view these events through is modern day Australia, I’m not going to see very much.

 

[Monkey King]

Cheers for the considered response.

Like the other poster, I do think you’re giving them a pretty generous benefit of the doubt. At worst, there is evidence the policy was designed to breed out Aboriginality. That doesn’t mean there weren’t people with good intentions, trying to help young Aboriginal children, albeit ignorant of the context as to why they were in the position they were in or the consequences of their actions. I don’t think it was ever designed with the interests of the greater Aboriginal population in mind.

If the intention was to actively wipe anyone out, it would have been more involved than just removing an estimated 10% of children deemed to be of “mixed” race. We’ve seen in other parts of Australia how viciously this intent played out. That’s not to suggest there were good intentions for indigenous Australians here, the word “preserve” was wrong to use and gave that impression. I should have stuck with segregate.

Anyway, I think we all agree it was a detestable act on a long list detestable acts.

 

[Monkey King]

In what way is your point valid

The idea that “we” (every Australian alive today) tried to wipe out the Aboriginal race is utter bollocks.

That government social programs for single mothers and indigenous Australians does not equate to tax payers being responsible for the events leading to their predicament.

That I’ve indeed been speaking of equal rights.

 

[mike123]

In the past? Undoubtedly.
But now?
No. People have autonomy and self determination.
If you keep using this excuse you neuter yourself and your future generations.

People think they’re helping by perpetuating the narrative that they are disadvantaged and unable to succeed because they’re of a certain race but that’s patently untrue.

In this society, ALL can succeed IRRESPECTIVE of race.

I don’t expect that someone is less or more capable because of race.

In the same way as I don’t think a superstar of our game being bood is racial, because he’s capable of being hated on his footy merits just as much as Garry Ablett or Sam Mitchell

What you fail to understand is no one is suggesting race itself is holding people back. It’s the situation people of those race are in that hold them back and the past has very much contributed to the current situation whether or not you want to believe that.

Self determination and autonomy can only get you so far. If you or your parents are too poor to afford a healthy diet you don’t really have the choice to change your diet. No amount of self determination and autonomy will change that.

 

[ferball]

I was responding to someone who had posted the following.




The two indigenous players who I quoted have said something quite different to "the booing was racist"'. There's plenty of other examples if you want more.



Yes, he said he didn't know why people were booing and then said the following.

"I don't really like it, but they (fans) pay their money and they do what they want to do.
"I don't think it's sinister. It's a bit like following the crowd, because everyone else is doing it, we'll do it. It's a bit strange."

Clearly he HAS NOT said the crowd was booing because they were racists FFS.

Okay. Well done.