Opinion Insults / Modding / Free speech / etc / etc

[Vicky Park]

I’d describe it more as needing to understand something so it can be learned from, and to hold to account whether it is justifiably deserving of the outrage it’s getting (is it genuinely deserving of outrage? Or is it just political correctness?)



For interest I’ve asked the Internet and seen a lot of “this is wrong on so many levels” (without any explanation of what any of those levels are) and lots of “... Racist! ...” - a word that should not be tossed around without being able to justify its use - but very very little justification.

One justification is a reference to a racist 1800’s American cartoon called “Sambo”. To be fair, it doesn’t seem valid nor reasonable to criticise an Australian cartoon that is intended for an Australian audience for infracting upon an antique American pop cultural reference. Having quickly googled “Sambo” I can now understand how the reference would offend ... but if countries are going to apply their own antique pop cultural references and outrage to media created in and for other markets then the world is in a bit of trouble.

Another justification given are references to the American Civil rights movement. I don’t see the connection between 1960’s African Americans fighting for equal civil rights in their own country, and 2018 a multi-millionaire African American tennis player being called out for poor behaviour on the tennis court - can’t find any explanation on the Internet for that one.

Another justification is the depiction of Osaka, and that one I can understand. As I’ve already mentioned, depicting Osaka erroneously as a blonde Caucasian, referencing black v white: bad v good does draw on racist stereotypes. On that basis Knight is due criticism.

Apart from those examples, there is a lot of media outrage without any accompanying justification.

FWIW I came across another cartoon (India) on the same topic that is also copping heavy criticism. This one has got me totally flummoxed ...

Fair enough.



Totally cool.

Thanks for the Python reference 76.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Whilst, I've written and believe strongly that Ramos has been hung drawn and quartered by many without justifiable cause, I don't think anyone (I hope no-one) is suggesting that Ramos was consciously and intentionally attacking Williams for her gender. I think, or at least hope, they are suggesting that his reaction was subconsciously sexist.

I think it's evident that some are, particularly in mainstream media.

 

[deltablues]

Well said!!!!

I speak from experience and it's funny because when I pull someone up in conversation, they respond, 'don't mean you of course'. Makes me so mad!

Knight exaggerated Serena's physical features to the point if you didn't know her or the incident, is unrecognisable. Further, as 76 mentioned he drew Osaka with breasts. Also she is not a blonde. Just click bait for HS and Knight has history of this.

She was blonde when she played that game, so maybe stop being mischievously disingenuous.

A caricature exaggerates physical features, irrespective of race - although some may argue that in this instance it was not a caricature but an exact depiction.

 

[deltablues]

76, I don’t want to enter into a long debate about this. I appreciate different views.

But it always strikes me that when it’s white, Anglo, middle class Australians debating the presence of racism, it’s coming from a base of never having experienced it.

I count myself in this group.

As for the caricature, I’m hearing spokespersons in the US, the daughter of Martin Luther King no less, stating that it is racist and offends them.

I credit that view ahead of most others.

And I agree with BJ above. Most Australians don’t see themselves as racist. But when I hear it in conversation it’s casual, lazy and unthinking. But it’s still there. We remain an immature nation.

I'm white, middle class, Anglo [OK, actually German heritage, not Anglo] and I have definitely experienced what snowflakes might characterize as racism - in Japan [I speak Japanese] and Korea, and the Middle East [just after 9/11 a little Kuwaiti boy in my local supermarket, emboldened by recent events, called me an Amriki ibn al kalb [American son of a dog].

Plus I have been shot at - although to be charitable the racist, no, wait, perps might have somehow become aware I was 'Pies fan - and North Africa (Maghreb).

Hey, I got over it. I wouldn't call it being immature. I would call it human nature. Maybe not being shot at. But vibrant cultures being vibrant, right?

Racism is part of the current cultural wars meme where the Left are always in search of a victim or cause. If you go looking for "racism" as it is currently widely defined then you will find it everywhere. And it suits the agenda of the Left to find "racism" everywhere. Identity poltics right out of the cultural Marxist playbook.

 

[Black_White]

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/caricature
A little bit of perspective.

 

[Vicky Park]

I'm white, middle class, Anglo [OK, actually German heritage, not Anglo] and I have definitely experienced what snowflakes might characterize as racism - in Japan [I speak Japanese] and Korea, and the Middle East [just after 9/11 a little Kuwaiti boy in my local supermarket, emboldened by recent events, called me an Amriki ibn al kalb [American son of a dog].

Plus I have been shot at - although to be charitable the racist, no, wait, perps might have somehow become aware I was 'Pies fan - and North Africa (Maghreb).

Hey, I got over it. I wouldn't call it being immature. I would call it human nature. Maybe not being shot at. But vibrant cultures being vibrant, right?

Racism is part of the current cultural wars meme where the Left are always in search of a victim or cause. If you go looking for "racism" as it is currently widely defined then you will find it everywhere. And it suits the agenda of the Left to find "racism" everywhere. Identity poltics right out of the cultural Marxist playbook.

I’m not looking for a victim or a cause. Just expressing my view on this.

I don’t agree with all left politics; I’m currently opposed to my left leaning local Council.

I get over things too. Received a far amount of abuse when modding on here. And at local community meetings where I present on local matters and stand against the mainstream view. There’s currently a community Facebook page out there dedicated to attacking me in my professional capacity. Not much fun!

I’m aware of your views on some issues; I’ve read them on here before. I respect them too.

But I’m not resiling from this, and my view on this country being immature remains.

 

[sr36]

I’d describe it more as needing to understand something so it can be learned from, and to hold to account whether it is justifiably deserving of the outrage it’s getting (is it genuinely deserving of outrage? Or is it just political correctness?)

.

My take is it's a Molotov cocktail brewed from :
1 part implicit racism in the cartoon (whilst you can understand many Australians not seeing the references, I'm not sure you can understand an extremely experienced visual satirist and his editors not seeing it)
1 part peoples desire to vent and rant and seeking things to vent and rant about(aka the pc argument)
1 part fans of Williams having her on a pedestal and being unable to be critical of her behaviour and thus seeking to divert when she is criticised.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

I'm white, middle class, Anglo [OK, actually German heritage, not Anglo] and I have definitely experienced what snowflakes might characterize as racism - in Japan [I speak Japanese] and Korea, and the Middle East [just after 9/11 a little Kuwaiti boy in my local supermarket, emboldened by recent events, called me an Amriki ibn al kalb [American son of a dog].

Plus I have been shot at - although to be charitable the racist, no, wait, perps might have somehow become aware I was 'Pies fan - and North Africa (Maghreb).

Hey, I got over it. I wouldn't call it being immature. I would call it human nature. Maybe not being shot at. But vibrant cultures being vibrant, right?

Racism is part of the current cultural wars meme where the Left are always in search of a victim or cause. If you go looking for "racism" as it is currently widely defined then you will find it everywhere. And it suits the agenda of the Left to find "racism" everywhere. Identity poltics right out of the cultural Marxist playbook.

Marxism wasn't ever about cultural or ethnic victimization. It was about class and economic victimization and the indisputable fact that 1% of people owning over 80% of the worlds wealth is putrid. Don't confuse genuine Marxism with corrupted modern leftist politics which is just the left arm of the same corporate oligarchic organism. Mainstream politics in countries such as ours are simply a carefully constructed dummy "choice" to keep you occupied, divided and debating irrelevant social minutiae so you won't go back to seeing the big picture.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

I don't care much for politics..

So I voted for the Car Park Meter party.. I remember the old parking metres.. saved myself a s**t load back in the day.. use that lil louvre s**t at the top of the can.. shove it in the parking meter.. and zzoooommmmmtssssssss it would wind all the way back.. free parking re.

It was f great re.

Talk about recycling re. F great re

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Marxism wasn't ever about cultural or ethnic victimization. It was about class and economic victimization and the indisputable fact that 1% of people owning over 80% of the worlds wealth is putrid. Don't confuse genuine Marxism with corrupted modern leftist politics which is just the left arm of the same corporate oligarchic organism. Mainstream politics in countries such as ours are simply a carefully constructed dummy "choice" to keep you occupied, divided and debating irrelevant social minutiae so you won't go back to seeing the big picture.

Which site did you plagiarize that s**t from re.. no wonder I spent good quality time playing manila in the caf at uni re..

 

[dansa]

Caricature's in newspapers are in general meant to be unflattering.

Accentuating the size of someones nose, their weight, their eyebrows, whatever.

I don't think it unreasonable to accentuate Serina Williams's large body shape, thick lips and mass of hair. It is a fair representation of her in the lampooning caricature form. These are the features that most stand out about her. In the same way John Howard would be often drawn short, big lipped and exaggerated eyebrows.

But due to the fact that African Americans were lampooned for years using caricature cartoons, I can see why they might take it in a way it was not necessarily meant, and why some people believe it is off limits.

If a tennis player with a large nose was caricatured with an exaggerated nose length it would be considered humorous. But if the tennis player was found to have Jewish cultural background some people would see it as racist.

Must a cartoonist self censor the most obvious feature to lampoon if it happens to also fit with a historical stereotype? I'd say No.

But it is all in the perception.

 

[deltablues]

I’m not looking for a victim or a cause. Just expressing my view on this.

I don’t agree with all left politics; I’m currently opposed to my left leaning local Council.

I get over things too. Received a far amount of abuse when modding on here. And at local community meetings where I present on local matters and stand against the mainstream view. There’s currently a community Facebook page out there dedicated to attacking me in my professional capacity. Not much fun!

I’m aware of your views on some issues; I’ve read them on here before. I respect them too.

But I’m not resiling from this, and my view on this country being immature remains.

My comments to you are about the issues - not personal. By all means disagree.

Owning your own country - a common culture and weltanschauung [like Japan, for example, where I spent 6 pleasant years away from PC BS] - means not having to explain things to those from different cultures and being free to comment without the fear of being labelled racist. By way of contrast to Japan, Australia, over the past 2+ generations, has absorbed ~30% new immigrants in a relatively seamless manner, which I believe illustrates a high degree of tolerance and maturity - not immaturity - by the native inhabitants, who nevertheless resent having their views and speech characterized as racist by nouveaux arrivistes.

 

[deltablues]

Marxism wasn't ever about cultural or ethnic victimization. It was about class and economic victimization and the indisputable fact that 1% of people owning over 80% of the worlds wealth is putrid. Don't confuse genuine Marxism with corrupted modern leftist politics which is just the left arm of the same corporate oligarchic organism. Mainstream politics in countries such as ours are simply a carefully constructed dummy "choice" to keep you occupied, divided and debating irrelevant social minutiae so you won't go back to seeing the big picture.

I'm talking cultural Marxism of the Frankfurt School, and also the French Communist philosophers Jacques Derrida, Michel Foucault theories of Deconstruction, post-Modernism, New Historicism etc.

But for the SRP forum.

 

[jmac70]

I'm talking cultural Marxism of the Frankfurt School, and also the French Communist philosophers Jacques Derrida, Michel Foucault theories of Deconstruction, post-Modernism, New Historicism etc.

But for the SRP forum.

I went to school in Frankfurt, it was rubbish.

 

[deltablues]

I went to school in Frankfurt, it was rubbish.

Du bist sehr drollig, jmac.

 

[jmac70]

Du bist sehr drollig, jmac.

Danke

 

[Maggie5]

She was blonde when she played that game, so maybe stop being mischievously disingenuous.

Get your eyes checked. I have had both of mine done recently, work well.

Blonde tips are blond tips and do not signify blonde hair, you should try it might suit you.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Which site did you plagiarize that s**t from re.. no wonder I spent good quality time playing manila in the caf at uni re..

You know me too well Gimposs. I actually got it from my daughters politics school essay.

Last election I voted for "Big Mick Kosenko" who is the president of the Rebels outlaw mc who ran in my electorate. I didn't realize he was a bikie boss at the time till my neighbour told me. I just voted for him cos he had an awesome walrus tache that I wanted to see in parliament. I felt bad about voting for an organized crime figure but then I thought about it some more and I realized I'd probably voted for the only candidate who was open and honest about what they stood for.

 

[Hyakutake]

You know me too well Gimposs. I actually got it from my daughters politics school essay.

Last election I voted for "Big Mick Kosenko" who is the president of the Rebels outlaw mc who ran in my electorate. I didn't realize he was a bikie boss at the time till my neighbour told me. I just voted for him cos he had an awesome walrus tache that I wanted to see in parliament. I felt bad about voting for an organized crime figure but then I thought about it some more and I realized I'd probably voted for the only candidate who was open and honest about what they stood for.

Probably better than voting for a disorganised crime organisation like the Liberal party.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

You know me too well Gimposs. I actually got it from my daughters politics school essay.

Last election I voted for "Big Mick Kosenko" who is the president of the Rebels outlaw mc who ran in my electorate. I didn't realize he was a bikie boss at the time till my neighbour told me. I just voted for him cos he had an awesome walrus tache that I wanted to see in parliament. I felt bad about voting for an organized crime figure but then I thought about it some more and I realized I'd probably voted for the only candidate who was open and honest about what they stood for.

I perfected the art of plagiarism at uni cause it freed up time for socialising.. playing Manila and DJing. With djing the key is being able to read the crowd.. was really good at it re.. you can actually see how these skills transfer over to our game day thread re.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I reported to the Collingwood mods but nothing happened. I then sent it directly to Chief.

Nothing happened.

Would you like my to copy and paste the PM into this thread? Perhaps I’m being over sensitive.

Yes please!

 

[Scritchyscroony]

I perfected the art of plagiarism at uni cause it freed up time for socialising.. playing Manila and DJing. With djing the key is being able to read the crowd.. was really good at it re.. you can actually see how these skills transfer over to our game day thread re.

Whats Manila and djing?
or do you mean DJ'ing as in Carl Cox?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

To suggest Mark Knight deliberately went the racist road “because of his very long history” is a vile slur.

Your “hatred” of the herald sun might be clouding your judgment here.
Knight is brilliant and never ever goes the racist cheap slur unlike Leunig (who I bet you love).

The herald sun like the age deserves a lot of brick bats.

I like Leunig. Can you provide an example where he has gone the racist slur? I guess I also much prefer The Age to the Herald Sun, but I don't personally object to the Serena depiction, even though I do think it resembles stereotype depictions of Afro Americans. I think people have become over sensitive to political correctness.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I like Leunig. Can you provide an example where he has gone the racist slur? I guess I also much prefer The Age to the Herald Sun, but I don't personally object to the Serena depiction, even though I do think it resembles stereotype depictions of Afro Americans. I think people have become over sensitive to political correctness.

I won’t dirty myself by placing his vile rubbish anywhere.

As a rule type his name and say Auchwitz and it will pop up;
His other stuff that’s political etc etc etc


Some are good when he’s not so obviously anti people he doesn’t like; but he strays to bile aisle too often for me.

That’s the best I can do for you.

But we can’t like everyone all the time.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

She’s been made to look like an ape. It’s racist.

Maybe that is what you would like to think, but I don't see the caricature as ape-like but rather an exaggeration of her natural features, particularly when she totally loses her cool as she did on this occasion.