Roast Irritating things.

[Maroo]

Tell you what dude...if we were to make it and the Swans in Sydney was who we ended up having to front up against. The brains trust would be high fiving at the chance to right the ledger of 2 weeks ago up there.

Finals footy is completely different to round 12 footy. It would take an incredible performance for our young side to roll the Swans in a final.

 

[amba vaghdeva]

Just to complicate things....

I dont think the pro-development and pro-finals camps are necessarily diametrically opposed. I am all for development of the list and making the finals....

In fact, making the finals is the ultimate "development" experience for our young team!

 

[rfctigerarmy]

How can the OP get away with trolling saying things like "Griggs isn't a ruckman."

Permban.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Finals footy is completely different to round 12 footy. It would take an incredible performance for our young side to roll the Swans in a final.

But it would hardly be a mentally scarring experience, which is the argument here.

 

[The Goon]

Certainly seems that way and wouldn't be the first time. What I was trying to get at was getting blown away early, which has happened nearly every week, would ruin the chance for our guys to play a real final where the pressure was on for the whole game and we'd be fighting until the end. At the same time I can see how getting to experience the build up, atmosphere and excitement would be a great learning experience, however I don't feel it would be as great without being competitive.

Funny enough when we were down in the first quarter against the Lions the wife and I looked at each other and agreed that seeing as we lost the only game we led at quarter time this year we weren't concerned.

We definitely need to improve those first quarters, but to my mind this needs to be addressed throughout the season. If it happens in a final or not I can't see it somehow playing on the players minds more or less than the existing problem (I'm talking about future years here - not necessarily the outcome of a particular final). One thing the boys HAVE done this year is not give up when we've been on the end of a first quarter hiding. Personally I just cant see the downside of playing in a final. Even if we did get thumped I can see benefits in experience, memberships, development, merchandise sales etc etc etc.

 

[The Goon]

Yeah, not saying we'd win, but I don't think playing Sydney in Sydney would hold too many fears for us. Would be great experience for our guys.

Also be playing them at Homebush which would be a big plus for us. Ground is much closer to the MCG than the SCG.

 

[tunksy]

Things that irratate me: Madtiger talking up Post/Griffiths in every thread.

As far as I'm concerned Post or Griffiths would do a better job as 3rd tall than Miller. With a midfield like ours delivering the ball forward whoever plays 3rd tall is bound to get a dozen possessions and be involved in about 3 goals per game. Post and Griffiths don't only have alot more athletism and skill but they need these games under their belt for the future. I'm all for Miller at Coburg. He should be in the team only if Post and Griffiths are injured

hell to the yea. MT stop bleating about Post. it's hardly been his year and stop making every thread a 'Post is so good thread'!

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Also be playing them at Homebush which would be a big plus for us. Ground is much closer to the MCG than the SCG.

Only by a few km

 

[Maroo]

But it would hardly be a mentally scarring experience, which is the argument here.

Oh, I don't subscribe to that theory either. I'd be stoked if we made it.

Funny enough when we were down in the first quarter against the Lions the wife and I looked at each other and agreed that seeing as we lost the only game we led at quarter time this year we weren't concerned.

I could have sworn that we beat Essendon.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Oh, I don't subscribe to that theory either. I'd be stoked if we made it.


I could have sworn that we beat Essendon.

Yeah we were up 2.3 to 2.2 at qtr time vs Essendon.

We were down 1.2 to 1.4 at qtr time vs Port.


I wasn't one bit worried being four goals down against the Lions.

 

[The Goon]

Oh, I don't subscribe to that theory either. I'd be stoked if we made it.


I could have sworn that we beat Essendon.

Yeah we were up 2.3 to 2.2 at qtr time vs Essendon.

We were down 1.2 to 1.4 at qtr time vs Port.


I wasn't one bit worried being four goals down against the Lions.

Whoops ... my bad.

 

[nut]

What selections are you talking about

Did you read my post????

 

[Bazzar]

Did you read my post????

Yes, and their was only one rant about Tuck, who (barring injury or suspensions) will not play another game for Richmond. He is clearly not part of Hardwicks future plans.

you said

No it's clear with the selections we have made....

Selections, plural, so who are the other selections that show we have no intent on making the finals.

 

[nut]

Yes, and their was only one rant about Tuck, who (barring injury or suspensions) will not play another game for Richmond. He is clearly not part of Hardwicks future plans.

you said



Selections, plural, so who are the other selections that show we have no intent on making the finals.

also I said we were playing a defender short. Thursfield was playing for Coburg while we had Grimes and Astbury against Buddy and Roughhead....!!

 

[Bazzar]

also I said we were playing a defender short. Thursfield was playing for Coburg while we had Grimes and Astbury against Buddy and Roughhead....!!

That Hawks game was back in round 3 so how can you use that as an example that we dont want to make finals?

Anyway I would have Astbury and Grimes ahead of him any day. Thustfield is in the same boat as Tuck. Will never see him in Yellow and Black jumper again (barring huge injury and suspensions)

If we were around the same position now like this time last year then fair enough, but we are just outside the 8 on percentage, vying for a 7th or 8th spot with 8 other teams who at the end of the day are all hot and cold.

We have a great chance, and I would bet anything making the finals at this stage would be a 100% priority for Hardwick. If we stagger in the next 3 weeks and it becomes mathematically impossible, they we will possibly see some structural changes, but until then its ludicrous even suggesting we dont want to make it.

 

[nut]

That Hawks game was back in round 3 so how can you use that as an example that we dont want to make finals?

We are not hell bent on making the finals.... our selections centred around developing not trying to put our best side on the park.

Anyway I would have Astbury and Grimes ahead of him any day. Thustfield is in the same boat as Tuck. Will never see him in Yellow and Black jumper again (barring huge injury and suspensions)

You are right.... infact he wont play baring injury either as we chose to play a kid in grimes ahead of him.

If we were around the same position now like this time last year then fair enough, but we are just outside the 8 on percentage, vying for a 7th or 8th spot with 8 other teams who at the end of the day are all hot and cold.

We have a great chance, and I would bet anything making the finals at this stage would be a 100% priority for Hardwick. If we stagger in the next 3 weeks and it becomes mathematically impossible, they we will possibly see some structural changes, but until then its ludicrous even suggesting we dont want to make it.

I'l use the Amateur preparation to Darwin as another example of a team not doing everything possible to make the eight.

We are more interested in developing and keeping to OUR structures. Learning and improving.
We are not changing the way we play to suit the opposition.

 

[Bazzar]

We are not hell bent on making the finals.... our selections centred around developing not trying to put our best side on the park.

Where have you heard or read this. Can you show the link as im interested to read it.

 

[nut]

Where have you heard or read this. Can you show the link as im interested to read it.

If it was rnd 24 and we were playing Port in Darwin would we travel up the afternoon before the game if we needed to win to get into the eight????
There is no article with the club admitting we are more interested in getting games into our young players than scrapping into the eight on the back of Thursfield and Tuck....

Round 1 saw us chose to leave our best clearance player in the last decade out of the side against a side that is one of the best clearance sides in the comp.... What bit are you missing?????? We are more concerned about Cotchins midfield development than playing a proven ball winner in tuck. We were disadvantaged short term but long term we are now better off.

 

[CoggaRules]

If it was rnd 24 and we were playing Port in Darwin would we travel up the afternoon before the game if we needed to win to get into the eight????
There is no article with the club admitting we are more interested in getting games into our young players than scrapping into the eight on the back of Thursfield and Tuck....

Round 1 saw us chose to leave our best clearance player in the last decade out of the side against a side that is one of the best clearance sides in the comp.... What bit are you missing?????? We are more concerned about Cotchins midfield development than playing a proven ball winner in tuck. We were disadvantaged short term but long term we are now better off.

As has been discussed forever on this board and in particular with the stats heads like Erayzorhead and others. Once we put together a midfield with talent, the Tucks of this world look like they belong in a team in the bottom 4. Get the picture?

 

[Goldust]

That thing about 'we do not want to make finals' is straight out of the Bentleigh school of bullshit.

It is ludicrous to think that we'll just aim to stay out of the 8 and then burst from the blocks sweeping all before us next year or even later. And the argument that 'it might have the opposite effect' can be countered easily by saying 'if we get smashed it will spur us on'.

I want our team to experience as much finals football as possible, as soon as possible because (a) that's what the bloody game is about and (b) the more experience we get the more used to the pressure of finals football we will be.

Great post Dan .... surely the development side of things and playing finals are not mutually exclusive of each other! I'm sure Hardwick and his team are both mindful of the fact that we are a realistic chance of playing finals (and face it, any finals action is good), while having one eye on the future and developing the list. For what it's worth, I think Hardwick has balanced the two scenarios perfectly. We're in with a shot, while we're also developing as a team and individuals. I think Martin, Cotchin, Nahas, King, White, Vickery as players who are all having better years than last, while we are seeing good things from Conca, Batchelor and Helbig. Competition for a spot in this team will breed success and better players. You don't think the likes of Nahas, King and Vickery aren't performing well because they know they are under the pump to do so????

 

[nut]

As has been discussed forever on this board and in particular with the stats heads like Erayzorhead and others. Once we put together a midfield with talent, the Tucks of this world look like they belong in a team in the bottom 4. Get the picture?

Yes but Tuck was our "best available round 1". So we chose not to play him to give further development to our young players.

This = not selecting our best side.

What we have developed since round 1 is a side that is winning games without the need of Tuck and Thursfield. This was the MAIN GOAL... not winning for the sake of winning but to win using our future players.

 

[CoggaRules]

Yes but Tuck was our "best available round 1". So we chose not to play him to give further development to our young players.

This = not selecting our best side.

What we have developed since round 1 is a side that is winning games without the need of Tuck and Thursfield. This was the MAIN GOAL... not winning for the sake of winning but to win using our future players.

maybe it was to the nuff nuffs here who suggest he is our best clearance player in the last "halcyon filled decade". To others he was been there done that, play it again sam type player that we have seen a cavalcade of.
Once we got Conca to go with the likes of Cotch, Martin a fit Foley and the step up from Nahas, Tuck now looks like i suggested a good player for a team just treading water and wanting draft picks...THE END.
Great servant and I would suggest he should feel good about carving out an AFL career with us. He did ok when we needed him but now we need speed, skill, talent and vision.

 

[telsor]

• Anyone calling for Miller to be dropped from the squad has no idea on the importance of structure and support. The reason Vickery and Jack are having solid a solid season is because we finally have a third tall. You want to see what he offers, watch his work rate in the third quarter of the Lions game. Yes he needs to slot a few more, but, unlike the last ten years, at least we have a guy who can get his hands on it and bring others into the play.

• 
  
  I look forward to him being dropped, but agree that, for now, he plays an important role, and does it better than anyone else can.
  
  Getting gametime into players is a good thing, but there isn't a lot of point if we're not teaching them to play the way we want them to play, so the structure matters more than giving a game to a kid.
  
  

  [*]I am yet to see any player step up from the reserves and have a consistent impact or contribution. Blokes like Gourdis, Morton, Tuck, shouldn't get games for the sake of bringing them in.

  
  More just the love for some players (and hate for others) around here.
  
  

  [*]We don't want to make the finals this year. I want to see finals action so, so bad, but i promise you, if we make it, we will be obliterated. We are not ready. It could have the opposite effect, and set us back a year. It's about prolonged success, i'd rather wait till next year if it meant possibly 6-8 years of consistent finals action.

  
  No way. While I still think we'll miss out, I WANT us to make finals...You think game time helps players develop, finals experience would be like gold.
  
  

  [*]Bachar Houli is possibly pick up of the year.

  
  I think the fact the Essendon supporters have stopped bagging us for picking up a spud says it all.
  
  

  [*]Griggs is not a ****ing ruckman.

  
  Grigg is not a ruckman.
  
  Griggs on the other hand could be anything.
  
  

  [*]Hislop will play his final game in the seniors either this week or next.

  
  I refer back to the point about the love/hate for players...Me, I'll let those full time, professional coaches we have down at Punt Road make those calls. They might get it wrong, but they're more likely to be right than BF groupthink.

 

[Bazzar]

maybe it was to the nuff nuffs here who suggest he is our best clearance player in the last "halcyon filled decade". To others he was been there done that, play it again sam type player that we have seen a cavalcade of.
Once we got Conca to go with the likes of Cotch, Martin a fit Foley and the step up from Nahas, Tuck now looks like i suggested a good player for a team just treading water and wanting draft picks...THE END.
Great servant and I would suggest he should feel good about carving out an AFL career with us. He did ok when we needed him but now we need speed, skill, talent and vision.

Spot on. Thats why he was shopped around and nobody wanted him. The game has passed him by. To slow with limited disposal skills. With the congestion of todays press, winning contested ball and blindly bombing it just doesnt work.

You only have to look at our disposal, we are clearly number one for uncontested footy, and because of that we are also number one for goals kicked coast to coast and through an unbroken chain of possession. Its clearly a departure from last year when "defensive" play/skills were the teams number one priority, and then Tuck was valuable, and we also ended the year in the top 5 for clearances and contested ball at the stoppages. Its the reverse this year.

Will this change back next year? I have a feeling it will, because we were told last year that this year will be based on "offensive" development. But for now slow limited inside players like Tucky will never be part of the team.

 

[captain blood 17]

Can i just a say a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has actually been very enjoyable to read. There's been some great points raised by everyone and it's good the points of view haven't degraded into slanging matches. I take on board what has been said, but still not sold personally. We have come a long way from 15th on the ladder and round 9 last year, i just want permanent success, not a flash in the pan (like everybody else). I love the Tigers and i love Bazzar. Keep up the good work and passion everyone.