Roast Irritating things.

[Mr Budda Bing]

Our slow starts. Only benefit is that we run out games well but come finals or important games against the likes of Collingwood and Geelong we can't let this happen.

 

[sante]

Things that irritate me: posters saying 'We don't want to make finals".

This

 

[Rayzorwire]

What are the odds that we'll have our best 22 on the park, fit and in form while the opposition are hit pretty hard with injury?

Higher than the odds you get from not being there.

We weren't exactly competitive with the Swans

We weren't exactly playing our best-22.

Freo are a totally different side when playing at home with their crowd behind them.

Freo are reliant on a handful of players and are one of the most vulnerable of the top sides considering their injury list.

How many players do we have that have played finals?

And here you are arguing against making that our no.1 priority for the season...

There is an old saying about footballers when they get to around 30, the game can and will pass them by very quickly.

Old sayings V Tuck's bloodline...I know which I'd be backing.

Now while Tuck might be fit and raring to go, it seems that there just isn't a place for him in our side given the changes made to the gameplan i.e. from a contested ball winning side to a run and gun side.

Yeah, apparently we're happy to be an outside ball use side who gets regularly thumped at the fundamentals of everything else.

 

[_RT_]

Higher than the odds you get from not being there.

Even then its still pretty slim. In fact I'd say there is less than 5% chance of it happening.

BTW after watching the undermanned Hawks destroy the near full strength Bombers tonight do you still think we're a decent chance against them with our best 22 running around? I reckon we'd be lucky to get within 5 goals.

We weren't exactly playing our best-22.

Given the odds of us having our best 22 available and firing in the first week of the finals its safe to say the 22 we were playing that day would be fairly close to the one we would take into a final.

Freo are reliant on a handful of players and are one of the most vulnerable of the top sides considering their injury list.

Yet despite their injury list they still sit above us on the ladder and in the next few weeks will be getting more and more of their better players back.

And here you are arguing against making that our no.1 priority for the season...

Because as I said I don't see the value in making finals if you can't at least compete with the better teams.

Old sayings V Tuck's bloodline...I know which I'd be backing.

Tucks old man was playing in his mid/late 30's some 20 years ago. The game has changed greatly since then.

Yeah, apparently we're happy to be an outside ball use side who gets regularly thumped at the fundamentals of everything else.

If Tuck was seen as so important to our setup don't you think he would be in the side already?

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

If Tuck was seen as so important to our setup don't you think he would be in the side already?

NO...for the simple reason its all about development of the young players...

While the Posts, webberleys, goo, hislop, graham's etc etc are on the development interchange between coburg and the richmond side, tucky will miss out...

If our side was just about picking the best side to win...tucky would be in...

Its not importance thats keeping tucky out but development of the younger recruits...

 

[santa claws]

supporters who cant see further than this weeks game. supporters who idolise our players before they actually prove anything. sheesh that sums most up.

do we want to make finals of course. just so long as we realise what it may really mean and the amount of work we may need to still do.

lets be honest 7th 8th is a position of mediocrity and in reality means we are probably on the same level as 8 or more other ordinary teams.

and while we are being honest yes we have only beaten ordinary or injury depleted sides.in fact if freo and essendon drop out of the 8 we wont beat any of the top 8 sides.and lets face it for us to make it its highly likely one of these sides will have to drop if not both.

 

[santa claws]

NO...for the simple reason its all about development of the young players...

While the Posts, webberleys, goo, hislop, graham's etc etc are on the development interchange between coburg and the richmond side, tucky will miss out...

If our side was just about picking the best side to win...tucky would be in...

Its not importance thats keeping tucky out but development of the younger recruits...

if that is true why is miller getting games.

 

[tugga]

supporters who cant see further than this weeks game. supporters who idolise our players before they actually prove anything. sheesh that sums most up.

do we want to make finals of course. just so long as we realise what it may really mean and the amount of work we may need to still do.

lets be honest 7th 8th is a position of mediocrity and in reality means we are probably on the same level as 8 or more other ordinary teams.

and while we are being honest yes we have only beaten ordinary or injury depleted sides.in fact if freo and essendon drop out of the 8 we wont beat any of the top 8 sides.and lets face it for us to make it its highly likely one of these sides will have to drop if not both.

Iwill take going along to see my side in a final any day of the week Santa. As a 41 year old, 35 year Tiger member, I deserve it and so do all the other Richmond supporters, whether we are making up the numbers or not.

 

[santa claws]

• I am yet to see any player step up from the reserves and have a consistent impact or contribution. Blokes like Gourdis, Morton, Tuck, shouldn't get games for the sake of bringing them in.

• 
  
  you are wrong here we bring players in all the time for the sake of bringing them in.
  i would argue very few on the entire list have ever dominated at coburg before being called up for a game.
  what has any of the kids ever done at coburg to earn a game. or any of the older players like white king webberley nason mcguane thursfield morton connors and on i can go. they have all been gifted games and regularly.

 

[_RT_]

do we want to make finals of course. just so long as we realise what it may really mean and the amount of work we may need to still do.

lets be honest 7th 8th is a position of mediocrity and in reality means we are probably on the same level as 8 or more other ordinary teams.

and while we are being honest yes we have only beaten ordinary or injury depleted sides.in fact if freo and essendon drop out of the 8 we wont beat any of the top 8 sides.and lets face it for us to make it its highly likely one of these sides will have to drop if not both.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the whole finals arguement. Odds are if we make it, it will be because we've beaten all the sides we should beat, but at the same time have been fortunate to have a few sides that should be ahead of us fall in a heap i.e. Saints Dogs & Freo.

When we make finals I don't want to be just their because 8 teams have to be there, I want to be in with a shot of winning at least 1 final if not the whole thing. Right at this point in time I just don't see us being able to do that this year, even if we had our best 22 playing.

 

[santa claws]

• Anyone calling for Miller to be dropped from the squad has no idea on the importance of structure and support. The reason Vickery and Jack are having solid a solid season is because we finally have a third tall. You want to see what he offers, watch his work rate in the third quarter of the Lions game. Yes he needs to slot a few more, but, unlike the last ten years, at least we have a guy who can get his hands on it and bring others into the play.

• 
  
  or this now that is just plain wrong.
  
  miller got promoted because we had just ONE established tall forward in jack and he needed a bigger body and some experience to help out.
  
  we now have two competetive tall forwards and it does not include miller.
  
  the reason vickery has improved is not because of miller its called a natural progression and simply put the only place for him to go was up.
  some would argue jack has gone backwards i certainly dont think this yr anywhere near as good as last yr to date.
  finally ive watched closely what miller offers and it aint much. he doesnt get his hands on it and he certainly doesnt bring others into the play. and he certainly isnt helping jack out who is still regularly getting double teamed.
  vickery and jack offer us a bit of structure and a future it really is time to now develop another young tall forward as the third tall option. it is time to look to the future and development of the list long term miller has served his purpose.

 

[captain blood 17]

you are wrong here we bring players in all the time for the sake of bringing them in.
i would argue very few on the entire list have ever dominated at coburg before being called up for a game.
what has any of the kids ever done at coburg to earn a game. or any of the older players like white king webberley nason mcguane thursfield morton connors and on i can go. they have all been gifted games and regularly.

That's why i made the point of saying they shouldn't. If players are doing what is asked of them at the senior level, we shouldn't change the team up too much barring injury or suspension or a drop in form.
How many threads have you read "why isn't blah blah getting a game" etc. We seem to get these hang ups on players that have done **** all. If Post and Griffiths deserve a game, then let us see a month of them ripping it up at Coburg.
If so many people believe we are ready for finals, then guess what, Miller stays and plays. How people can't see that is staggering.

 

[captain blood 17]

or this now that is just plain wrong.

miller got promoted because we had just ONE established tall forward in jack and he needed a bigger body and some experience to help out.

we now have two competetive tall forwards and it does not include miller.

the reason vickery has improved is not because of miller its called a natural progression and simply put the only place for him to go was up.
some would argue jack has gone backwards i certainly dont think this yr anywhere near as good as last yr to date.
finally ive watched closely what miller offers and it aint much. he doesnt get his hands on it and he certainly doesnt bring others into the play. and he certainly isnt helping jack out who is still regularly getting double teamed.
vickery and jack offer us a bit of structure and a future it really is time to now develop another young tall forward as the third tall option. it is time to look to the future and development of the list long term miller has served his purpose.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Until anything else steps up, Millers the boy. And he has played well and he has helped the development of Jack and Vicks. How is it we are offensively better with our coleman medalist having a quiet patch?

 

[Bazzar]

lets be honest 7th 8th is a position of mediocrity and in reality means we are probably on the same level as 8 or more other ordinary teams.

Someone forgot to tell the Eagles in `02 - 8th `03 - 7th and `04 - 7th then they won the `06 Flag.

Or the Pies in `08 when they came 8th only to win the `10 flag.

And dont forget Carlton in `09 - 7th and `10 - 8th, and they are the only threat to Collingwood and Geelong this year.

Yep Santa, finishing 7th or 8th is very mediocre. We mose well put the que in the rack now and try for better draft picks next year. Wadda yu reckon?

 

[Rayzorwire]

BTW after watching the undermanned Hawks destroy the near full strength Bombers tonight do you still think we're a decent chance against them with our best 22 running around?

The side which will be missing Rioli and Sewell next week through injury, which has only reinforced my earlier point about them struggling to get their players through to the end of the year. Injury and suspension risks makes them very vulnerable come finals time, tonight's game could hardly have illustrated my point better.

Given the odds of us having our best 22 available and firing in the first week of the finals its safe to say the 22 we were playing that day would be fairly close to the one we would take into a final.

May well do, but I said best-22 and the selection committee hasn't once picked our best-22 this year.

Yet despite their injury list they still sit above us on the ladder and in the next few weeks will be getting more and more of their better players back.

Maybe, and they could just as easily lose more.

Because as I said I don't see the value in making finals if you can't at least compete with the better teams.

Massive off-field financial upside flowing through to next season, our players experiencing the buzz and hype of a final build-up and not going through it for the first time next year, the possibility of at least some limited success - how can you seriously say you don't see the value?

Tucks old man was playing in his mid/late 30's some 20 years ago. The game has changed greatly since then.

The same attributes each had and have are important in any era. If Tuck was too athletically deficient he wouldn't still be capable of racking up 30 touches a game and running just as hard in the 4th quarter as the last. He's never been fast, none of Foley, Cotchin, Martin or Jackson are genuinely fast for that matter, Tuck's lack of speed is more than compensated for by his stamina and his other attributes as a midfielder - all things which our side currently lacks.

 

[tunksy]

would love for the young team to make finals. sure we'd scrape in and expectations would be up on next year. but the experience would be beneficial for them and will make them want it more.

potential $$ from new members, sponsors, media deals whatever will be huge.

Jack playing a final. Would love to see that as he is the type of player who gets up on the big stage.

 

[aislegi]

There's a thing called mental scarring

You mean, like the way Collingwood were "mentally scarred" by being smashed off the park by Geelong in the 2009 Preliminary Final?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Irritating Things :
1. The over rating of players , based on 1 or 2 good games when they have been given pretty much a loose rein by opposing sides .
2. BF users continual reference and promotion of their favorite players into every possible discussion.
3. Mathew Lloyd and Luke Darcy .

 

[_RT_]

The side which will be missing Rioli and Sewell next week through injury, which has only reinforced my earlier point about them struggling to get their players through to the end of the year. Injury and suspension risks makes them very vulnerable come finals time, tonight's game could hardly have illustrated my point better.

The undermanned Hawks smacked the Dons by 60+ and yet you still think we're a chance against them in a final, when the Hawks would still have a number of premiership players running around and we'd have a team full of finals debutants.

Perhaps we'd be better off fronting up against Carlton, given the way they struggled to overcome the Swans a team we were 'competitive' with the week before I'm sure we'd give them a real shake.

May well do, but I said best-22 and the selection committee hasn't once picked our best-22 this year.

IMO the only 2 players from our best 22 that have regularly missed games this year are Tuck & Moore. I really don't see how those 2 coming in are going to make us a 5 goal better team so that we can compete with the better sides in the 8.

Maybe, and they could just as easily lose more.

Unlikely to happen given they will be getting most of their better players back over the next few weeks.

Massive off-field financial upside flowing through to next season, our players experiencing the buzz and hype of a final build-up and not going through it for the first time next year, the possibility of at least some limited success - how can you seriously say you don't see the value?

I can see the value in those off field areas, just don't see the value in having the side get pumped on the big stage of the finals. Come finals time the pace increases as does the pressure and given we struggle to really compete with those sides in H&A games I don't believe we're going to suddenly turn it around come final.

The same attributes each had and have are important in any era. If Tuck was too athletically deficient he wouldn't still be capable of racking up 30 touches a game and running just as hard in the 4th quarter as the last. He's never been fast, none of Foley, Cotchin, Martin or Jackson are genuinely fast for that matter, Tuck's lack of speed is more than compensated for by his stamina and his other attributes as a midfielder - all things which our side currently lacks.

There is a major difference between 30 touches by Tuck and 30 touches by Foley Cotchin & Martin and that is the quality of those possessions. There is little place in todays game for Tucks types of disposals where its more often than not just a blind hack out of the pack. Very rarely do you see players just blindly banging the ball on the boot given the way sides set up their presses and zones. Its all about smart quick ball use in tight and the spreading from the pack quickly to get out into the open and hurt sides through run and carry. Tucks major weakness just doesn't allow him to be part of that sort of set up.

 

[discofan]

Tigerheads who constantly put us down saying we have not beaten anyone decent and we havnt been that good.

I put my hand up and say that I have said we haven't beaten anyone of note (so far) and I am sticking to it (not saying we haven't been that good though - just not consistent for 4 qrts).
I think at the moment we are a bit off going anywhere near the top 4(and hence will get SMASHED if make the 8 - though would still like to see us there !) and until we can learn to beat even a Sydney or a WC we are just treading water.

 

[discofan]

Spot on. Thats why he was shopped around and nobody wanted him. The game has passed him by. To slow with limited disposal skills. With the congestion of todays press, winning contested ball and blindly bombing it just doesnt work.

You only have to look at our disposal, we are clearly number one for uncontested footy, and because of that we are also number one for goals kicked coast to coast and through an unbroken chain of possession. Its clearly a departure from last year when "defensive" play/skills were the teams number one priority, and then Tuck was valuable, and we also ended the year in the top 5 for clearances and contested ball at the stoppages. Its the reverse this year.

Will this change back next year? I have a feeling it will, because we were told last year that this year will be based on "offensive" development. But for now slow limited inside players like Tucky will never be part of the team.

There is a major difference between 30 touches by Tuck and 30 touches by Foley Cotchin & Martin and that is the quality of those possessions. There is little place in todays game for Tucks types of disposals where its more often than not just a blind hack out of the pack. Very rarely do you see players just blindly banging the ball on the boot given the way sides set up their presses and zones. Its all about smart quick ball use in tight and the spreading from the pack quickly to get out into the open and hurt sides through run and carry. Tucks major weakness just doesn't allow him to be part of that sort of set up.[/quote RT73]


got to agree with above.

to the thread - things that irritate me
- every 5 mins on either here or the RFC website, somebody saying 'give Tuck a guernsey'.
Apologies to Tucky as I know he gives his all but I really can't see a spot for him in our side today.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

There is a major difference between 30 touches by Tuck and 30 touches by Foley Cotchin & Martin and that is the quality of those possessions. There is little place in todays game for Tucks types of disposals where its more often than not just a blind hack out of the pack. Very rarely do you see players just blindly banging the ball on the boot given the way sides set up their presses and zones. Its all about smart quick ball use in tight and the spreading from the pack quickly to get out into the open and hurt sides through run and carry. Tucks major weakness just doesn't allow him to be part of that sort of set up.

Lingy of geelong is no different...no speed...cant out run his shadow to save himself on a dark night...

Bangs the ball in any which way...turns the ball over...wild handballs over his head...gets caught with the footy...

And he's been in two winning GFS...

He keeps winning the ball...just like tucky...

And he's as tough as nails...like tucky...

Keeps smashing into the oppositions star centres...

Only difference is geelong want ling in their best side...

 

[_RT_]

Lingy of geelong is no different...no speed...cant out run his shadow to save himself on a dark night...

Bangs the ball in any which way...turns the ball over...wild handballs over his head...gets caught with the footy...

And he's been in two winning GFS...

He keeps winning the ball...just like tucky...

And he's as tough as nails...like tucky...

Keeps smashing into the oppositions star centres...

Only difference is geelong want ling in their best side...

Difference between Ling and Tuck is Ling is the Cats tagger, whose primary role is to shut down the oppositions better midfielders, that is why he is in their best side. Tuck has shown he can't shut down an opponent out and more often than not his opponent is more damaging that what Tuck is. If anything Jackson is our version of Ling.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Difference between Ling and Tuck is Ling is the Cats tagger, whose primary role is to shut down the oppositions better midfielders, that is why he is in their best side. Tuck has shown he can't shut down an opponent out and more often than not his opponent is more damaging that what Tuck is. If anything Jackson is our version of Ling.

Some one had better tell lingy his role in the side is as tagger!......

 

[TigerBlood87]

Plus Ling is a beautiful kick which is more than you can say for Tuck unfortunately.