Is North Melbourne passing on Logan McDonald going to be the 2021 version of the Bulldogs passing on Buddy for Ryan Griffin

[RUNVS]

It would have been fine to take Phillips if he was any good. The inexplicable mistake was then taking three more small midfielders with our next three picks in that draft, Powell, Lazzaro, Spicer. This made no sense at all and skewed our list profile.

Yes, North stuck with drafting midfielders for too long. You guys are screaming for some KP players and should have begun drafting them years ago given how long they take to develop.

 

[Jeremias]

It would have been fine to take Phillips if he was any good. The inexplicable mistake was then taking three more small midfielders with our next three picks in that draft, Powell, Lazzaro, Spicer. This made no sense at all and skewed our list profile.

I think the mistake was not taking McDonald and kicking off the rebuild with a KP prospect, but there may well be other factors at play there that we're not privy to.

But, you have to trust the work your recruiters do in the years leading up to the draft. If they rated Phillips as highly as it appears they did, you don't pass on the opportunity to bring him in because you may be able to get Powell, Lazarro, Spicer later in the draft.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

This is not necessarily true.

I agree it was a mistake - I rate Logan and expect Wil to be off North's list at the end of this season - but which mids are you talking about specifically?

LDU was there. Simpkin was there. Thomas was there. Who else?

The influx of mids you're referencing came in the years following the Phillips draft.

I think regardless, if your list is missing a KPF and you have a high pick around where the KPF is rated, you take the KPF. North dont have enough KPPs because they have not put enough capital into them. You can say they had their ratings but clearly their ratings were wrong.

There is ALWAYS 6+ potentially very good mids in the top 10, there is maximum 3 (and mostly 1 or 2) good KPF prospects at the top of a draft.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

North last made finals in 2016, since then, the Key forwards or backs they have drafted are:
2023: Dawson
2022: No one
2021: No one
2020: No one
2019: Comben
2018: No one
2017: No one

That is actually insane

 

[eth-dog]

North's mistakes:

1. Drafting Phillips over DGB (I maintain their key defence was the area they needed to fix, I didn't mind not taking McDonald because of Larkey and Comben both being highly rated KPF prospects).
2. Not trading pick 1 and the F2 for the 3x FRP. Would have then had access to Gibcus (key defender they need), Busslinger (another KPD they didn't take, or any player between him and Humphrey.
3. Not taking Curtin. Another KPP that could be a 10+ year player.

Right now their key defenders are Wil Dawson (looks like a long term prospect), Charlie Comben (had a good start to the year but they drafted him as a forward then switched him to defence due to poor planning), Bigoa Nyuon (Looks like a deer in headlights), Aidan Corr

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Aidan Corr

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13.9

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(s**t and turns 30 in 2 weeks), Toby Pink (25 year old that looks way too slow at AFL level without exceptional attributes otherwise), Kallan Dawson (state league battler) and Griffen Logue (good, but ACL injury and will be 27 before he gets back).

Yes, there are 7, but two look a looooooong way off (Dawson, Nyuon), two are state league battlers (Pink, Dawson), one spud (Corr) and one injured long term (Logue). Comben is a good prospect but is he gonna be forward or back?

 

[RUNVS]

North's mistakes:

1. Drafting Phillips over DGB (I maintain their key defence was the area they needed to fix, I didn't mind not taking McDonald because of Larkey and Comben both being highly rated KPF prospects).
2. Not trading pick 1 and the F2 for the 3x FRP. Would have then had access to Gibcus (key defender they need), Busslinger (another KPD they didn't take, or any player between him and Humphrey.
3. Not taking Curtin. Another KPP that could be a 10+ year player.

Right now their key defenders are Wil Dawson (looks like a long term prospect), Charlie Comben (had a good start to the year but they drafted him as a forward then switched him to defence due to poor planning), Bigoa Nyuon (Looks like a deer in headlights), Aidan Corr (s**t and turns 30 in 2 weeks), Toby Pink (25 year old that looks way too slow at AFL level without exceptional attributes otherwise), Kallan Dawson (state league battler) and Griffen Logue (good, but ACL injury and will be 27 before he gets back).

Yes, there are 7, but two look a looooooong way off (Dawson, Nyuon), two are state league battlers (Pink, Dawson), one spud (Corr) and one injured long term (Logue). Comben is a good prospect but is he gonna be forward or back?

I honestly don't get why more clubs with pick 1 don't trade that pick to get more picks inside the top 10. It is a better way of rebuilding your list and bringing in more young talented players. 1 player is not going to make a huge difference, even if they are pick 1, but 2 inside the top 10 and one near the end of the first round might help jumpstart a rebuild.

 

[big_e]

North last made finals in 2016, since then, the Key forwards or backs they have drafted are:
2023: Dawson
2022: No one
2021: No one
2020: No one
2019: Comben
2018: No one
2017: No one

That is actually insane

Probably worth mentioning that we had a number of KPPs drafted in the few years before then: Durdin, Nielsen, Vickers-Willis (all 2013), McKay (2015) and Larkey (2016).

And of course the national draft is only one of several methods for recruiting players.

Throw in those taken in the MSD or rookie drafts (Edwards 2021, K Dawson 2022, Maley 2023).

We also picked up some via trade, free agency and the like: Pink, Sellers and Nyuon 2023, Logue 2022, Coleman-Jones 2021, Corr 2020, Walker 2019, Campbell 2018.

So while it's correct to say we haven't taken many KPPs in the national draft, that's not telling the full story.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Probably worth mentioning that we had a number of KPPs drafted in the few years before then: Durdin, Nielsen, Vickers-Willis (all 2013), McKay (2015) and Larkey (2016).

And of course the national draft is only one of several methods for recruiting players.

Throw in those taken in the MSD or rookie drafts (Edwards 2021, K Dawson 2022, Maley 2023).

We also picked up some via trade, free agency and the like: Pink, Sellers and Nyuon 2023, Logue 2022, Coleman-Jones 2021, Corr 2020, Walker 2019, Campbell 2018.

So while it's correct to say we haven't taken many KPPs in the national draft, that's not telling the full story.

Still shows a bizarre approach to not spend any decent currency on them. CCJ the only one there where actual draft currency was spent. Logue and Corr were essentially free and the rest of them werent good enough to go in the national draft or were delisted.

Like, if we include 2016 for Larkey, in the same time where Freo has been rebuilding, it's Logue (8), Cox (41), Dixon (44), Amiss (9), Benning (54), Draper (NGA), Davies (33) and Murphy (41). There is still traded / FA pick-ups as well.

It's just insane list management

 

[HTPunter]

Picking Phillips is just going to be an outright blunder, in the Plowman/Dyl Stephens/Dow mould of it doesn’t matter who was taken after him.

He’s tracking for a Paddy Dow

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14.1

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7.0

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7.1

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M

2.1

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T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

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2.0

3star

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0.0

1star

D

12.4

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K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

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2.6

5star

type time at North.

 

[big_e]

Still shows a bizarre approach to not spend any decent currency on them. CCJ the only one there where actual draft currency was spent. Logue and Corr were essentially free and the rest of them werent good enough to go in the national draft or were delisted.

Like, if we include 2016 for Larkey, in the same time where Freo has been rebuilding, it's Logue (8), Cox (41), Dixon (44), Amiss (9), Benning (54), Draper (NGA), Davies (33) and Murphy (41). There is still traded / FA pick-ups as well.

It's just insane list management

I think the belief was that because "big men take time" we would load up with mids, rise up the ladder a bit and then chase established (or emerging) KPPs with the promise of success and big wads of cash. Why pay a high price for a player when you only find out in four or five years that they're no good? It's much, much easier picking mids - partly because they're more likely to play straight away, but also because it's easier to turn them into something else, be it a flanker, rebounding defender, etc. Meanwhile, if you spend a rookie pick on someone and they don't work out, it's no big deal.

I don't think that's a good way of building a list, for what it's worth, that's just why I think they did it, which is an important part of the equation. It's also clear that development has been poor for several years, which hasn't helped.

 

[Jeremias]

I think regardless, if your list is missing a KPF and you have a high pick around where the KPF is rated, you take the KPF.

I generally agree with this, but I will make the point that at the time of that draft, North was literally missing everything.

North dont have enough KPPs because they have not put enough capital into them. You can say they had their ratings but clearly their ratings were wrong.

Sure, they were wrong. But at the time they weren't to know that and if you can't trust your ratings, you are in the wrong profession.

Which, as it turns out, was probably the case for North's recruiters regardless of rankings.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

This is not necessarily true.

I agree it was a mistake - I rate Logan and expect Wil to be off North's list at the end of this season - but which mids are you talking about specifically?

LDU was there. Simpkin was there. Thomas was there. Who else?

The influx of mids you're referencing came in the years following the Phillips draft.

Generally midfielders are more common at the top end of the draft

 

[eth-dog]

Generally midfielders are more common at the top end of the draft

But generally speaking the best key forwards are taken at the pointy ends. Look at the top 10 key forwards in the Coleman right now:

Curnow, Hogan, Waterman*, King, Cameron, McKay, McDonald, Larkey, Tracey, Naughton, Mihocek

Yes Hogan was mini draft and Cameron was pre listed but both were massive talents that would have gone first round if they were there.

*Waterman could be argued as being a medium, not tall.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Elijah Hollands was there for the taking if they didn’t want a KPP. Perkins and Bruhn perhaps reaching but good recruiters don’t blow picks on dime a dozen mids because the phantom drafts told them too.

It has been great seeing the 2020 draft class begin to take off after an understandably slow start.

 

[RUNVS]

Elijah Hollands was there for the taking if they didn’t want a KPP. Perkins and Bruhn perhaps reaching but good recruiters don’t blow picks on dime a dozen mids because the phantom drafts told them too.

It has been great seeing the 2020 draft class begin to take off after an understandably slow start.

Every year there are draft mistakes but this one does feel more forgivable given it was covid year and the clubs had so little information to go on compared to most draft years. It is understandable there were more mistakes.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Elijah Hollands was there for the taking if they didn’t want a KPP. Perkins and Bruhn perhaps reaching but good recruiters don’t blow picks on dime a dozen mids because the phantom drafts told them too.

It has been great seeing the 2020 draft class begin to take off after an understandably slow start.

Why would North have taken Hollands? Bad knee injury and one paced half forward flank worse than existing options on the list.

A few years later he is still a one paced half forward flank worse than existing options on the list but he has the added bonus of being on the nose beers.

You got him cheap for a reason.

 

[Jeremias]

Fancy having a go at Elijah for that. Clutching at straws.

The kid made a mistake, was punished, came to Carlton and got to work.

One can only wonder where North may be had their players worked as hard as Elijah did over the preseason.

Maybe they’d have won a game.

 

[Farang83150]

North's mistakes:

1. Drafting Phillips over DGB (I maintain their key defence was the area they needed to fix, I didn't mind not taking McDonald because of Larkey and Comben both being highly rated KPF prospects).
2. Not trading pick 1 and the F2 for the 3x FRP. Would have then had access to Gibcus (key defender they need), Busslinger (another KPD they didn't take, or any player between him and Humphrey.
3. Not taking Curtin. Another KPP that could be a 10+ year player.

Right now their key defenders are Wil Dawson (looks like a long term prospect), Charlie Comben (had a good start to the year but they drafted him as a forward then switched him to defence due to poor planning), Bigoa Nyuon (Looks like a deer in headlights), Aidan Corr (s**t and turns 30 in 2 weeks), Toby Pink (25 year old that looks way too slow at AFL level without exceptional attributes otherwise), Kallan Dawson (state league battler) and Griffen Logue (good, but ACL injury and will be 27 before he gets back).

Yes, there are 7, but two look a looooooong way off (Dawson, Nyuon), two are state league battlers (Pink, Dawson), one spud (Corr) and one injured long term (Logue). Comben is a good prospect but is he gonna be forward or back?

DGB who's shown absolutely FA, even Hawks supporters don't want him.

 

[eth-dog]

DGB who's shown absolutely FA, even Hawks supporters don't want him.

I'm not saying he's not a bust, I'm saying that he was the most logical selection at the time.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Why would North have taken Hollands? Bad knee injury and one paced half forward flank worse than existing options on the list.

A few years later he is still a one paced half forward flank worse than existing options on the list but he has the added bonus of being on the nose beers.

You got him cheap for a reason.

He would be within your best dozen players.

 

[The acurate one]

Well last draft we took

Will Dawson 201cm
Taylor Goad 207cm
Finnbar Maley 197cm
And Charlie Comben seems to be staying on the park 199cm. And importantly he can play.
So you can all sleep easy tonight.


And yes Phillips is a bust, happens to every club.

 

[RUNVS]

Well last draft we took

Will Dawson 201cm
Taylor Goad 207cm
Finnbar Maley 197cm
And Charlie Comben seems to be staying on the park 199cm. And importantly he can play.
So you can all sleep easy tonight.

You still took two midfielders with picks 2 and 4 which indicates KP players still are not North's priority.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Fancy having a go at Elijah for that. Clutching at straws.

The kid made a mistake, was punished, came to Carlton and got to work.

One can only wonder where North may be had their players worked as hard as Elijah did over the preseason.

Maybe they’d have won a game.

And what does Elijah Hollands preseason effort this year have to do with not drafting him.

I wasn't having a go at Holland either just one poster talking shite.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

You still took two midfielders with picks 2 and 4 which indicates KP players still are not North's priority.

How many KP players would you have liked us to take to satisfy you? 5, 6, 7?

Pretty sure we bid on a KP at pick 2 but unfortunately he was an academy player.

 

[RUNVS]

How many KP players would you have liked us to take to satisfy you? 5, 6, 7?

Pretty sure we bid on a KP at pick 2 but unfortunately he was an academy player.

Trade down a bit, grab one of Curtain, Caddy or O'Sullivan.