Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

[Gethelred]

Part I:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Breaking the law. 'International humanitarian law prohibits a siege of Gaza, UN human rights commissioner says From CNN's Eve Brennan Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 7, 2018. Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in...

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Thread Rules:

Alright.

I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. I appreciate that Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• If I see the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

If you accumulate enough points in a 12 month period you will lose privileges:

5 points - 1 week off.
10 points - 2 weeks off
15 points - 3 weeks off
20 points - Account banned.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates a part of this forum that isn't on Int Pol or the SRP does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Thanks all.

Play nicely, all.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Mmm. Good point. I think there used to be a head honcho somewhere but whether anyone listens anymore. Who knows.
Return of all hostages would be away of showing that you are fair dinkum about things.

How would they return hostages safely, when Israel shoots anything that waves a white flag?

Do you think a UN peacekeeping force should be deployed, for example?

 

[Crankyhawk]

If they surrender it will be unconditional surrender. If Hamas doesn’t meet Israel’s stipulations then it will be back on.

the question is in that situation would you still believe Israels position that hamas must be lying about surrender and therefore still greenlight the ongoing slaughter of palestinians in order to get that last bit of hamas? The tone of your reply suggests acceptance and ambivalence that Israel would do so.

 

[sr36]

Israel needs to be unmade. Right NOW.

I think they're well and truly sowing the seeds for their future destruction. It's just so stupidly short sighted. There's approx 8 million Israelis surrounded by 90 milliion Iranians and 400 million Arabs. To assume that they'll always garner the support of other countries and thus always be militarily miles ahead of these other countries is just nuts. In the long run, they just can't afford to be fuelling such hatred against them.

 

[ferball]

If I read something from a journalist that uses terms like slaughter or genocide then I know it’s an opinion piece and dont give it much thought .. other than here we go.

That's only cos you're incapable of giving anything much thought.

You might read an article about football and have the same problem.

 

[QuietB]

How would they return hostages safely, when Israel shoots anything that waves a white flag?

Do you think a UN peacekeeping force should be deployed, for example?

If Netanyahu was not a genocidal maniac a UN peacekeeping force of some kind - probably excluding the USA and Arab states - was the correct answer from day 1.

That would however would have been a very inconvenient barrier to committing genocide.

Indiscriminately murdering UN staff is one thing, taking out an entire peacekeeping force of mostly Europeans is more problematic.

Netanyahu probably would have still done it though.

 

[Roylion]

fabricate history about a fictitious kingdom

That is not correct.

 

[Saint]

Anybody who thinks that if Hamas releases all the hostages that Israel will let them surrender peacefully is kidding themselves.

The minute there is confirmation there are no more hostages to worry about, the slaughter will increase.

They've made it clear that the hostages are a tertiary priority. Priority #1 is killing Hamas members, #2 is ethnically cleansing Gaza. #3 is lying to the world, #4 is Netanyahu keeping his job, #5 is maybe saving hostages. They've killed more than they've saved and that's not even counting the ones they killed on October 7th.

 

[sr36]

Here is a tough one for you relating to Egypt.

Shouldn’t Egypt be doing more regarding opening up borders to save innocent lives. They were the ones originally who said don’t worry about being a country let’s just get rid of Israel and have the whole lot and now they have dropped them like a hot potato. Surely they must feel a little responsible for their fellow Arabs plight.
There are Arab countries everywhere over there that would be happy to look after the Palestine civilians.

Do Palestinians hate Egyptians now ?

Are you not following? Egypt can't be seen to abet Israeli ethnic cleansing by encouraging Palestinians across the border. However, they're building a bloody large refugee camp in case what looks inevitable comes to pass.

 

[QuietB]

Here is a tough one for you relating to Egypt.

Shouldn’t Egypt be doing more regarding opening up borders to save innocent lives. They were the ones originally who said don’t worry about being a country let’s just get rid of Israel and have the whole lot and now they have dropped them like a hot potato. Surely they must feel a little responsible for their fellow Arabs plight.
There are Arab countries everywhere over there that would be happy to look after the Palestine civilians.

Do Palestinians hate Egyptians now ?

Why doesn’t Israel let the Palestinians into Israel?

They are only at war with Hamas after all

 

[Saint]

Why doesn’t Israel let the Palestinians into Israel?

They are only at war with Hamas after all

Racism.

Anyone who asks why Egypt isn't accepting Palestinians without asking why the aggressor and occupier is constraining and killing them more and more is almost certainly racist.

Just because they're Arabs, they can only to go Arab places?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Why doesn’t Israel let the Palestinians into Israel?

They are only at war with Hamas after all

They can't tell the difference.

I read a thing where Israeli's got hysterical because there was an arab on the bus.
Turned out to be a darked skinned ( Indigenous ) Israeli Jew.

But there were reasons for their paranoia.

 

[Zidane98]

Why doesn’t Israel let the Palestinians into Israel?

They are only at war with Hamas after all

They did.

On Sept 29th.

Qatar mediates opening of Gaza-Israel crossing as protests end

Border opened after demonstrations by Palestinian workers with an informal agreement Qatar helped mediate, envoy says.

www.aljazeera.com

Gazan workers in Israel are not cheap labour either like some claim. 10 X the rates they earn in Gaza.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Looks like the whatsapp group dropped some new talking points.

 

[Chief]

Oh. Workers.

How are they now Israel has levelled their homes and killed their friends and families?

 

[sr36]

They did.

On Sept 29th.

Qatar mediates opening of Gaza-Israel crossing as protests end

Border opened after demonstrations by Palestinian workers with an informal agreement Qatar helped mediate, envoy says.

www.aljazeera.com

Gazan workers in Israel are not cheap labour either like some claim. 10 X the rates they earn in Gaza.

https://www.ituc-csi.org/IMG/pdf/ituc_palestinereport_en.pdf

 

[Number37]

Yes if the IDF surrendered the war would stop. Not everyone would go home happy but the killing of innocent women and children would stop. Isn’t that what we are all here for ?

Who is it that is killing women and children?
Israel.
Israel can stop killing women and children tomorrow, easily. They don't even need to negotiate with anyone. They could just stop killing women and children.
It is so simple.
Why won't Israel stop killing women and children?

 

[Number37]

But being morally correct or it’s not Egypts fault that they built a wall ..isn’t helping the children caught in a war zone that are dying.
Can’t they at least let the women and children through that want to get the hell out of there?

They wouldn't need to if Israel wasn't forcing women and children to flee under the threat of being slaughtered.
Israel can stop forcing women and children to flee, right now.
Why won't Israel stop slaughtering women and children???

 

[Number37]

Here’s the original question which I answered clearly and plainly but I will try again.

Yes I would be still talking about Egypt and other countries taking in Israelis .

Don’t know how that is any different to how I answered it the first time but surely I have answered it now ?

No you haven't answered.

Would it be a genocide if Hamas was killing 30,000 Israelis?
Would it be a genocide if Hamas was clearing Israel of all Israelis??

 

[Number37]

That is not correct.

I asked you before to provide sources for your 'evidence' and you refused.
I suspect that you refused because it would expose your BS for what it is.
There is no kingdom without reference to the scripture.
It is impossible to get to kingdom without reference to the scripture. IMPOSSIBLE.

"there was a stele and seal" is NOT evidence.
They have to be tied to "kingdom" in some way. The only way to tie them to "kingdom" is by placing them in the right time frame.
The universally accepted time frame (chronology) comes from, and can only be established via, the scripture.
It can only be established via the scripture because there is zero evidence for 99% of it.

 

[Gethelred]

I asked you before to provide sources for your 'evidence' and you refused.
I suspect that you refused because it would expose your BS for what it is.
There is no kingdom without reference to the scripture.
It is impossible to get to kingdom without reference to the scripture. IMPOSSIBLE.

"there was a stele and seal" is NOT evidence.
They have to be tied to "kingdom" in some way. The only way to tie them to "kingdom" is by placing them in the right time frame.
The universally accepted time frame (chronology) comes from, and can only be established via, the scripture.
It can only be established via the scripture because there is zero evidence for 99% of it.

Dude, take it to the other thread if you want to rehash that argument. It's not what this one's about.

 

[Saint]

They did.

On Sept 29th.

Qatar mediates opening of Gaza-Israel crossing as protests end

Border opened after demonstrations by Palestinian workers with an informal agreement Qatar helped mediate, envoy says.

www.aljazeera.com

Gazan workers in Israel are not cheap labour either like some claim. 10 X the rates they earn in Gaza.

You missed out the bit where the Israeli occupation drove the Gazan economy to the brink of collapse with 40% unemployment. Then supposed to give them a pat on the back for letting a few of them into Israel.

And don't forget they charge them nearly half of their wage for the permit!

 

[Roylion]

I asked you before to provide sources for your 'evidence' and you refused.

Plenty of evidence here. Feel free to debate it there instead of grandstanding here.

 

[QuietB]

They did.

On Sept 29th.

Qatar mediates opening of Gaza-Israel crossing as protests end

Border opened after demonstrations by Palestinian workers with an informal agreement Qatar helped mediate, envoy says.

www.aljazeera.com

Gazan workers in Israel are not cheap labour either like some claim. 10 X the rates they earn in Gaza.

Yes yes - Israel are model citizens we all should follow.

It would be one effective way to combat climate change and all of humanities other challenges - just murder everyone.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

A United States Air Force Officer has self immolated in protest against the genocide, at the Israeli embassy in Washington DC.

There is footage as it was live streamed, not posting it here.

 

[Mofra]

How would they return hostages safely, when Israel shoots anything that waves a white flag?

Do you think a UN peacekeeping force should be deployed, for example?

Prisoner swap with 3rd party monitors would be the safest I imagine.

There are thousands of Palestinians in prison for very minor offenses, many not receiving legal representation. Many from the West Bank too.